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#1 |
Registered User
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Location: Los Banos CA
Posts: 2,705
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Updating front cross member.
Can anyone tell me the benefit of updating the front cross member from a 1970 to a 73-80? I have seen a few people saying they updated from 67-72 to the newer style 73-80. What is the reason and benefit?
I have a chance to get a good front member but wondering if it is work it. Or not. Thanks Scott Posted via Mobile Device
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1956 Chevy Bel Air 2 door 1956 Chevy 210 4 Door 1970 K20 LWB project the Hulk build w/Supercharged 4.8L-ly2/4L60E HULK BUILD 1970 C10 Yellow/White Deluxe LWB w/ 5.3L-LC9/6L80E 1968 K10 LWB Dark green my son calls it "THE HULK Jr"HULK JR *SOLD* GO ![]() |
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#2 | |
The Older Generation
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Location: Montezuma, Iowa
Posts: 25,483
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Re: Updating front cross member.
Quote:
Main thing is disk brakes. Parts are a little easier to find and sometimes cheaper also. It is pretty much a bolt in deal. LockDoc
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Leon Locksmith, Specializing In Antique Trucks, Automobiles, & Motorcycles (My Dually Pickup Project Thread) http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=829820 - |
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#3 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: WEATHEROFRD, TX
Posts: 164
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Re: Updating front cross member.
DO IT..................I did my daughters 66 Stepside and Im about to do my 67 3/4 ton. I put a 84 1/2 ton under the 66 and have 87 3/4 ton for the 67. Its a pretty much bolt in deal having to enlarge a couple of holes. Ive heard on this site that you can also leave the factory crossmember and use just the upper and lower control arms from the later model and gain the disk brakes that way.
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72 Chevy LB, LS in the works, 4L80, Grandfather bought it brand new. 66 GMC Short Step, 84 Front Suspension, many more mods to come 67 Chevy 3/4 Ton, 327, Auto, Factory A/C Ya must have been movin cause I was haulin a*$ when I passed you |
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#4 |
A day late and $1 short...
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northwest FL
Posts: 3,870
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Re: Updating front cross member.
I did this upgrade and have some advice. Do not swap the crossmember, just the 73-87 suspension parts. The suspension parts will fit just fine. This will allow you to use CPPs "conversion" front brake hoses coupled with the factory drum hard lines. Your original crossmember has brackets for the brake hoses that the 73-87 don't, plus you won't have to fight wit removing it or your drive-train.
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Buck Instagram: C10_ustacould 1963 SWB Fleet Side 528 Desert Beige Milly 1967 SWB Step Side 506 Medium Blue The Old Girl 1968 SWB Fleet Side 503 Light Green Ellie SOLD 1965 SWB Fleet Side 507 Light Blue Prescription Strength SOLD 1971 SWB Fleet Side 521 White Shiro SOLD 1968 SWB Step Side 503 Light Green My Old Farm Truck SOLD |
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#5 | |
67-72 parts collector,…
![]() Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mid-MO
Posts: 22,698
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Re: Updating front cross member.
Quote:
X2 X2 Can't say that enough!
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Keith Convert to disc brakes. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=444823 |
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#6 |
I am a Referee of life.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Greensboro N.C.
Posts: 13,993
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Re: Updating front cross member.
Just a FYI.If you do the coversion with aConrtrol arms,you can get 6 lug rotors.This will save you from having 5 front 6 rear.Or you can swap rear for a 5 lug.
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The 47-present Chevrolet and GMC Truck Message Board Network,it's owners,moderators,members,and associates of any type should not be held responsible for my opinion. You can't fix stupid,not even with duct tape. "My appearance is due to the fact that "GOD" does punish you for having too much fun!" Barrett-Jackson has perfected alchemy,they make rust into gold! "You can lead a horse to water but you can't saddle a duck" "Cleverly disguised as a 'Responsible Adult' "Sometimes your Knight in shining armor is just a retard in tinfoil" |
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#7 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Grass Valley,CA
Posts: 85
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Re: Updating front cross member.
The previous owner of my '67 Burb did this with running gear from a '78 1/2 ton. He swapped over the rear end too (for 5 lugs all the way around and better gear ratio). I have to say, if it were my project in the first place, I would've gone with just the control arms in the front. I say this not because of the brake hose clips, but all the other parts involved. I just found my ball joints are waaaaaaayyyy past shot, as well as a few other parts. If I had done the swap, I would've checked all these parts so they could be replaced during the swap since it would all be apart anyway. Yes, my truck is old. But the "new" parts are 35 years old too.
