Portable generators

[vectorit]

I have been thinking about getting a portable generator for the house.
What kinds of things should I look for, and or avoid while shopping?
Good brand names, and bad ones I should avoid.

I am thinking that LPG may be the best for running one, since I think storing gasoline in large containers would be out of the question for me. (Safety, and shelf life).

Basically what I want is a generator strong and durable enough to run minor house hold appliances, like a few lights, fans, TV, radio, charging phones, and possibly the refrigerator.

Would it be worthwhile to get a quote for an electrician to set up a connection for a generator to my house panel? Or would I be better off just using an extension cord and a power strip?

[Indian113]

We installed a generator on the farm for my elderly inlaws,we had to have one big enough to run a 220 volt deep well pump. We hired a electricion to install a bypass so that when it was on the electricity couldn't backfeed into the line.
I think they are a great idea if you need them,wife said maybe we ought to get one incase of outages. I said we already do!
She said "Where is it?" I pointed to our MH laughing I said it cost us enough I'll use it if need be.

[Restrorob]

Check out Generac's line of LP gen-sets, Their a top brand in the industry.....

http://www.generac.com/Portables/LPSeries/


Dang.... Gotta fix that pink user name !

[nate_g_2003]

Generac is hit or miss IMO. I would stay away from the GP series. Back in 2005, when Hurricane Rita hit, I was working at Grainger, and we sold a huge number of them (5000watts or so, can't remember exactly). We had a large number come back, due to a faulty part. So many, there was a line of them from one end of the warehouse to the other, two wide. Generac ponied up, and sent a tech to fix the problem (faulty internal part, maybe a volt reg, again I can't remember exactly). He spent a week or so repairing them all, if they had the problem. Some were brought back due to user error (wrong fuels, overloading, etc.)

I know that was 8 years ago, but I still shy away from Generac to this day, at least on portables. There's other brand out there I would buy. My parents bought a Briggs & Stratton, and have had great luck with it the few times they've needed it. Honda is a really reputable brand (albeit highly priced).

As for # of watts you need: go with at least a 6000 watt. That will give you plenty of power to run a few things at a time (Fridge/Freezer, fan, tv, lights, etc.) You don't have to run the fridge/freezer constantly, just long enough for it to run a full cycle.

LP is a great way to go, if gas storage is an issue. Remember too, people flock to gas stations in an emergency, so getting propane/LP MAY be easier. If your house is setup for natural gas, you could always get one that runs off natural gas.

As for the transfer switch, it's a nice feature to have, but not totally necessary, especially with portable units. A backup gen will require one.

If you opt out of a transfer switch, make sure your extension cords are heavy gauge, and rated for the number of amps you will run (15A is the minimum, 20-30A is better).

['63GENIII]

I've actually installed a few of the Generac natural gas set with the automatic transfer switch to the panel. Worked great never had a call back. If you are looking at portable, Honda is the best bet out there. Reliable, quiet and did I say quiet. They come with a hefty price tag IMO though. I had a Generac 6500 watt years ago and ran it for 8 days straight while power was out (backfed the house through a oven outlet). No problems. Years later, I bought another one, ran it for two hours and the generator literally exploded. A piece of it actually grazed my head! These days, I have an older Craftsman Industrial 10,000 watt. It is also made by Generac. I've given it a tuneup, and oil change that's it. Has close to 500 hrs. No issues and run real hard when it runs. If it were me, I'd buy a good used older one instead of one from HD or any of the big box stores. If youre going to connect it to your house, have an electrician install at a minimum a manual transfer switch so that you don't backfeed the utility or have you or your generator blown up when the power comes back on.

[vectorit]

There are natural gas ones?
That would be awesome if there was, since I have natural gas line from an old BBQ grill that has since been removed. The stub is still there, so I could use it for the generator?

I have a detached garage that is only about 15 paces from my back door, and it has an extended electrical panel inside. I would love to just have a manual bypass set up there, and the generator I could put somewhere on the back of the garage I suppose.

