Transmission Nightmare 1961

[par4tom]

Some guys learn the hard way...like me! I ve been hunting around for weeks, Looking for an NP 440/MY 6 OD 4 speed transmission.

I let one get away on EBay because I saw a lot of posts about how cheap a lot of you guys were finding yours through various wrecking yards.

I had another through a transmission shop who said he had one. Turns out wrong bolt pattern and no tail housing.

Here's the deal, I need the aluminum case 4 speed od tranny out of the 81-87 Chevy trucks. Cast iron won't work because the bell housing I have won't accommodate the GM/Chrysler pattern. My bell housing MUST have the motor mounts built into it.

Can anybody tell me if there is another bellhousing that will accept the cast iron bolt pattern with the motor mounts? Or... Does anyone know where an aluminum case complete with shifter can be located?

I ve tried literally every wrecking yard and the cast iron ones are easy to find. Aluminum, they re like hens teeth.

And... I ve read thread after thread...I know what's needed, If I can just find a solution.

My 61 has horseshoe motor mount in the front, hydraulic clutch (thanks to Captain) and don't want to try and rig up a front motor mount, rear crossmember configuration.

Has anyone modified the cast iron version by welding and putting on the GM bolt pattern?

Signed,
Tom (Kingsburg CA)

PS - if anyone wants to find the cast iron versions, i ve found several of them and i can get you in touch with the sellers.

PPS- I should have bought the one on EBAY for $700...Kicking myself now!
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[MusicMan70]

http://nashville.craigslist.org/pts/3609255005.html

[MusicMan70]

Nevermind this has the Gm/Chrysler bolt pattern.

[par4tom]

Music,
I saw that. Thanks for looking out for me. I owe you one.
Tom
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[par4tom]

Hey guys, any ideas?
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[luvbowties]

Originally Posted by par4tom

Some guys learn the hard way...like me! I ve been hunting around for weeks, Looking for an NP 440/MY 6 OD 4 speed transmission.

I let one get away on EBay because I saw a lot of posts about how cheap a lot of you guys were finding yours through various wrecking yards.

I had another through a transmission shop who said he had one. Turns out wrong bolt pattern and no tail housing.

Here's the deal, I need the aluminum case 4 speed od tranny out of the 81-87 Chevy trucks. Cast iron won't work because the bell housing I have won't accommodate the GM/Chrysler pattern. My bell housing MUST have the motor mounts built into it.

Can anybody tell me if there is another bellhousing that will accept the cast iron bolt pattern with the motor mounts? Or... Does anyone know where an aluminum case complete with shifter can be located?

I ve tried literally every wrecking yard and the cast iron ones are easy to find. Aluminum, they re like hens teeth.

And... I ve read thread after thread...I know what's needed, If I can just find a solution.

My 61 has horseshoe motor mount in the front, hydraulic clutch (thanks to Captain) and don't want to try and rig up a front motor mount, rear crossmember configuration.

Has anyone modified the cast iron version by welding and putting on the GM bolt pattern?

Signed,
Tom (Kingsburg CA)

PS - if anyone wants to find the cast iron versions, i ve found several of them and i can get you in touch with the sellers.

PPS- I should have bought the one on EBAY for $700...Kicking myself now!
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Even knowing you stated you did not want to "try and rig one up": If--ONLY IF--your truck had side-engine mounts, instead of front horseshoe mount, AND a rear crossmember configuration, would your problem be solved?
Sam

[padresag]

is the problem of the bolt pattern or of the input bearing retainer not fitting?
ron

[Rich 5150 69]

Ron those trans were a reproduced version of the Mopar a-833 overdrive, in the early eighties they started putting them in the GM line, bellhousing specific was the only differance, you can also find them in the 4x4 trucks without the tail shaft, also the light duty diesels '79 to '86, if you happen to find a bell housing for the gm line, they ran the MY6 ( new process -440 ) trans in the dodge line to almost the 90's . Input bearing retainer being larger, input shaft longer, and trans bolt pattern larger. http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/...feature17.html
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[par4tom]

My problem would be solved BUT (and I am now the big BUTT of the neighborhood), that would require sourcing motormounts for a 61 (they would have to come off the frame), cutting out the existing cross member, sourcing a new crossmember and securing that in.

while I could go that route, I don't want to as I just need the right tranny and my problems are solved.

