5 speed or 6 speed.

[V10farmboysdream]

Hello all. I'm the proud owner of an 87 Lwb half ton 4x4. Original trans and diffs. My question is: is there a bolt in 5 or 6 speed tranny that will work with the original 208 tc. Or even a 205. I've got a 4 speed with the granny. Don't quite remember the step from 1-2 being so big when I was a kid. But she's a doozy and I'd like a smoother trans and better milage.

Any advice would be much appreciated.
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[wraprail]

I have had both in my c10 (T5 & T56) but neither will work with 4wd.
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[b454rat]

I think the Getrag 5 speed that comes in the 88-up truck is a bolt in, but not 100%. Have to do some searching, it has been covered before. On CK5 too.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by b454rat

I think the Getrag 5 speed that comes in the 88-up truck is a bolt in, but not 100%. Have to do some searching, it has been covered before. On CK5 too.

What's CK5?

K

[Turbo85GMC]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

What's CK5?

www.coloradok5.com

[Space Monkey]

Don't start off in 1st...?
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[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by V10farmboysdream

My question is: is there a bolt in 5 or 6 speed tranny that will work with the original 208 tc. Or even a 205.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
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Yes there is, a NV3500 and NV4500. Both are 5 speed manuals. The NV3500 is pretty light duty with no granny gear while the NV4500 is related to the manual trans you have now but with OD and closer shifting gates. No 6 speed manual will work those transfercases, plus you wouldn’t want a ZF 6$-650 transmission anyway. Trust me.

Here is a link to one of my NV4500 swaps that would be very close to what you are looking at doing.

[V10farmboysdream]

I haven't used the granny for anything but hauling. Just the gate from 1-2 and the high rpms at 65. I'm just looking for reliability for working and drivability on the highway. I'm doing a body off next summer. Going to find the right stuff befor she's tore down to make reassembly faster. This ole girl will be the last truck I buy. I want to set it up right the first time. Ill do some hunting for a nv4500. Is that a cast iron case or aluminum?
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[b454rat]

4500 is all iron, and heavy as hell!!!

[83GMCK2500]

4500 has aluminum bellhousing, top cover, and tailhousing. Main case is cast iron.

And like b454rat said, she heavy. I think it's around 220#.

[b454rat]

Ok, almost all iron....

[SeanPaintsFlames]

What rear gear do you have? Tire sizes? There may be a cheaper/easier answer than a trans swap.

[V10farmboysdream]

It's got airplane gears in it. 3:73s or shorter. My 3/4 ton had 4:10s. Tires are 265-75-16's. stock rims. 383 stroker,eldo 600. The truck is all stock but the motor. I'm not getting the torque out of the motor because of the gears and trans. I'd like to keep it a manual. But would like and overdrive and switch to a 4:10 front and rear.
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[b454rat]

Not a real big diff going from 3.73 to 4.10s. Look in glovebox or under the hood for the PRO codes. Some came with 3.42s. but probly has less than that...

[esbstuff]

3500's make good boat anchors. Use the 4500 and it will last almost forever.

BTW 1/2 tons could come with everything under the sun depending on year...2.56, 2.73, 3.07, 3.08, 3.42, 3.73 and 4.10. Id keep the 4-speed if I had 3.08 and taller. but since you want to go to 4.10's, change away. Just remember not to lug in 5th and you will never have a problem.

Of course this comes from a guy that use to stoplight race a stock 78, 350, 4-speed, 3.07's and 4x4. Put the truck in the low side (which divides your gearing in half) and open front hubs and this makes the rearend just like having 6.14's. The local racer guys could never figure out how i could beat them all day long and still run a buck 30 down the interstate.

[Mr. 250r]

I have found i dont use first in any manual vehicle i own or drive whether it be my cavalier or my cummins the first is always way too low i use 2nd or 3rd depending on the situation and i would opt for a t56. Rsgear sells the adapter to make them 4wd for a cheap 1500$ or you could build your own for like maybe 100$

I tow in od in my cummins but then again that is probably built more for towing than other stated trannys and i also have to because i cant tow in 5th unless i wanted to max out at 45mph but if there is a hill obviously i may have to downshift depending on the grade

[Redcap]

Originally Posted by 83GMCK2500

4500 has aluminum bellhousing, top cover, and tailhousing. Main case is cast iron.

