Updating front cross member.

[First c10]

Can anyone tell me the benefit of updating the front cross member from a 1970 to a 73-80? I have seen a few people saying they updated from 67-72 to the newer style 73-80. What is the reason and benefit?
I have a chance to get a good front member but wondering if it is work it. Or not.
Thanks
Scott
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[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by First c10

Can anyone tell me the benefit of updating the front cross member from a 1970 to a 73-80? I have seen a few people saying they updated from 67-72 to the newer style 73-80. What is the reason and benefit?
I have a chance to get a good front member but wondering if it is work it. Or not.
Thanks
Scott
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Main thing is disk brakes. Parts are a little easier to find and sometimes cheaper also. It is pretty much a bolt in deal.

LockDoc

[b.eddy's72]

DO IT..................I did my daughters 66 Stepside and Im about to do my 67 3/4 ton. I put a 84 1/2 ton under the 66 and have 87 3/4 ton for the 67. Its a pretty much bolt in deal having to enlarge a couple of holes. Ive heard on this site that you can also leave the factory crossmember and use just the upper and lower control arms from the later model and gain the disk brakes that way.

[C10_ustacould]

I did this upgrade and have some advice. Do not swap the crossmember, just the 73-87 suspension parts. The suspension parts will fit just fine. This will allow you to use CPPs "conversion" front brake hoses coupled with the factory drum hard lines. Your original crossmember has brackets for the brake hoses that the 73-87 don't, plus you won't have to fight wit removing it or your drive-train.

[lolife99]

Originally Posted by BucksSS

I did this upgrade and have some advice.
Do not swap the crossmember, just the 73-87 suspension parts. The suspension parts will fit just fine. This will allow you to use CPPs "conversion" front brake hoses coupled with the factory drum hard lines. Your original crossmember has brackets for the brake hoses that the 73-87 don't, plus you won't have to fight wit removing it or your drive-train.

X2
X2
X2
Can't say that enough!

[PanelDeland]

Just a FYI.If you do the coversion with aConrtrol arms,you can get 6 lug rotors.This will save you from having 5 front 6 rear.Or you can swap rear for a 5 lug.

[gearboxx70]

The previous owner of my '67 Burb did this with running gear from a '78 1/2 ton. He swapped over the rear end too (for 5 lugs all the way around and better gear ratio). I have to say, if it were my project in the first place, I would've gone with just the control arms in the front. I say this not because of the brake hose clips, but all the other parts involved. I just found my ball joints are waaaaaaayyyy past shot, as well as a few other parts. If I had done the swap, I would've checked all these parts so they could be replaced during the swap since it would all be apart anyway. Yes, my truck is old. But the "new" parts are 35 years old too.
Since we're on the subject... Which sway bar would I use for the front? The one for a '67, or the one for a '78? My truck doesn't have one, but I'd like to put one on.

[stsalvage]

only problem I've seen using the 1973--87 is your A arms most can't put the bushings in your self the 1964-72 they are all screw in bushings.That you you can do in your own drive way by your self and a little cheaper.other then that.every thing is the same.One last thing try and have your old steering box rebuilt it has more turning radius.then the ones you get from the parts where house.means sharper turns

[First c10]

Is the 73-87 better? I mean with the rubber mounted a arms. I get that the updated parts are easier to get. I plan to rebuild the front end anyways. If it is just the same to rebuild the 70 as to rebuild the 73-87. I might as well rebuild the 70. I plan to put disks no matter which way I go. So the reason asked. Is it just the parts are cheaper? And or more available?

I was told that it was not really an upgrade by Stan at early classic. Just going for one kind to another. He said the only reason GM went to the rubber bushing was to save money. One thing I have to say is my 56 chevy Belair had rubber A arm bushings so why did gm go to metal sleeves on the trucks to 73?

