Something to think about during modification process

[dicer]

Here is an example of what a factory stock vehicle can do for you. Not a chev truck, it was about a $1900 deal when new.

1965 Volkswagen Type 2 - 21 Window Bus $99,000...

[Chris.]

Ya the 24 Windows are extremely rare
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[broey]

why not use a chevy truck as example? Is it because the cost of restoring to factory condition out weights the financial gain? I personally know quite a few people who make a killing customizing and selling. Can't think of anyone who restores to factory cond with a truck that can make a living off it. The aftermaket parts game is a billion dollar a year industry, which speaks volumes for the amount of money that can be made by altering a vehicle from factory spec. I have read other posts you make through out the forum and It's obvious you have an agenda against people who dont like exactly what you like. But the truth of the matter is, customizing on a large or small scale, is the norm. And as someone who goes to the auctions, I can tell you. A 55-59 who has swapped the motor, added power steering and got rid of the straight axle will usually do a lot better than a restored to factory truck. Granted, if you just look at the end price you are not really getting the big picture. A stock restored truck that sells for 45k may have taken 35-40k to get there, where as a mild custom that has 20-25k total invested will still pull 40-50k wielding a much larger profit. (by the way these numbers are based on real sales that I know of from friends that have sold)

a 21 window bus is hard to come by. and the VW genre in general is more into the stock look numbers matching style. So collectors are out there, with deep pockets to find a bus like that to add to their collection.

As for the truck scene, most truck owners use their trucks on a daily basis, and are not collectors. There for, customizing and upgrading are desirable. Take this forum for example. Almost every sponsor and gold member here is selling something that changes the truck from stock. in a better way. Also the people on the forum recognize that what they offer is worth the value in return. And in return the companies keep this forum alive.

So if you want to keep your truck stock, do it. Link to your build thread and show off what you are doing, there are plenty of people who appreciate it. But also appreciate the fact that what you are personally into is just a small niche in the grand scale of truck owners and what they like.

[Kabwe]

Also if people are building cars or trucks for the purpose of resell or what they can get out of them. You are in the hobby for the wrong reason. You can never get what you put into them. The money may seem nice until you start adding things up, and there is no way you can get back your time. If you start to add that up, its over.lol It takes most of us years to complete a build. When I or friends of mine have sold rides it was at a lost. Then why sell? Because we wanted another project.lol Its for the love of the hobby is why you should do this, it cost a lot of time, money, and energy so you better love it.

[Old Crow]

I make a living restoring the old stuff. I do not build spec cars. I build cars/trucks that guys like you find and bring to me.
Kwabe is right, it's a labor of love, not a money making proposition. I don't see how these guys that build something and then sell it actually make any money without cutting corners somewhere where you won't see it. Heck, the TV announcers at Barrett-Jackson are always commenting that the sale price was less than the cost of restoration.
Besides, spec cars don't have any soul, or cool back-stories. I've got a '39 Packard that used to belong to the present owners grandfather, who taught her to drive in it. I've got a '57 Bel-Aire that the wife told me her husband and she went on their first date in...with his mother driving because they were too young to drive. I've got a '68 Mustang that the owner got brand new for graduation from high school. I've got a '70 Road Runner that was an engagement present to the lady that owns it. I've got a '66 Impala who's owner's uncle used to drag race before the present owner was born.
These cars are members of the family. Spec cars are just old used cars.

[dicer]

I'm really not totally against customizing. I'll be the first to admit that these old trucks have lots of areas that could use some improvement. What bugs me the most is ruining of good impossible to get parts. 1st and formost is the frame, once they are all chopped up that is it. There are none being made. Bodys and body parts are being made except for 58 59 cabs, or firewalls, that is if they are different from the 55 to 57 's.
Only when hard to get parts are ruined is when I'm on an agenda.