The cast iron trannys have the gm bolt pattern on the left and a Chrysler pattern on the right (at least that's what I've learned). The aluminum ones, all seem to have the Saginaw style bolt pattern (Music Man is the expert on this one).

From calling 20 to 30 wrecking yards, it looks like the C20's and diesels all were cast iron...the C10's were aluminum.

So, I'm looking for the aluminum one to go behind about a 330 hp L48 small block...not going to drag race...just cruise and go.

Photo of cast iron on the top, aluminum on the bottom. Evidently, the aluminum one is the same pattern as the SM420 (Granny Low) I am taking out...

There are a lot of threads on this one...I don't mean to bring this up again...but boy, finding a good aluminum tranny is tough!!!!

[MusicMan70]

par4tom Re: Transmission Nightmare 1961

The cast iron trannys have the gm bolt pattern on the left and a Chrysler pattern on the right (at least that's what I've learned). The aluminum ones, all seem to have the Saginaw style bolt pattern (Music Man is the expert on this one).

Tom, I'm no expert but thanks for the Title

When I chose to do this based on the Classic Trucks article info, I purchased this trans. It has the Chrysler/GM bolt pattern that requires the specific bell housing (which it did not come with). I didn't know any better. Even after reading the article it did not register to me.

This was for my GMC V6, which has it's own unique bell housing and hydraulic clutch as well. So I bought another trans (ebay) with the correct "ears."

I also bought a shifter by separately and found out later they made several configurations. I was lucky because the one I purchased fit correctly.

*The first trans I got WAS aluminum w/o the Saginaw bolt pattern and the shift arms ARE heavy duty. I also purchased a Factory shifter with a slightly different mounting bracket (more flater then what I ended up using; and the shift arms are slightly thinner and have more angle to them (I guess to make up for the flatter mounting bracket). I posted some pics.

The transmission shop asked for both trans and used the best parts from both. They also instructed me to keep the leftovers because they said some parts were specific to this transmission.

I believe these transmissions also came in some Vans from that era 80-87.

[63burban]

Re drill the mounting holes on the trans using your bell housing as a pattern.

[par4tom]

That may be an option but without a transmission her it's hard to do.
Upper bolt spacings on my bell housing is 8 1/4 center to center.
Lower bolt spacing is 9 1/8 center to center

That is the pattern on the original SM420
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[par4tom]

Music, I just checked the photos on the trans I was going to buy( the aluminum one and not the one in the picture above) and its the same as the one you had in your picture above with the wrong bolt pattern. I suspect, your bell housing bolt pattern and mine are the same. Almost made a big mistake. Thank you again...

So... I have found what appears to be the right trans(see photo of aluminum one above) that has the right bolt pattern. Problem is, no shifter, no rods and $500 bucks... I feel that steel toe boot kicking me in the groin again!

They need to put a thread that sorts all this out on the FAQ sheet someday... There are so many threads its confusing...
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[luvbowties]

[QUOTE=par4tom;5947361]My problem would be solved BUT (and I am now the big BUTT of the neighborhood), that would require sourcing motormounts for a 61 (they would have to come off the frame), cutting out the existing cross member, sourcing a new crossmember and securing that in.


Just an idea to keep in mind IF your days remain rainy, and depending on how much of a show truck you want:

Below mount($2.50 at Rock Auto) plus 1 pc 2” X 2” heavy gauge box tubing
Drill 1 hole near one end of tubing so bolt goes thru it AND the below mount
Weld other end to frame WHILE horseshoe mount AND bell-hsng mounts are in place
Engine mounts are done.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Use correct length of same 2” X 2” box tubing for rear trans mount: bolt in, frame-to-frame
Rear x-member(trans mount)is done.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Then: Remove horseshoe mount and front x-member.
>>>>>>> JOB DONE LEAVING ENGINE IN SAME LOCATION <<<<<<<<<

Not arguing, just illustrating how simple & inexpensive that job can be.

Good luck with your project--and hoping you enjoy it to the utmost! Please keep us posted on what you find.
sam

[par4tom]

Well... I may have to do that now... I am not having any luck on a tranny! Are you sure I can weld those mounts to the frame on a 61? It's a box frame and I think there is a hole in the frame about where the motor mounts would need to be welded.
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[luvbowties]

If in a critical position, maybe just bolt a plate over it?
sam

[padresag]

I would bolt them to the frame instead of welding them. makes it a lot simpler later if you have to work under neath or drop out a trans. I would aslo undo the frt mount and raise the eng a bit before putting the side mounting in so that you can get it in the right place when it is sitting on the new mounts as at the same height as original
ron

[Captainfab]

The '67-'72 small block motor mount brackets work quite nicely to install side mounts in the '60-'62's.