Since we're on the subject... Which sway bar would I use for the front? The one for a '67, or the one for a '78? My truck doesn't have one, but I'd like to put one on. |
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#8 |
Scrapper 1
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Riverside Calif
Posts: 1,649
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only problem I've seen using the 1973--87 is your A arms most can't put the bushings in your self the 1964-72 they are all screw in bushings.That you you can do in your own drive way by your self and a little cheaper.other then that.every thing is the same.One last thing try and have your old steering box rebuilt it has more turning radius.then the ones you get from the parts where house.means sharper turns
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#9 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Banos CA
Posts: 2,705
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Re: Updating front cross member.
Is the 73-87 better? I mean with the rubber mounted a arms. I get that the updated parts are easier to get. I plan to rebuild the front end anyways. If it is just the same to rebuild the 70 as to rebuild the 73-87. I might as well rebuild the 70. I plan to put disks no matter which way I go. So the reason asked. Is it just the parts are cheaper? And or more available?
I was told that it was not really an upgrade by Stan at early classic. Just going for one kind to another. He said the only reason GM went to the rubber bushing was to save money. One thing I have to say is my 56 chevy Belair had rubber A arm bushings so why did gm go to metal sleeves on the trucks to 73? I don't want to do the work on the 73-80 hd front. if there is no real benefit. Just a little confused Thanks for the comments. I appreciate it Scott Posted via Mobile Device
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1956 Chevy Bel Air 2 door 1956 Chevy 210 4 Door 1970 K20 LWB project the Hulk build w/Supercharged 4.8L-ly2/4L60E HULK BUILD 1970 C10 Yellow/White Deluxe LWB w/ 5.3L-LC9/6L80E 1968 K10 LWB Dark green my son calls it "THE HULK Jr"HULK JR *SOLD* GO ![]() |
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#10 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: WEATHEROFRD, TX
Posts: 164
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Re: Updating front cross member.
Quote:
You can get all the items to convert to disk brakes and retain all the other factory parts if thats what you want but poeple do the later model swap because you can get a complete set up for about $600 cheaper than the kit. My opinion...............get a front from a 80's, replace the bushings, swap it out, and have disk brakes. My 72 has factory disk brakes so I will leave it factory but my 66 is done wit a 84 and my 67 3/4 ton is about to be done with a 87 3/4 ton front. I feel better with the disk brakes.
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72 Chevy LB, LS in the works, 4L80, Grandfather bought it brand new. 66 GMC Short Step, 84 Front Suspension, many more mods to come 67 Chevy 3/4 Ton, 327, Auto, Factory A/C Ya must have been movin cause I was haulin a*$ when I passed you |
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#11 | |
67-72 parts collector,…
![]() Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mid-MO
Posts: 22,698
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Re: Updating front cross member.
Quote:
The ENTIRE front end should be rebuilt. Not just the bushings,... but also the ball joints, tie rods (inner and outer), pitman arm and idler arm. I also have a hard time believeing there are ANY 73-87 donor truck crossmembers that can be installed in their "as found" condition. Unless removed from a low miles truck. Otherwise you are replacing "worn out" drum brake parts,... for "worn out" disc brake parts.. The reason I don't like the 73-87 crossmember swap is the engine frame stands. The 73-87 frames are slightly taller. You either have to install a spacer on the frame stand or redrill the lower hole so it will fit the 63-72 frame rail height. Plus it's not necessary, in my opinion, to swap the crossmember itself. The people that like this swap,... aren't disassembling everything and rebuilding. That why they like the total crossmember swap. Some of the early (60-62?) trucks NEED to have a crossmember swapped in to allow the use of the later lower a-arm attachment points. In that case I would use a 63-72 crossmember. Just my opinion,...
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Keith Convert to disc brakes. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=444823 |
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#12 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Banos CA
Posts: 2,705
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Re: Updating front cross member.
My reasoning for inquiring about this was I can get all the parts ready to swap out. Completely rebuild the 73-87 front and then on a weekend just rip out the 70 stuiff and install the 79 stuff(the one found is out of a 79 with 1 1/4" hd rotors) I am thinking on keeping my crossmember and just adding the newer components. Did anyone notice the ride diiferent or change in vibration from the rubber bushed A arms from stock?