And like b454rat said, she heavy. I think it's around 220#.

I can vouch for that. Wrestling one in by yourself is no fun.

[V10farmboysdream]

This will all be done when the body is off to paint next summer. Lol. I'm not a very big guy. The feed back is AWSOME on this site. Been a chevy guy my whole life. Can't thank y'all enough.
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[hatzie]

Originally Posted by esbstuff

3500's make good boat anchors. Use the 4500 and it will last almost forever.

I've killed 5th on a 4500. I installed a 3500 in a buddys truck that's run 100K and still going.

The 3500 is a good transmission if you stay within its limitations. Don't exceed 300 ft lbs or tow extremely heavy loads and it'll be just fine. The NV3500 is relatively light, fairly easy to find, and cheap. It's a geared for fuel economy... 4 useable forward gears with OD (5th).

The NV4500 is difficult to find, big $, and heavier than a dead horse. It's not exactly an economy transmission being a 3 speed with LOW (1st) and OD (5th).
I've done this swap on my '76. If I had it to do again I'd use a Gear Vendors OD on an SM465. I like my NV4500 and it gets me bragging points but from a purely functional point of view the SM465 with an OD box is way better.

1. When you factor in the transmission cost and clutch conversion time (almost a month for me and I'm billed out at $110/hr) & money the cost is pretty close to the same.
2. The SM465 is EXTREMELY difficult to kill.
3. The SM465 is way cheaper sometimes even free.
4. The SM465 bolts right up with stock parts and no drama.
5. The SM465 mates with the NP203, NP205, NP208, & RH drop NP241 with stock parts and no drama. The NP208 & NP241 will bolt up to the NV4500. The NP205 OTOH is a difficult expensive dance and if you want to use the NP203 low range case for a low range doubler be prepared to shell out even more.
6. The SM465 has the same extremely low 1st (6.55:1) as the rare 1993 NV4500.
7. The Gear Vendors OD matches the 0.73:1 NV4500 OD ratio and you can split 2nd & 3rd gears if you wish.
8. Best of all... you can tow in OD without shearing the 5th gear to mainshaft splines (that killed my 1st NV4500). With the NV4500 you are stuck towing in 4th.

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by hatzie

The NV4500 is difficult to find, big $, and heavier than a dead horse. It's not exactly an economy transmission being a 3 speed with LOW (1st) and OD (5th).
I've done this swap on my '76. If I had it to do again I'd use a Gear Vendors OD on an SM465. I like my NV4500 and it gets me bragging points but from a purely functional point of view the SM465 with an OD box is way better.

I don’t know about that Hatzie. A NV4500 can be installed for as little as $500 upwards to $2000 depending on what route one goes. The NV4500 swap into my K10 was around a $1800 date while the Suburban was around $1000. A Gear Vendors kit will cost $3000 and you still end up with an archaic greasy old dump truck shifting 465 in the end.

1. When you factor in the transmission cost and clutch conversion time (almost a month for me and I'm billed out at $110/hr) & money the cost is pretty close to the same.
   Why bill or pay labor? The only affordable way to own, build and maintain these old trucks is to do the work yourself as a hobby. Paying someone to do the work for you wouldn’t be worth even owning an old truck.
   
2. The SM465 is EXTREMELY difficult to kill.
   Yes, that is true, a 465 is without a doubt an anvil. The problem is it archaic and clumsy shifting like one too.
   
3. The SM465 is way cheaper sometimes even free.
   Yes, I have two in my garage right now that need a home. Replaced them with NV4500's. About ready to give them away because nobody wants to buy them.
   
4. The SM465 bolts right up with stock parts and no drama.
   So does a NV4500 with the right combination of parts and depending on the year of the truck receiving the transplant.
   
