Index Torsion Bars

[gbrown]

Yes, I searched- and found several threads that mention indexing torsion bars but none that spell out the process. I've got a 60 c-10 and am on the lowest budget ever and thought that this would be a free/cheap way to get the front-end down. I'm planning jeep coils and lowering blocks for the rear, but the front needs to come WAY down! If any of you guys have done this, could you please advise? I'm deducing that you pull the torsion bars out at the control arm, but then what? Additionally, does this create camber issues that can't be corrected? Any advice would be much appreciated- thanks in advance.

[gbrown]

btt

[fleetsidelarry]

gbrown, if you mean actual indexing as in taking the end of the torsion bar off and moving it on the "splines", I've not seen a post from someone who's actually done it on our trucks ('60-'62). As you know, you CAN adjust the tension on the bar to raise or lower the truck, but you did say "index" which to me implies changing the positioning of the ends relative to each other

The main thing I see is that these bars are hex shaped on the ends, meaning, of course, that they only have 6 "splines" or faces. IF (big "if") I remember trig from my long-ago school days, this means that indexing just one face means a change of 60°. And IF I'm doing the math right, this means a change at the center line of the tire ROUGHLY (I am just estimating this) equal to the distance from the torsion bar centerline to the tire center. Quick check on my '61 panel shows that to be about 18 inches.

So (again if I'm doing the math right), indexing one face equals a drop (assuming that's the purpose) of a foot and a half!

Hopefully, someone will set me straight on the math if I've goofed

[gbrown]

Now we're getting somewhere!

Larry, thank you for replying and taking a stab at the math. I do indeed need direction regarding 'indexing'- removing the torsion bar from the control arm (I think), and turning it one spline (again, I think).

That's the extent of the info I've been able to glean and I know there's someone on here who can set me straight. Which direction to turn the bars once removed from the control arms? How much drop will I gain? Will this effect the camber and, if so, can it be fixed?

Although I do not question your math from an academic perspective (I took College Algebra 3 times and never scored higher than a D), I seriously doubt it lowers the front end 18", based on what I've seen!

Thanks again and I hope some others chime in soon.

[fleetsidelarry]

lets just say it'll put it in the weeds.

I am certain of this: if you move the end one face (they're not really "splines" on our bars), it will change by 60°. 60° is a lot

seriously, try this (something I do sometimes when I want to SEE what's happening), draw it out to scale on the garage floor or in the dirt.

I HAVE heard of "indexing", but it has always been on newer vehicles with real splines.

The only way I have seen our T-bar trucks done is by changing the tension on the rear adjusters

[fleetsidelarry]

Originally Posted by gbrown

I seriously doubt it lowers the front end 18", based on what I've seen!

I really need to clarify before too many see that 18" drop quote

obviously, the actual amount of drop would be limited by interference with the components bottoming out, whatever that would be, maximum with bump-stops removed. the 18" was roughly the amount (without getting too fancy) that an 18" lower control arm would swing over 60° of travel and was meant to illustrate what just the minimum available t-bar "indexing" would do.

I seriously doubt that you could re-install the t-bars.

Again, all I've ever seen described is the method of slacking off the adjusters, and I've been reading relevent threads on here for awile.

Hope you get some more replies (later tonight most likely)

[Blue Blood]

Thanks fleetside larry, that's where I was headed thinking this thru before starting, that the truck would be on the floor & would I get enough travel out of the porkchop to grt back to a reasonable ride height.
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[Matt's k5]

I lowerd mine just by turning the bolts down , I cant rember how much but it dropped it 4-5 inches if I rember right, and installed jeep coils in the rear I like the way it looks it , it rides hard in the front just got to watch pot holes.

[LVPhotos]

See my pictures. All the way down minus bumpstops. Tire alignment is a issue and bolts hang low. Not worried have PorterBuilt front going in. Its about a bumper lower than stock... see cardomain page under lvphotos. Twist away. Tire alignment will be your main consern as is bump stops. Then save up for drop spindles.
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[Blue Blood]

^Thats part of my wanting to repositoon the torsion bars, looks are important but a safe normal handling driving unit is 1st priority.
Thanks for the input,btw .. great looking truck!
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[fleetsidelarry]

it seems to me that repositioning (indexing) the bars (if it can be done) will have the same effect on camber as cranking down the bolts. just like drop springs on vehicles with coils. a better option is drop spindles which won't change the camber but don't offer as much drop as some like/want.

investing too much in these old style ball-joint, ball bearing fronts is why most swap to something newer.