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1956 Chevy Bel Air 2 door 1956 Chevy 210 4 Door 1970 K20 LWB project the Hulk build w/Supercharged 4.8L-ly2/4L60E HULK BUILD 1970 C10 Yellow/White Deluxe LWB w/ 5.3L-LC9/6L80E 1968 K10 LWB Dark green my son calls it "THE HULK Jr"HULK JR *SOLD* GO ![]() |
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#13 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: WEATHEROFRD, TX
Posts: 164
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Re: Updating front cross member.
As you can tell your gonna get 100 different opinions which is what they are opinions. I have checked the difference in rebuilding both and can build the later model cheaper with new parts from my supplier. If you can get the rebuilt front cheap enough go for it and be done no matter if you swap the entire crossmemebr or just the arms and brakes you will improve your truck and I think that is your bottom line if I am correct.
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72 Chevy LB, LS in the works, 4L80, Grandfather bought it brand new. 66 GMC Short Step, 84 Front Suspension, many more mods to come 67 Chevy 3/4 Ton, 327, Auto, Factory A/C Ya must have been movin cause I was haulin a*$ when I passed you |
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#14 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Banos CA
Posts: 2,705
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Re: Updating front cross member.
Opinions are what I want. We all have ideas in our head son what we think we want so if someone has did it that way and if it worked that's what I like about this forum.
Ok great info guys I probably will pick it up today. The guy want $50 bucks. Scott Posted via Mobile Device
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1956 Chevy Bel Air 2 door 1956 Chevy 210 4 Door 1970 K20 LWB project the Hulk build w/Supercharged 4.8L-ly2/4L60E HULK BUILD 1970 C10 Yellow/White Deluxe LWB w/ 5.3L-LC9/6L80E 1968 K10 LWB Dark green my son calls it "THE HULK Jr"HULK JR *SOLD* GO ![]() |
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#15 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Grass Valley,CA
Posts: 85
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Re: Updating front cross member.
I think the popularity of this swap comes down to simplicity and cost. The '73-'87 trucks can be found as parts trucks for just pennies. I've seen them on craigslist for free, "just get it out of my yard". I just sold a poorly running '87 half ton for $500 a couple months ago! Yes, everything should be rebuilt, and all parts checked and replaced as needed. I can tell you from experience, the drum to disc swap makes a HUGE difference in drivability. Recently did it on my '69 Nova. I also replaced all the worn parts as I did the swap. I probably saved a few hundred dollars by using later model parts that I got for cheap and replacing the worn parts. Yes, I would have loved to use all new parts, but budget was a serious concern. I made it work, and made it safe all at once. I guess it all comes down to what you want to spend, and your skill levels with the parts replacement.
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#16 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Banos CA
Posts: 2,705
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Re: Updating front cross member.
Well I picked it up, whether I use it or not. If not I will try and resell. I am going to weigh if i ise it or not on the cost to rebuild and update the 70 verse the 79 and determine it that way since my labor is the same.
How hard is it to get out te stock rubber bushings? Do I need a press? If so. I guess I will have to by a new tool!!!! ![]() Posted via Mobile Device
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1956 Chevy Bel Air 2 door 1956 Chevy 210 4 Door 1970 K20 LWB project the Hulk build w/Supercharged 4.8L-ly2/4L60E HULK BUILD 1970 C10 Yellow/White Deluxe LWB w/ 5.3L-LC9/6L80E 1968 K10 LWB Dark green my son calls it "THE HULK Jr"HULK JR *SOLD* GO ![]() |
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#17 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Grass Valley,CA
Posts: 85
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Re: Updating front cross member.
I haven't done the bushings myself, but the purchase of a new tool is always a winning situation for me! (I'm a bit of a tool whore.) Either way, look into the cost of all the replacement parts for both (ball joints, etc. for the late model, and the same parts plus the brake upgrade for the '70). Weigh all your options and kill a bunch of time online comparing prices for all the parts you need. Since you'll have it all apart either way, might as well replace everything could even be questionable. You'll be happy you did when the truck is back on the road.