[dirtracer81_2]

Hey dicer im 90% with ya on that one. I dont really care much for chop tops and stuff like that but in my case im destroying a fairly rare truck. Mine was a 57 gmc 3/4 ton 347 engine that ran. I hate a long bed and definately not using 3/4 ton stuff. Tried selling the running gear but seems nobody has a use for it so it will be getting scrapped soon. I hate going to the scrap yard because most of the time you see something good there and ready to beat the guy up that hauled it in there..

About 6 years ago when I was young haha guy told me he had an old chevy they would sell. I went and looked at it and it was a 58 cameo. The dummies cut the frame off behind the cab and made a trailer out of it. Looks like the used a tractor to move the rest ofthe cab around and wasnt anything left of it. Thats what I call destroying a truck.

[Chevette]

Originally Posted by dicer

I'm really not totally against customizing. I'll be the first to admit that these old trucks have lots of areas that could use some improvement. What bugs me the most is ruining of good impossible to get parts. 1st and formost is the frame, once they are all chopped up that is it. There are none being made. Bodys and body parts are being made except for 58 59 cabs, or firewalls, that is if they are different from the 55 to 57 's.
Only when hard to get parts are ruined is when I'm on an agenda.

Parts that are "Ruined"? Many of us would see what you call "ruined" as "improved". If you want to restore your truck to stock specs, then go ahead, fill your boots. But you ought not preach vehicle savior to a group of people, many of whom, love modifying their trucks.

[Garys8]

These are all opinions, no reason to get all feisty people.

[fabguy]

I would say that you should build to what makes you happy regardless of resale value. I built and sold and kept trucks and cars that make ME happy. I have a buddy who restores corvettes by the factory numbers and he does it because he enjoys it, although his best he says was his 59 vette with 94 vette running gear and injection. He is currently working on his last project which is a numbered 55 vette and he has almost every car he build because as he puts it, "I build my cars for me, and wont get the money or time out of them".
I am currently working on finishing my 58 fleetside and getting ready to start my 55 suburban. I do it because I love it, not to make money because when all is said and done I will lose alot if I sell it.
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[Chevette]

Originally Posted by fabguy

I would say that you should build to what makes you happy regardless of resale value. I built and sold and kept trucks and cars that make ME happy. I have a buddy who restores corvettes by the factory numbers and he does it because he enjoys it, although his best he says was his 59 vette with 94 vette running gear and injection. He is currently working on his last project which is a numbered 55 vette and he has almost every car he build because as he puts it, "I build my cars for me, and wont get the money or time out of them".
I am currently working on finishing my 58 fleetside and getting ready to start my 55 suburban. I do it because I love it, not to make money because when all is said and done I will lose alot if I sell it.
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Exactly. Note my sig.

[GBM]

I see both sides. I also agree with both sides. I have received tons of hate when I chopped up my 50 to make a mud racer out of it. I heard the "why would you take a runnn and driving 1950 and destroy it like that?" Here is my reply, It is mine, it tickles my fancy to build it this way, and my daughter loves it to death. As it turns out, all the bad on the truck was cut outfor the tires and then after stripping the truck from the fame, I found that the frame would need a ton of repair around the rear leaf spring mounts.

I love stock restored trucks and one day will build one. Probably not because stock leaves much to be desired for me. I hav built about 40 of these trucks, 30s-70s and never had a customer ask to leave one stock.

I make my money from customizing and people on a general around me, dont want to pay to go back stock. They want modern ammenities and performance with the old body look. I have 53 5 window that the owner has put 100k miles on since I did the nova sub swap and a 5.3 with 6 speed swap. He has 25k in it and prefers to drive it over his brand new chevy truck.

[thump16]

My truck is an all original hydramatic 56 step side. It will never return to stock but will be resurrected as my classic rare to me ride. These trucks are already fetching high prices being modded. Guys we can't worry about the condition or parts on them just drive the hell out of them, show off your work and be happy. Judd said.
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[_Ogre]

i can appreciate stock to full custom and the work to get each vehicle to where it's at.
sometimes i roll my eyes and wonder ''what was the owner thinking?''
but i also hear those comments on my truk too

truk will never see gravel or big loads in the bed, but i built it for me.
i never show it or want it to be judged, who cares what others think of my truk

[Kabwe]

My only point is you should build stock because you like stocked vehicles and for no other reason. You will not recoup your efforts either way stocked or modified so you may as well build what you desire.

