I need a little schooling on manual transmissions

[70c10stepside]

One day, I would like to go 5-6 six speed. What are my options? I need od. Right now the truck has a th400 with 4.11 gears. Its about to be my dd. The motor is pushing 400-500 horse, and it is a small block. When ever I can do this, I'd like to keep it as low budget and simple as possible. From the way i am able to take it, it still has manual peddle assembly, as it use to have a Muncie 4 speed, but my father swaped that over in the early 90s. He just, cut out the clutch peddle.. The main reason I am wanting the swap, is to have it back to a standard shift. Doesnt have to be any close gear ratio or anything special.. Just, something to drive

[Roostboy102]

NV4500 out of a 2500 Chevy truck. They are truck transmissions though... But from your horsepower and budget standpoint that's probably best option. Or, like everyone else will suggest, bite the bullet and get a tremec tko right away.
Posted via Mobile Device

[70STOVEBOLT]

NV4500 won't hold up to the torque you are putting out. They used them in Dodge trucks in the 90's and even with a stock engine they were failing. The overdrive gear retaining nut would back off and you would lose 5th gear. There was a redesign on the mainshaft but it didn't fix the problem, the nut would still come loose. I would say TKO or Richmond would be your best option. Not the least expensive option, but if you are pushing 500 hp you will need something that can take it.

[Rastis]

Take a look at Tremec TKO 600 that should work well for you. I'm running that setup in a 500+ HP Cobra
Posted via Mobile Device

[Longhorn 70]

ZF6 Black label. They are a bit noisy if you get the early one. They have square cut gears but will handle 500 lb/ft of torque....Ask how I know this.

[Ol Blue K20]

Originally Posted by Longhorn 70

ZF6 Black label. They are a bit noisy if you get the early one. They have square cut gears but will handle 500 lb/ft of torque....Ask how I know this.

OK... I give up, how do you know

[Billett]

there is no budget friendly way to get a 5-6 speed manual for these unless you go for the nv4500 or t5, but those won't handle the power you have unless you baby it.

[Longhorn 70]

From ZF's web site:

Transmission type: S 6-650
Input torque max.: 720 Nm (Ft. Lbs. 520)

(Reference value: depending on vehicle data
and application conditions)

Standard ratios Gear:
1: 5.79
2: 3.30
3: 2.10
4: 1.31
5: 1.00
6: 0.72
R: 5.23
Weight without auxiliary: 106.5kg (235 lbs)
Oil quantity: 6.0dm3 (5.8 Qts.)
Oil grade as per ZF List of Lubricants: TE-ML 02;
specification acc. to vehicle manufacturers instructions
Installation Longitudinal with shift output for left or right-hand drive vehicles

These units have a smaller gear set for gas engines so the ft/lbs rating is probably closer to 450 on gassers. Also, from what I've read about these ZF transmission, there is usually a 20% safety margin built in to them so they could handle 624 ft/lbs.

[Billett]

t-56 is probably still cheaper than that and parts are everywhere

[Rastis]

The ZF-6's were used behind the Duramax diesels.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Billett]

they were also used in corvette c4's though

[Longhorn 70]

The Corvette ones are a little different. They have 2 overdrive gears, 5 and 6. The ZF6-650 has only one.

Billet you are right. I guess I missed the part about "low budget".

[Billett]

not a big deal. I wish it were cheap though. I want to do the same thing, but I've resigned myself to saving up for the tko or t56 magnum. I'm also considering the 6l80 simply because many of them come with lq4's attached

[SS Tim]

Some things come to mind here. First the motor numbers seem to be a WAG based on previous posts. Second the truck is drivable now so maybe a gear/axle swap might be the best initial step for a sixteen year old. If he does want a manual, what parts does he have left? Was the truck originally a manual or automatic truck? Does it still have the bell housing crossmember or clutch z-bar and linkage? Maybe a MY6 or MM7 four speed O/D would be a good choice that someone has laying around.

[Billett]

Didn't realize he was 16. Keep the th400 and the 4.11s, it'll keep you out of trouble.

[70c10stepside]

Thanks everyone for the input.

And who cares if I'm 16? Really?lol Kinda, funny... Always brought up. If you knew my past in driving, you'd no I am responsible. But, hey. This is society today. I'm told by everyone I drive like an old man.

I have Looked a little more into things, and I am a slow driver. So I'll probably save for a tremec tko500 and just do it right.
Posted via Mobile Device

[jocko]

Originally Posted by Billett

Didn't realize he was 16. Keep the th400 and the 4.11s, it'll keep you out of trouble.

I seem to remember when anything with 4.11s could get you into trouble..

Originally Posted by 70c10stepside

Thanks everyone for the input.

And who cares if I'm 16? Really?lol Kinda, funny... Always brought up. If you knew my past in driving, you'd no I am responsible. But, hey. This is society today. I'm told by everyone I drive like an old man.

I have Looked a little more into things, and I am a slow driver. So I'll probably save for a tremec tko500 and just do it right.
Posted via Mobile Device

70c10 - you just keep on drivin slow, I haven't heard a 16 y/o say anything that responsible in years... Good on ya.