5. The SM465 mates with the NP203, NP205, NP208, & RH drop NP241 with stock parts and no drama. The NP208 & NP241 will bolt up to the NV4500. The NP205 OTOH is a difficult expensive dance and if you want to use the NP203 low range case for a low range doubler be prepared to shell out even more.
   So does the NV4500. It will accept any 1985 or later transfercase with a 32 spline female input shaft (465 or TH400 tcase). Advance adapters has goodies to put anything behind a NV4500 and would still be cheaper than a Gear Vendors.
   
6. The SM465 has the same extremely low 1st (6.55:1) as the rare 1993 NV4500.
   Very true. I badly miss the 6:34:1 granny gear in my old 465's (not 6.55:1). The later model NV4500 5:61:1 granny gear takes some getting used to.
   
7. The Gear Vendors OD matches the 0.73:1 NV4500 OD ratio and you can split 2nd & 3rd gears if you wish.
   Yes, but Gear Vendors is still over $3000 and you still have an archaic dump truck trans with crazy wide clumsy shift gates when you are done. Plus the highly potential hassles of dealing with aftermarket modules, solenoids and electronics to go bad. The aftermarket does a poor job of providing durable electronics. All of them…Holley to MSD to Gear Vendors, nobody in the aftermarket durability tests electronics like OEM's do.
   
8. Best of all... you can tow in OD without shearing the 5th gear to mainshaft splines (that killed my 1st NV4500). With the NV4500 you are stuck towing in 4th.
   I lug the heck out of NV4500 behind my 8.1L because the engine has enough low end torque to cruise around in 5th most everywhere. The poor Suburban couldn't pull a rabbit out of a hat so it doesn't see 5th very much unless it is on a flat road or going downhill .
   
   One of my buddy’s owns a rural telephone company with a fleet of late 90’s Dodges with Cummin/NV4500’s where they tow construction equipment daily in 5th gear. These Dodges are over 200,000 miles on the original engines (no surprise with the Cummins) and transmissions. Another friend has 2 GM 3500-HD wreckers with 6.5L engines and NV4500 and tows cars all day long every day in 5th. Both of his trucks received the 5th gear nut update about 10 years ago. I am not aware of him replacing the transmission in either of these trucks since then.
   

I guess it all boils down to what people really want in the end. Nothing wrong with a 465, it is just old and clumsy without over drive. The NV3500 is too light duty and the NV4500 is the best of all worlds if maintained correctly and addressing the 5th gear nut the instant it pops out of 5th gear the first time. Not waiting for months while it continues to pop out of gear and chews up the mainshaft in the meantime. Towing in 5th is not a problem but towing in 5th with a loose nut will kill them faster.

Just my .02

[V10farmboysdream]

Forgive my ignorance. But what I'm hearing is there is a bolt on OD for a 465? I know the sm465 is bullet proof. The only thing it's missing is an OD. Of I can bolt one on I'd be tickled to grins.
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[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by V10farmboysdream

Forgive my ignorance. But what I'm hearing is there is a bolt on OD for a 465? I know the sm465 is bullet proof. The only thing it's missing is an OD. Of I can bolt one on I'd be tickled to grins.
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Yeah, it seems as though there is a bolt on OD for the SM465. Looks like there were about dozen references above to a thing called Gear Vendors.

For $3095 you can bolt this thing on the back of your existing transfercase and have OD.




http://www.gearvendors.com/4x4gmmanual.html

[V10farmboysdream]

Has anyone used it? Looks too good to be true aside from the price. Is it as tuff as the tranny it's going on?
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[86c20]

there are guys over in the diesel word that use them all the time. but i looked into getting one out of a volvo and then geting the right adp. but gv wanted 650 for it with a core. the only other thing i was thinking is a brownie box. under direct and overdrive. for every gear.

other then that it looks like i am going with a clack vo or soome sort of spicer

[V10farmboysdream]

I looked in the glove box and its got 3:08's. I gotta get my gage cluster put together with the tach and see what it's realy running at 65. I realy want to keep it as stock looking as I can. I'm going to try a build thread on here to help keep people up to speed and share any tips or tricks we stumble on. You guys seem to have these trucks pritty well licked though. I sold my rust free low milage 98 z71 to get my custom delux. I've got a long row to hoe to get it into shape and getting 15 mpg
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