LVPhotos, had trouble with the link for the dropmember, is that a torsion bar setup?

[LVPhotos]

It's all stock for now, the truck had a few cranks in it for years. I got the new front so I cranked some more, hit the bumpstops, removed them and have 2 to 3 inches of travel. Till I get everything for the PorterBuilt front I run it like that. TUCKERS trucks has a picture on FB from the show this last weekend. Handles fine...have lots of play from years gone by. If its not a daily driver you can play with it. Or just give a few turns at a time. Remember where you start. Bounce the truck to get it settle. Go bags in rear without compresser to start. Save up for spindles, for disk brakes. I have a lot of parts soon to be installed after buying a little here and there. That front will cost close to grand no matter how you rebuild it.
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[fleetsidelarry]

sorry, LVPhotos, I didn't phrase my question well. what I meant was: will the PorterBuilt be a torsion bar cross member or a regular coil-type?

[LVPhotos]

Air bags no torsion bars. See their web and I have picture on cardomain. Working out of town so no computer to post pictures. Haven't been able to post pictures from phone. It is tubular a -arms and new crossmember. I also splurged on rear tubular trailing arms to move reared back an inch to keep it centered in well and off the front lip. As the rear goes up it arcs forward as well. I blew my budget after trailing arms got powder coated. But I have had this truck since 1998.
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[LVPhotos]

Good news is the rusty trucks get more attention now. I get the "its another small block" I do it too bypassers but as soon as I fire it up "sleeper". Nods and thumb ups.
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[joedoh]

Yeah I talked about it once but with only 6 splines that's tough to lift up. I have done it on countless mazdas where the adjusters drug the ground and sometimes got caught and ripped off if you didn't reindex.
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[gbrown]

Thanks for all the input guys! Looks like I'll just wind those dudes down as far as they'll go and cut the bump stops out. I'll probably have to wait on what I had planned for the rear (jeep coils and lowering blocks) because I don't want to build a tail-dragger. I do eventually plan to swap the front cross-member for one from a 73-87 and do drop spindles and drop coils at that time. I HATE waiting!!!

[61_FL_Apache]

Originally Posted by gbrown

Thanks for all the input guys! Looks like I'll just wind those dudes down as far as they'll go and cut the bump stops out. I'll probably have to wait on what I had planned for the rear (jeep coils and lowering blocks) because I don't want to build a tail-dragger. I do eventually plan to swap the front cross-member for one from a 73-87 and do drop spindles and drop coils at that time. I HATE waiting!!!

I have done this and have had no "real" issues with it.. You just have to watch how low the torsion bolts are. You can rub those bolts on high spots.

[Crabshack]

I'm in the same boat with my 62...TBs cranked with about 1/2" of room until I hit the bump stops. Anyone have thoughts or insight on using drop spindles with the stock TB setup & switching over to discs up front? Is that a viable option?

[LVPhotos]

Originally Posted by Crabshack

I'm in the same boat with my 62...TBs cranked with about 1/2" of room until I hit the bump stops. Anyone have thoughts or insight on using drop spindles with the stock TB setup & switching over to discs up front? Is that a viable option?

That was the original plan.
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[77lesabre]

Originally Posted by Crabshack

I'm in the same boat with my 62...TBs cranked with about 1/2" of room until I hit the bump stops. Anyone have thoughts or insight on using drop spindles with the stock TB setup & switching over to discs up front? Is that a viable option?

I have drop spindles and disc conversion from CPP on mine and Jeep springs on my rear. I plan to bag it this winter, but I might go ahead and put the 2" blocks on the rear and turn the torsion bars down a little more. Roads around my area suck and I just dont want to drag the torsion bolts or I would have already done it but I looks to have plenty of clearance with the use of the spindles

[verdell]

Originally Posted by Crabshack

I'm in the same boat with my 62...TBs cranked with about 1/2" of room until I hit the bump stops. Anyone have thoughts or insight on using drop spindles with the stock TB setup & switching over to discs up front? Is that a viable option?

I went with 2.5" dropped spindles/6-lug discs up front and 4" dropped
coils in the rear. I also cranked the torsion bars down a little and I've
driven it like this for nearly 10 years with no problems. I'm going with bags on the rear and new wheels in the near future tho...