FYI... I have to change out my ball joints and idler arm since the previous owner didn't change out anything when he swapped over to the '78 front crossmember. Just got upper and lower ball joints and idler arm from rockauto.com for less than $140 shipped. (Moog brand) |
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#18 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Banos CA
Posts: 2,705
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Re: Updating front cross member.
Ok so the pursuit of the cost difference of the 2 front ends. I will try and give you all what come up with
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1956 Chevy Bel Air 2 door 1956 Chevy 210 4 Door 1970 K20 LWB project the Hulk build w/Supercharged 4.8L-ly2/4L60E HULK BUILD 1970 C10 Yellow/White Deluxe LWB w/ 5.3L-LC9/6L80E 1968 K10 LWB Dark green my son calls it "THE HULK Jr"HULK JR *SOLD* GO ![]() |
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#19 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Banos CA
Posts: 2,705
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Re: Updating front cross member.
Ok can anyone tell me if the front coil springs for a 67-72 are the same as the 73-82. I have seen conflicting information?
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1956 Chevy Bel Air 2 door 1956 Chevy 210 4 Door 1970 K20 LWB project the Hulk build w/Supercharged 4.8L-ly2/4L60E HULK BUILD 1970 C10 Yellow/White Deluxe LWB w/ 5.3L-LC9/6L80E 1968 K10 LWB Dark green my son calls it "THE HULK Jr"HULK JR *SOLD* GO ![]() |
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#20 |
67-72 parts collector,…
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Location: Mid-MO
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Re: Updating front cross member.
Same
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Keith Convert to disc brakes. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=444823 |
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#21 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Los Banos CA
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Re: Updating front cross member.
Thanks for the info Keith
I am wanting to just upgrade all the components to 73-82 style and still keep the 6lug. I just got the front crossmember unloaded. I would like to buy all the new parts and just do a swap out with the 70 in with the 79 stuff. Since I am going to get new bushings. What is the best? Moog originals or after market graphite poly? Next question I have is the spindles. If I want to keep it stock height for now. And later add drop spindles/springs can I do that or will I have to change anything else besides the spindles? Thanks Posted via Mobile Device
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1956 Chevy Bel Air 2 door 1956 Chevy 210 4 Door 1970 K20 LWB project the Hulk build w/Supercharged 4.8L-ly2/4L60E HULK BUILD 1970 C10 Yellow/White Deluxe LWB w/ 5.3L-LC9/6L80E 1968 K10 LWB Dark green my son calls it "THE HULK Jr"HULK JR *SOLD* GO ![]() |
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#22 | |
67-72 parts collector,…
![]() Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Mid-MO
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Re: Updating front cross member.
Quote:
Look and shop online for great deals. You can use stock height spindles and change later,... but it will cost you another front end alignment at that time. Myself,... I would just wait until you can do it all at one time. $209 will buy you new drop spindles. That's the cheapest I have found. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cl...1979/model/c10
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Keith Convert to disc brakes. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=444823 |
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#23 |
Registered User
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Location: Los Banos CA
Posts: 2,705
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Re: Updating front cross member.
Ok thanks I will check it out. The problem with lowering it now is I will have to get new tires. The PO put 31-10.50's on it. But I agree about doing things twice.
Thanks for the help. Posted via Mobile Device
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1956 Chevy Bel Air 2 door 1956 Chevy 210 4 Door 1970 K20 LWB project the Hulk build w/Supercharged 4.8L-ly2/4L60E HULK BUILD 1970 C10 Yellow/White Deluxe LWB w/ 5.3L-LC9/6L80E 1968 K10 LWB Dark green my son calls it "THE HULK Jr"HULK JR *SOLD* GO ![]() |
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#24 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mooresville NC/Gainesville GA
Posts: 499
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Re: Updating front cross member.
I would use polyurethane bushings when you rebuild your control arms. I have used both rubber and poly and the poly are WAY Easier to install. Enjoy your new press.
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#25 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Russellville, Arkansas
Posts: 1,699
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Re: Updating front cross member.
What would I "have" to replace on a 68 C20 to get disk brakes up front. I know I'll need the disk master and proportioning valve, spindles and rotors. As far as the suspension parts go, what needs replaced? Kinda confused from the drum to disk sticky in post 22. Prefer not to replace the crossmember since I have a 5.3 mounted in already and its close already. Can I use the 68 power steering box?
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