People who are in the market for a classic truck or car will gravitate to what they desire anyway. Modified or stocked both have their admirers. My completely modified 55 210 could be sold tomorrow if I chose to do so. I can't drive down the street without getting offers.

I'm starting to meet more and more people who would much rather buy them completed with all the modification they like. Why? The answer I get is I don't have the time, talent, or energy to build one. It's hard to build them and its getting even harder to hold on to them once done.

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

i never show it or want it to be judged, who cares what others think of my truk
]

I feel the same way. I go to shows to talk cars and trucks and I could care less about winning anything at a show. There will always be a nicer ride and deeper pockets. Always.

I have seen people get bent out of shape because their ride did not win. Ruined their whole day over a silly little trophy. That is the wrong reason to build a car in my opinion. I have left shows not knowing I won and I really could care less that I did. Its nice that something you own is appreciated, but it was not the reason I got into the hobby. I get enjoyment from just being around and talking to other car guys, that is the trophy for me.

[mr48chev]

Originally Posted by Kabwe

Also if people are building cars or trucks for the purpose of resell or what they can get out of them. You are in the hobby for the wrong reason. You can never get what you put into them. The money may seem nice until you start adding things up, and there is no way you can get back your time. If you start to add that up, its over.lol It takes most of us years to complete a build. When I or friends of mine have sold rides it was at a lost. Then why sell? Because we wanted another project.lol Its for the love of the hobby is why you should do this, it cost a lot of time, money, and energy so you better love it.

AMEN!

About twelve years ago I dropped out of the car hobby simply because I got tired of the constant "what's it worth" question at every car event I went to and every time I was stopped somewhere with the truck.

The only people who can actually make money restoring or building and modifying cars on speculation are those who are set up to do it and know how to keep costs down. I had a friend who built a street rod a year in the 80's and sold them at the end of the rodding season to finance finishing the next project that was already started. Each one got a bit better and nicer than the last one but I don't think he ever made profit on them that he could put in the bank.

AS far as restored to factory stock that bs has been dissproven time and time again over the years. That VW was an example of a known show winner that will place high or win at any VW national event it is taken to and that is the main reason for the high resale price. The run of the mill home restoration on most anything won't bring the same price that a nicely modified version of the same vehicle will bring. Just look up what stock restored Model A Fords sell for and then look up what similar Model A hot rods sell for.

[flashed]

Trophys are over rated ,Id rather drive and enjoy whatever Im in . I could care less what it has cost in the end as long as I enjoy the ride .

[mr48chev]

Originally Posted by flashed

Trophys are over rated ,Id rather drive and enjoy whatever Im in . I could care less what it has cost in the end as long as I enjoy the ride .

True to a point but there are those who live for the trophy.

I have always wanted to do the 48 up to the point that I was able to show it for one indoor show season on the West Coast and then drive the wheels off it after that.
I don't see the point of having your truck loaded in and enclosed trailer and hauled from outdoor show to outdoor show week after week all summer and not drive it around the country though. I haven't read through the OP's other posts but have a feeling that he is more of a restorer or wannabe restorer who still believes that modifying a vehicle at any level drops the value below a "restored" vehicle.

[crossfire84]

i never show it or want it to be judged, who cares what others think of my truk

[/QUOTE]

AMEN!!

[meter swinger]

Originally Posted by dicer

Here is an example of what a factory stock vehicle can do for you. Not a chev truck, it was about a $1900 deal when new.

My god man you must be a tormented soul or something lighten up a little and enjoy the ride. Isn't that why we are here? I like factory trucks too, and also modified ones of every style. I guess i dont know what i don't like. nothing at all wrong with being a purist friend. Just realize that those of us who aren't purists prize these trucks also.
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[Chevette]

Ya, and if I wanna, I'll do this to my truck.