My area doesn't have crazy storms that knock out power, just times where the electrical grid takes a hit and is down all day or like last year for a few days in 100+ degree summer weather. When it is that hot, it is just about unbearable to be indoors without air movement from a fan.

Basically I am dreaming of something way overkill, but I like to be prepared in the best way I can.

['63GENIII]

Yeah, some of the ones that I've put in have been natural gas. I've put in a couple diesels with "day tanks" for residential too. These are not portable though. Just put a natural gas one in last year that put out @450 amps. It had a 2 or 2-1/2" gas line run to it. Whoever you buy the unit from will be able to give you the gas line size.. but then you're getting a plumber and an electrician into this. Either way you go, there has to be a transfer switch on the incoming wires or at the very least to the feeder wires going to the panel that you are connecting the genset to. You have to be able to eliminate any possibility of the generator and the utility power being connected to each other accidentally. I'ts a pretty easy job. I like the 10k watt gasser that I have. If you have some extra loot though, there are some real Cadillacs out there.

['63GENIII]

Just re read your OP and for the amount of power that youd be using, a 6k watt would probably be fine. I also think that youre looking at a permanent mounted one. The big one that I was talking about in the last post was a Generac. Kohler, Onan, Cat, Petersen, Volvo are just some of the ones that come to mind for NG. I know that the Onan's are $$$ but are some of the best. I'd do an online search of residential natural gas backup generators and see what comes up.

[vectorit]

Yea, I am leaning more towards a "semi" permanent generator now.
I don't ever see me moving the generator for something like camping or the like, so having one 99% dedicated to the house is more attractive to me right now.

Thanks for the input!

[johnnyclack]

Originally Posted by '63GENIII

Just re read your OP and for the amount of power that youd be using, a 6k watt would probably be fine. I also think that youre looking at a permanent mounted one. The big one that I was talking about in the last post was a Generac. Kohler, Onan, Cat, Petersen, Volvo are just some of the ones that come to mind for NG. I know that the Onan's are $$$ but are some of the best. I'd do an online search of residential natural gas backup generators and see what comes up.

This is good advice;

I live in the Oregon Cascades’ & lose power on average 4-5 times a year I have a portable 7500 watt generator that I use for backup.

Every time my power drops out I wish I had a permanent generator wired for an automatic switchover & startup. Close friends living down the river from me have an 10,000 watt Onan generator set up this way (not cheap) and it’s sweet. It self starts once a month and runs a maintenance cycle so it’s always ready to go. Same with most perm mounts brands

If the power drops while they are at work the generator kicks in and everything is good when they get home having had no interruptions, same for when the power comes back up. No gas lines where we live so it’s above ground propane tanks.

Honda generator rules the camping, hunting, & most construction site needs for remote use

[NONHOG]

I'm no electrician but have to wonder about the backfeed scare.
If you have a "main" switch turned OFF power wont backfeed. And you can use a double ended cord. I am not saying this is how it should be done but
If proper steps are taken.

1) NOBODY messes with the fuse box but me (Dad)
2) Have a list, steps to take in event of power coming back on and Dad (or Mom) is out of the area. Better yet refer to rule 1.

[truckdude239]

I'VE DONE A PRONPANE/LG GAS Conversion, that allows the gas generator to run on propane/ gas used the kits from us Carburetion,


http://www.uscarburetion.com/

[johnnyclack]

Originally Posted by NONHOG

I'm no electrician but have to wonder about the backfeed scare.
If you have a "main" switch turned OFF power wont backfeed. And you can use a double ended cord. I am not saying this is how it should be done but
If proper steps are taken.

1) NOBODY messes with the fuse box but me (Dad)
2) Have a list, steps to take in event of power coming back on and Dad (or Mom) is out of the area. Better yet refer to rule 1.

(Truth be known I do the same thing )

I recall hearing the concern for back feed is on the neutral side of the feed, which maintains the common ground.

