Vortex heads

[Jsieger89]

doing a budget build and lookin to slap some vortex heads on my 87... My question is will the vortex heads fit ok on my 87 throdelbody 350? also any one recommend something different for some budget heads
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[INSIDIOUS '86]

Tbi intake will not fit the heads. You will need an aftermarket intake many other heads that are good an cheap. But not as good as the one two punch vortecs put out with price an performance
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[Ziegelsteinfaust]

Scogin Dickey has a Vortec TBI manifold.

When I swap my engine in my truck it will likely be a Vortec 350, but maybe a Buick 455.

[king-918]

I built one, haven't ran it yet. But for the most part when it comes to 350s heads are heads but the intake should not be switched
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[king-918]

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[bk2life]

Originally Posted by Jsieger89

doing a budget build

what is your budget?

[BigBlocksRule]

You won't gain a ton with Vortec heads, it won't be a night-and-day difference. The TBI heads actually out-torque Vortecs to about 3500rpm...they're a better choice for a low rev daily driver type engine, believe it or else! No special $300 intake, no throttle and kickdown brackets to fab/tweak. If you can find some old double humps, etc. for cheap, they're a good consideration as well. You'll need to tweak the center holes in your intake, but it'll bolt up.
Vortecs are good heads, but if you're on a budget, either stick with what you have or use some older stuff, IMHO. Use your savings for headers or a cam.

[Jsieger89]

No hard number for the budget just kinda buying it all a poece at a time! I do plan on changing the intake any way so that's not really a problem for me! my plan. If you will cam and intake I have hooker headers part number 2451-1hkr debating on a y pipe or true dual exhaust... also debating on weather to use a high flow cat or no cat at all idk whitch would be better I'm not worried about emmisions... new spectra air cleaner high flow, heads are up for debate also, plan on buying a modded throdelbody body from these guys http://www.rvmorsemachine.com/alredy have 373 and Mabey one day add a 2000 stall converter in there but it sounds like I should go with double hump heads in sted of vortex... also should I stay away from roller rockers? I don't want something unreliable and that has to b adjusted! also do the pistons not need an upgrade?
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[kalbert]

At one time I had built a motor that was a ring and bearing job with used Vortec heads, a crazy expensive TBI -> Vortec manifold, and the same cam in the GMPP 350/330 motor, and $89 Summit headers. The manifold cost more than everything else combined I think. I don't have any actual dyno numbers for it, however it did move the car pretty good, much better than the wheezing motor that was in it, and I was satisfied. I don't expect it was 330HP like the GMPP motor, but it could have been close to 300 I would guess. The bottle neck was most certainly the TBI and the tune of the computer.

[Jonboy]

Instead of using the SDPP TBI intake, bow about a regular Vortec intake and a TBI adapter?

[Ziegelsteinfaust]

You can't use an adapter as the Vortec use's mpfi.

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Tbi heads will work better on low rpm low compression engines in which they were designed. After 3500 rpm they are dogs the vortec will lose only a few ftlbs torque down low on the same engine but will run stronger all the way through the rpm. On a higher compression engine the vortecs kill tbi heads.
350hp and 430ftlbs torque is an average strength for a mild vortec build. The same engine but replaced with camel humps is about 330 hp and 390ftlbs

So the real question is how do you plan to buil the engine? TBI in my opinion will never let an engine see better than 250hp cause after that its a restriction and never built for performance. Sure people have done better but supercharging your lawn mower is the same thing really
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[junkman8302]

Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS '86

TBI in my opinion will never let an engine see better than 250hp cause after that its a restriction and never built for performance. Sure people have done better but supercharging your lawn mower is the same thing really

^Hahahaha!! Your right! I built a nice 305 out of a Camaro for one of my old trucks and it took a ton of tuning and testing and messing around to get it to run, let alone make 290 hp. I was pretty impressed until it spun a main bearing a few hours after I got it running right!

[kalbert]

Originally Posted by Ziegelsteinfaust

You can't use an adapter as the Vortec use's mpfi.

I think Jonboy meant to use a square bore intake for Vortec heads and use a TBI to square bore adapter. Not a bad idea actually, might save a few bucks though the square bore intakes for vortec heads aren't cheap either compared to their standard head counterparts!

[Jonboy]

Originally Posted by kalbert

I think Jonboy meant to use a square bore intake for Vortec heads and use a TBI to square bore adapter. Not a bad idea actually, might save a few bucks though the square bore intakes for vortec heads aren't cheap either compared to their standard head counterparts!

Yep. I thought the adapters used to ba a little cheaper, though. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-2200

[kalbert]

Yea, by the time you buy a square bore intake and an adapter you're pretty close to the cost of the TBI intake. Although, if you decide to change to a carb or some other EFI that bolts on a square bore intake some day maybe it makes more sense.

[king-918]

Why not just carb it?
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[Jsieger89]

I've never really thought bout it! I kinda like the fact that its the first year of fule injection... what is it about the tbi that keeps it from having the performance of a carb?
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[BigBlocksRule]

It has to do with vacuum, among other things. TBI doesn't like even moderate size cams that knock vacuum down since that's what it senses and bases it's computations off of. It's fine with a mild/RV type cam. EFI never washes the cylinder walls down and cuts cylinder wear to nil. Swap your wiring harness and computer for about $400 and you'll be able to run a 4L80E tranny and tow in overdrive...if the TBI engine can pull it that fast.

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Originally Posted by Jsieger89

I've never really thought bout it! I kinda like the fact that its the first year of fule injection... what is it about the tbi that keeps it from having the performance of a carb?
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It's two butterflies and to injectors are small. And it doesn't flow well. Computer engines don't like big cams as the knock sensor goes off like crazy retarding your timing. It really is only designed for mileage like alot of things back then. And it's very expensive to mod it to work with higher power.
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[tsmith]

Vortec heads give you 80 bolt on horse power, Vortec heads require a different intake that the bolts go straight down, tbi bolts are about a 30 degree angle. I had a 350, Vortec heads and a comp 274 extreme energy cam in a 84 swb, would eat up a Lt1 Z28 for lunch with bad tires

[Jsieger89]

Just wanted to note that I planed on upgrading fule pump Mabey bigger injectors and upgrade the throdelbody from the guys at www.tbiparts.com... will these mods help with the handeycap of the throdelbody???
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[INSIDIOUS '86]

They will help but uprgrading to a better injection system will be cheaper and better in the long run
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[Jsieger89]

what kind of injecting systems would you recommend? how many different options are they
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[BigBlocksRule]

Originally Posted by tsmith

Vortec heads give you 80 bolt on horse power

Sorry, buddy, but I gotta call BS on this one.
Maybe 20 over TBI, but not anywhere near 80. GM advertised a little over 20hp gain when they introduced the Vortec head.
Now if we're talking AFR's, you might be right.