Having said that, however - I agree, 5or6speed + 500hp = not on a budget

[Hezie]

Also take a look at the Richmond 6 speed I love my 5 speed but it's not a true od like a 6.

[Billett]

Originally Posted by 70c10stepside

Thanks everyone for the input.

And who cares if I'm 16? Really?lol Kinda, funny... Always brought up. If you knew my past in driving, you'd no I am responsible. But, hey. This is society today. I'm told by everyone I drive like an old man.

I have Looked a little more into things, and I am a slow driver. So I'll probably save for a tremec tko500 and just do it right.
Posted via Mobile Device

Because saying it and doing it are two different things, trust me. One day you'll get the itch to put the pedal down and I honestly hope you don't hurt yourself with that much power. I had plenty of practice driving vehicles before I got on the road also, but things happen. If you didn't want to go fast you wouldn't have 500 horses, you'd have a camry. I won't bring up your age anymore, but in regards to the original post a t-56 or tko is your best option if you want the cheapest 5 or 6 speed. If all you really wanted was the manual, then why not go for a 4 speed? They are everywhere and are much cheaper.

[70c10stepside]

Originally Posted by jocko

I seem to remember when anything with 4.11s could get you into trouble..




70c10 - you just keep on drivin slow, I haven't heard a 16 y/o say anything that responsible in years... Good on ya.

Having said that, however - I agree, 5or6speed + 500hp = not on a budget

The 4.11 is interesting in the rain with the th400 lol And thanks sir.

Originally Posted by Hezie

Also take a look at the Richmond 6 speed I love my 5 speed but it's not a true od like a 6.

I'll check that out

Originally Posted by Billett

Because saying it and doing it are two different things, trust me. One day you'll get the itch to put the pedal down and I honestly hope you don't hurt yourself with that much power. I had plenty of practice driving vehicles before I got on the road also, but things happen. If you didn't want to go fast you wouldn't have 500 horses, you'd have a camry. I won't bring up your age anymore, but in regards to the original post a t-56 or tko is your best option if you want the cheapest 5 or 6 speed. If all you really wanted was the manual, then why not go for a 4 speed? They are everywhere and are much cheaper.

It may get a little abuse, on the back roads where I live. Simply because, there is no one around that I can hurt. And the little abuse it gets, is a little pull here and there. With 4 wheel drum brakes and stock suspension its nothing fast. And I have the truck due to tradition. Passed down to me. Was originally my grandmothers. Its always had a built motor. When she and then when dad had it, the truck had a 4 speed muncie. Are those strong enough? When dad started playing with big blocks, he swapped over to the th400. They have the same final gear, I believe? I was hoping for a little better final drive, but I typically drive back roads anyways so it doesn't really matter all to much. Could always throw in a different rear end I guess to make up the difference. Would be cool to have one in it, for the idea of thats what dad and my grandmother had in it.

Also, was originally 3 on the tree v8 truck.

[Billett]

3 on the tree would be great for nostalgia, but not so much for a DD. I run a 4 speed NP435 with a granny low. Once you get used to not having overdrive it really isn't terrible and I drive it for an hour at a time on the highway on my way back and forth to work. Check out this calculator. You can plug in your ratios and tire size to figure out what rpm you will be running at, just to make sure you don't push the engine too hard. If you click on the frame that says "calc" on the bottom it will come up with an empty table that you can fill in with a possible 6 gears. The numbers shown in this one are from my truck.

http://xse.com/leres/bin/gearratio?t...le=60&wheel=15

[70c10stepside]

Thanks for the calculator, what mpg are you averaging? Also, we have two 3 speeds that are manuals. I do not know a thing about them. I've considered one of those. If they have the same final gear and everything, I may just use those. I'm sure they need fully gone through. I just would like a third pedal lol Ill try and pull some numbers tomorrow
Posted via Mobile Device

[Billett]

Final ratio's will always be 1:1 unless you have overdrive. I drive slow as well because I drive the highway so much. I keep it to around 60mph the whole drive because the truck just feels like it isn't trying nearly as hard as when I get it to 70 or so, if that makes sense. If I drive it like that I get around 12 mpg, but that isn't accurate because my speedo is off, by a factor of 1.2, so when it says I'm doing 50 I'm actually going 60. Because of that I actually get more, just not sure how much.

Just for more info, I have a '68 with a stock 350, NP435, LWB fleetside, 3.73 open rear, and 275/60/15 tires.

[Billett]

Oh and not related to the topic,

Enjoy your truck! Everyone I know thinks I'm crazy for using a 45 year old truck as a DD, but trust me it will still make you smile every time you start it up for years to come!

[Lattimer]

Originally Posted by 70c10stepside

Thanks for the calculator, what mpg are you averaging? Also, we have two 3 speeds that are manuals. I do not know a thing about them. I've considered one of those. If they have the same final gear and everything, I may just use those. I'm sure they need fully gone through. I just would like a third pedal lol Ill try and pull some numbers tomorrow
Posted via Mobile Device

Don't do the 3-speed. You will regret it. I have one with a floor shift, and while it works fine, there is nothing fun about it. Mine is getting a 4-speed very soon. I have all the parts, just need to arrange for help to install it.

I'd rather do a 5 or 6 speed and have the overdrive, but the 4- speed was free.