I believe markeb01 has some pics of his installation.

[par4tom]

Guys, thanks for the input. I'm going to go ahead and convert to the side motor mounts. I ll leave the horseshoe mount on as well. As an FYI, the Saginaw transmission I had wanted is virtually non existant anymore. I called at least 25 of the companies on the Car Parts website, and there was only ONE... And no shifter mechanism. I suspect that if I had bought that transmission, finding the shifter arms would have been a whole new challenge.

Thanks for the input...your ideas are probably a better way to go anyhow!

Is there something I need to know about which bell housing to get? I m using the hydraulic clutch set up and it looks like I have to move the slave to the drivers side. Shame to, I had it set up and working perfectly.
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[padresag]

Originally Posted by par4tom

Guys, thanks for the input. I'm going to go ahead and convert to the side motor mounts. I ll leave the horseshoe mount on as well. As an FYI, the Saginaw transmission I had wanted is virtually non existant anymore. I called at least 25 of the companies on the Car Parts website, and there was only ONE... And no shifter mechanism. I suspect that if I had bought that transmission, finding the shifter arms would have been a whole new challenge.

Thanks for the input...your ideas are probably a better way to go anyhow!

Is there something I need to know about which bell housing to get? I m using the hydraulic clutch set up and it looks like I have to move the slave to the drivers side. Shame to, I had it set up and working perfectly.
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if you go for the side mounts then you remove the front mount. until you decide what trans that you are going to use I would leave everything as it is as you may just be changing things for not.
ron

[par4tom]

I m going to go with the NP 440 /MY 6 OD unit cast iron trans...I can get a whole unit with shifter for $750, rebuilt I m in it for $1000.
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[par4tom]

More drama... The trans I wanted to buy turns out to be a top shifter, and another that said they had one for about $750...that was a top shifter as well.

So 30 phone calls later (no joke) I ve found an aluminum trams with bell housing and shift rods for $450 landed in California. This means a shift to different motor mounts, cutting out the current bell housing with motor mounts, brake line re routing etc. I m ok with all of that.

I also can get an aluminum 440 with Saginaw bolt pattern, no shift rods or shifter, but with the shifter bracket. Looks to be in ok condition and for about $300 bucks. I'd have to find all the rods and shifter someplace else. Not an easy task unless someone here knows where one of theses is at.

I also can get the cast iron version with the rods and bell housing. It will need to be rebuilt but us about $400 bucks.

If you guys were in my shoes, which would be the best choice and which way would you go.

Thank you in advance for your help...
Tom
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[luvbowties]

Originally Posted by par4tom

More drama... The trans I wanted to buy turns out to be a top shifter, and another that said they had one for about $750...that was a top shifter as well.

So 30 phone calls later (no joke) I ve found an aluminum trams with bell housing and shift rods for $450 landed in California. This means a shift to different motor mounts, cutting out the current bell housing with motor mounts, brake line re routing etc. I m ok with all of that.

I also can get an aluminum 440 with Saginaw bolt pattern, no shift rods or shifter, but with the shifter bracket. Looks to be in ok condition and for about $300 bucks. I'd have to find all the rods and shifter someplace else. Not an easy task unless someone here knows where one of theses is at.

I also can get the cast iron version with the rods and bell housing. It will need to be rebuilt but us about $400 bucks.

If you guys were in my shoes, which would be the best choice and which way would you go.

Thank you in advance for your help...
Tom
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I'd def. go with the COMPLETE unit--aluminum trams with bell housing and shift rods for $450 landed in California. That problem now solved. Next problem, installation, is a sure thing fixable BY YOU--not via hoping to find needed parts somewhere??? in the future.

Eliminates one full anxiety point!
sam

[par4tom]

still would need a shifter...can a Hurst Shifter be modified to fit the rods?

[MusicMan70]

par4tom Re: Transmission Nightmare 1961

I also can get an aluminum 440 with Saginaw bolt pattern, no shift rods or shifter, but with the shifter bracket. Looks to be in ok condition and for about $300 bucks. I'd have to find all the rods and shifter someplace else. Not an easy task unless someone here knows where one of theses is at.

Tom, do you have a picture of the bracket? Is it flat as posted earlier or the offset ?