I don't want to do the work on the 73-80 hd front. if there is no real benefit.
Just a little confused
Thanks for the comments. I appreciate it

Scott
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[b.eddy's72]

Originally Posted by First c10

Is the 73-87 better? I mean with the rubber mounted a arms. I get that the updated parts are easier to get. I plan to rebuild the front end anyways. If it is just the same to rebuild the 70 as to rebuild the 73-87. I might as well rebuild the 70. I plan to put disks no matter which way I go. So the reason asked. Is it just the parts are cheaper? And or more available?

I was told that it was not really an upgrade by Stan at early classic. Just going for one kind to another. He said the only reason GM went to the rubber bushing was to save money. One thing I have to say is my 56 chevy Belair had rubber A arm bushings so why did gm go to metal sleeves on the trucks to 73?

I don't want to do the work on the 73-80 hd front. if there is no real benefit.
Just a little confused
Thanks for the comments. I appreciate it

Scott
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You can get all the items to convert to disk brakes and retain all the other factory parts if thats what you want but poeple do the later model swap because you can get a complete set up for about $600 cheaper than the kit. My opinion...............get a front from a 80's, replace the bushings, swap it out, and have disk brakes. My 72 has factory disk brakes so I will leave it factory but my 66 is done wit a 84 and my 67 3/4 ton is about to be done with a 87 3/4 ton front. I feel better with the disk brakes.

[lolife99]

Originally Posted by b.eddy's72

You can get all the items to convert to disk brakes and retain all the other factory parts if thats what you want but poeple do the later model swap because you can get a complete set up for about $600 cheaper than the kit. My opinion...............get a front from a 80's, replace the bushings, swap it out, and have disk brakes. My 72 has factory disk brakes so I will leave it factory but my 66 is done wit a 84 and my 67 3/4 ton is about to be done with a 87 3/4 ton front. I feel better with the disk brakes.

Not sure how it can be $600 cheaper.
The ENTIRE front end should be rebuilt.
Not just the bushings,... but also the ball joints, tie rods (inner and outer), pitman arm and idler arm.
I also have a hard time believeing there are ANY 73-87 donor truck crossmembers that can be installed in their "as found" condition.
Unless removed from a low miles truck.
Otherwise you are replacing "worn out" drum brake parts,... for "worn out" disc brake parts..

The reason I don't like the 73-87 crossmember swap is the engine frame stands.
The 73-87 frames are slightly taller.
You either have to install a spacer on the frame stand or redrill the lower hole so it will fit the 63-72 frame rail height.

Plus it's not necessary, in my opinion, to swap the crossmember itself.

The people that like this swap,... aren't disassembling everything and rebuilding.
That why they like the total crossmember swap.

Some of the early (60-62?) trucks NEED to have a crossmember swapped in to allow the use of the later lower a-arm attachment points.
In that case I would use a 63-72 crossmember.

Just my opinion,...

[First c10]

My reasoning for inquiring about this was I can get all the parts ready to swap out. Completely rebuild the 73-87 front and then on a weekend just rip out the 70 stuiff and install the 79 stuff(the one found is out of a 79 with 1 1/4" hd rotors) I am thinking on keeping my crossmember and just adding the newer components. Did anyone notice the ride diiferent or change in vibration from the rubber bushed A arms from stock?

[b.eddy's72]

As you can tell your gonna get 100 different opinions which is what they are opinions. I have checked the difference in rebuilding both and can build the later model cheaper with new parts from my supplier. If you can get the rebuilt front cheap enough go for it and be done no matter if you swap the entire crossmemebr or just the arms and brakes you will improve your truck and I think that is your bottom line if I am correct.

[First c10]

Opinions are what I want. We all have ideas in our head son what we think we want so if someone has did it that way and if it worked that's what I like about this forum.