In my area when the linemen drive up they can hear the all generators running and take the proper precautions for a live/hot system.

But an isolating switch is always a good idea, as I am sure we’ll soon hear about on this post

[100%Chevy]

I'd like to post a few of my views on generators-
To start,portable gen sets are PORTABLE!This means the are not to be connected directly to your house.Use extension cords only.Keep it far enough from your house to eliminate the possibility of carbon monoxide posioning!It must be outside(not even in the garage or porch).
As to protecting power company linemen-They can be very far away from heaing it running and won't know it's on-line until they find out the hard way.You cannot rely on someone remembering to not turn the switch off/on.
It takes about a 100 watt load to cause a portable gen set to go to high idle.This means you are using the same amount of fuel as if you were using all the wattage available,so get the size you need.Or else you're just wasting fuel.The cheap units run at high idle all the time wheather under load or not.6000 watt is a good size to have.Honda is the best by far!Worth the money and among the quietest on the market.
I've installed quite a few stand-by systems.They are expensive and are worth it if you live in an area like mine,where hurricanes are normal.A 10,000 watt unit will cost about $12,000 ready to use(depending on brand and options)!Propane is the best fuel here.Dual fuel (propane/diesel)is better.
Mine is a Lincoln Ranger 10,000 welder/generator.I use it for the house and in the off season,I can use it for welding.
Motorhome sets are of a good size and can be found reasonnably cheap used.These are mostly Onan or Kohler brands.
If you have any doubts about your electrical ability,please consult a qualified electrician!Cheap life insurance!
Mike.

[dwcsr]

If your going to use natural gas make sure the pipe you wanted to use is large enough. You may need a 1" pipe for that.

[JointTech]

we have a 25kw PTO drive generator on the farm. Must be 40 years old. Hook it up to the massey ferguson when the power goes out.
We keep 500 gallons of diesel on property.

['63GENIII]

The safety concern over backfeeding a utility line is VERY real if the genset is not connected properly. The only safe way to connect it to your home is through a transfer switch - either manual or automatic. They are a failsafe switch that will never let the generator be connected to the utility. Backfeed on the neutral isn't a concern since it is bonded to ground at your main panel. Gas line size is also a concern. I learned when installing a residential 100kw generator that a new high pressure gas line had to be run (by PG&E) otherwise when running, the genset would easily draw all of the gas out of the utility lines causing a gas outtage to the surrounding area. You're not needing anything that big, but gas service size is a factor nonetheless. As far as connecting a portable vs. stationary unit - In the 24 years of being an electrician, I've connected portable generators ranging in size from 5kw to a house for temorary power all the way up to a portable 1mw to a office building for standby power. The reasons, circumstances and costs usually determine what type of fuel, location and portability of the selected unit. There is a whole section in the NEC that lays out the rules for almost any of the situations. I would find a state certified electrician that has some good referrences to look at it for you. Feel free to bounce any ?s off me if you do end up installing one or talking to contractors about it. Chris

[68panelman]

I just spent the last hour looking at a natural gas Generac 5837 7000 watt home unit with transfer switch for $1861 shipped. My wife insists we need one more than ever now after the hurricane Sandy BS we went through and the occuring Blizzard we are dealing with at the moment. Read a ton of reviews on the product, nearly all were positive. We already have the gas utilities here in the home so thats a no-brainer.

['63GENIII]

That doesn't sound too bad. A good Honda gasser will set you back 2-4k.

[vectorit]

Originally Posted by 68panelman

I just spent the last hour looking at a natural gas Generac 5837 7000 watt home unit with transfer switch for $1861 shipped. My wife insists we need one more than ever now after the hurricane Sandy BS we went through and the occuring Blizzard we are dealing with at the moment. Read a ton of reviews on the product, nearly all were positive. We already have the gas utilities here in the home so thats a no-brainer.

Interesting... Care to share the link where you saw that deal?

[68panelman]

Just google the model and it should show up, Home depot, Northern, and some other equipment company had them all for the same price, $1861.