Ok great info guys I probably will pick it up today. The guy want $50 bucks.
Scott
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[gearboxx70]

I think the popularity of this swap comes down to simplicity and cost. The '73-'87 trucks can be found as parts trucks for just pennies. I've seen them on craigslist for free, "just get it out of my yard". I just sold a poorly running '87 half ton for $500 a couple months ago! Yes, everything should be rebuilt, and all parts checked and replaced as needed. I can tell you from experience, the drum to disc swap makes a HUGE difference in drivability. Recently did it on my '69 Nova. I also replaced all the worn parts as I did the swap. I probably saved a few hundred dollars by using later model parts that I got for cheap and replacing the worn parts. Yes, I would have loved to use all new parts, but budget was a serious concern. I made it work, and made it safe all at once. I guess it all comes down to what you want to spend, and your skill levels with the parts replacement.

[First c10]

Well I picked it up, whether I use it or not. If not I will try and resell. I am going to weigh if i ise it or not on the cost to rebuild and update the 70 verse the 79 and determine it that way since my labor is the same.

How hard is it to get out te stock rubber bushings? Do I need a press? If so. I guess I will have to by a new tool!!!!
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[gearboxx70]

I haven't done the bushings myself, but the purchase of a new tool is always a winning situation for me! (I'm a bit of a tool whore.) Either way, look into the cost of all the replacement parts for both (ball joints, etc. for the late model, and the same parts plus the brake upgrade for the '70). Weigh all your options and kill a bunch of time online comparing prices for all the parts you need. Since you'll have it all apart either way, might as well replace everything could even be questionable. You'll be happy you did when the truck is back on the road.
FYI... I have to change out my ball joints and idler arm since the previous owner didn't change out anything when he swapped over to the '78 front crossmember. Just got upper and lower ball joints and idler arm from rockauto.com for less than $140 shipped. (Moog brand)

[First c10]

Ok so the pursuit of the cost difference of the 2 front ends. I will try and give you all what come up with
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[First c10]

Ok can anyone tell me if the front coil springs for a 67-72 are the same as the 73-82. I have seen conflicting information?
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[lolife99]

Same

[First c10]

Thanks for the info Keith
I am wanting to just upgrade all the components to 73-82 style and still keep the 6lug. I just got the front crossmember unloaded. I would like to buy all the new parts and just do a swap out with the 70 in with the 79 stuff. Since I am going to get new bushings. What is the best? Moog originals or after market graphite poly?
Next question I have is the spindles. If I want to keep it stock height for now. And later add drop spindles/springs can I do that or will I have to change anything else besides the spindles?
Thanks
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[lolife99]

Originally Posted by First c10

Thanks for the info Keith
I am wanting to just upgrade all the components to 73-82 style and still keep the 6lug. I just got the front crossmember unloaded. I would like to buy all the new parts and just do a swap out with the 70 in with the 79 stuff. Since I am going to get new bushings. What is the best? Moog originals or after market graphite poly?
Next question I have is the spindles. If I want to keep it stock height for now. And later add drop spindles/springs can I do that or will I have to change anything else besides the spindles?
Thanks
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I would use Moog parts.
Look and shop online for great deals.

You can use stock height spindles and change later,... but it will cost you another front end alignment at that time.

Myself,... I would just wait until you can do it all at one time.
$209 will buy you new drop spindles.
That's the cheapest I have found.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cl...1979/model/c10

[First c10]

Ok thanks I will check it out. The problem with lowering it now is I will have to get new tires. The PO put 31-10.50's on it. But I agree about doing things twice.
Thanks for the help.
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[eldogg]

I would use polyurethane bushings when you rebuild your control arms. I have used both rubber and poly and the poly are WAY Easier to install. Enjoy your new press.
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[eagleuh1]

What would I "have" to replace on a 68 C20 to get disk brakes up front. I know I'll need the disk master and proportioning valve, spindles and rotors. As far as the suspension parts go, what needs replaced? Kinda confused from the drum to disk sticky in post 22. Prefer not to replace the crossmember since I have a 5.3 mounted in already and its close already. Can I use the 68 power steering box?