Mig or Tig to weld IFS Crossmember?

[Pajed]

Hey guys, been lurking for awhile but this is my first post. Bought a 55 2nd series big window last year, and recently purchased a heidts IFS for it. I was wondering what you used to weld your crossmembers?

[Dan in Pasadena]

Which do you already own?

I'm guessing more guys have MIG welders and will say that's what they used, a 220v type.

Although my little Hobart Handler 140 says it'll weld up to 3/16" I wouldn't use it to put an IFS crossmember in. I think (??) it's too small to give me adequate penetration. YMMV.

[Kabwe]

If you own a tig I would tig weld, that is if you are a decent tig welder. But there is nothing wrong with mig welding. Most guys on this site are mig welding their IFS and mig welding is just fine. I now own a tig so I'm tig welding everything, but my mig is still and will always be my workhouse.

The setback to tig welding a IFS is out of position welding. Its much easier to weld in weird position with mig. With tig you will need a heat control on the torch or a frame rotisserie who be nice. That is why most would simply mig weld it.

[Lextech]

I own both. I like the looks of a nice TIG weld better, but there is NOTHING wrong with a nice MIG bead. Your fitment need to be pretty tight to TIG. If there are any gaps the MIG may be a better choice. I actually like a little more substantial welds on crossmembers and chassis brackets. I would probably MIG it if it were me.

Jeff

[Kabwe]

Gaps and things like that are easily solved if you want to tig weld. The number one set back in my opinion of tig welding an IFS in is out of position welding. This is where a torch wheel or a rotisserie would come in handy. Another set back would be having the metal really clean (with tig the metal must be clean) mig is way more forgiving in that regard.

It is way easier to go ahead and mig weld it there is not questions about that. But if you know how to tig, tig is just more fun.lol

[Dan in Pasadena]

Ok, so I've GOTTA ask. I know everyone gets a boner over TIG, but if the metal has to be uber clean, out of positon welding isn't as easy, and dealing with gaps is harder, what's the big positive?

I've only ever seen photos of it so you are arguing with the uninformed, lol. But to me it looks like old fashioned oxy/acetylene gas welding. You've gotta have your technique down pat....and I was a lousy gas welder back in the day too!

If I ever spend that kind of money? It'll be for a plasma cutter or a bigger, 220v MIG welder.

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

Ok, so I've GOTTA ask. I know everyone gets a boner over TIG, but if the metal has to be uber clean, out of positon welding isn't as easy, and dealing with gaps is harder, what's the big positive?

I've only ever seen photos of it so you are arguing with the uninformed, lol. But to me it looks like old fashioned oxy/acetylene gas welding. You've gotta have your technique down pat....and I was a lousy gas welder back in the day too!

If I ever spend that kind of money? It'll be for a plasma cutter or a bigger, 220v MIG welder.

First off you are not getting a AC\DC tig for the price of a plasma cutter or a 220 welder that is number one.lol You can get a plasma cutter and a 220 welder for what I paid for my tig.lol But I still love it. By the way I have a plasma cutter and it hardly ever gets used I'm still every old school and I prefer a electric grinder and a cutoff wheel.lol

Dan I really did not need a tig I could do everything I need to do with a mig. A tig is not required.

What is the boner over tig? You can weld stainless steel, aluminum, magnesium, chrome moly etc. You have total control over the heat and metal filler. No grinding, no splatter, great penetration, and simply beautiful looking welds. Mine are decent I'm working on the beautiful.lol


Now lets talk about rust repair or sheetmetal fab because for me this is where tig shines. You have very low bead and very narrow HAZ and softer bead. What does this mean. Well with metal finishing I have less grinding to do, and I can hammer on dolly on the HAZ to my hearts desire. Its a very nice process.


Very little grinding of the weld bead is needed

This is after I grind down the welds and did a little hammer and dolly work. With mig I had a some tack weld crack under extreme hammer and dolly work. Not really an issue you just tack it again, but with tig I can crush the weld its not as brittle. Also if you get your panels really nice and flush you don't have to use any filler metal at all. Just fusion welds.

Is it needed? heck no but I do find it more fun and enjoyable. But I'm just a carnut and nothing is ever good enough for me I keep reaching to get better.
But I could live without a tig, but I could not do with my mig. I've simply become addicted to tig welding so I tig every thing just to build up my chops.

[xpickup]

Kabwe, I have a ? for you. What size tungsten did you use for the sheet metal and also what size wire. I only ever messed around a little bit on sheet metal. I have 3/32 tungston and it seemed a little to big. I also used .035 mig wire. I think I have to break down and buy some smaller collets and tungston, I think.


Shannon

[Dan in Pasadena]

Thanks Bam. That explains it. Sounds like I'd love it (if I could ever learn to do it), but I'll never have it because frankly, I don't NEED it. I don't intend to build a whole series of project cars - too old! But I can certainly appreciate that it makes the work so much easy, nicer. Great looking work - as always!

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by xpickup

Kabwe, I have a ? for you. What size tungsten did you use for the sheet metal and also what size wire. I only ever messed around a little bit on sheet metal. I have 3/32 tungston and it seemed a little to big. I also used .035 mig wire. I think I have to break down and buy some smaller collets and tungston, I think.


Shannon

Now Shannon you know I consider you a friend would you please call me Bam.lol

I used a 1/16 Ceriated tungsten and also 1/16 ER70S6 filler wire.

[Pajed]

Thanks guys. My Dad has a mig welder and will be doing the welding. I don't know much about this stuff, and was wondering if mig is strong enough. I don't want things to come apart going down the road @ 70 mph, as I plan on using this as a daily driver.

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by Pajed

Thanks guys. My Dad has a mig welder and will be doing the welding. I don't know much about this stuff, and was wondering if mig is strong enough. I don't want things to come apart going down the road @ 70 mph, as I plan on using this as a daily driver.

Yes a 220 mig is strong enough you will be fine. Post pics as you go. Please.

[xpickup]

Bam, thank you. You are a friend indeed. I wondered if I should have got the .045 or the .062. So now I know. I will order some 1/16 tungsten and a collet and give it a try. That will work.

Shannon
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[FarmerSid]

Hey Bam. Maybe you should tell these guy's what cup size you are using as well as tungsten protrusion and what gas you are using. I have a Miller Dynasty and the cup size, tungsten, tungsten shape and type of tungsten is very different compared to some machines. Oh ya! Before you go and check your jock size, I'm talking about the cup on the Tig torch! LOL!

[mr48chev]

Any weld with any welding system is only as good as the person doing the welding skills are. Knowing what you are doing with the welder is far more important than what welder you are using. My son bounces back and forth between tig, mig and stick welding every day where he works depending on what he is working on. He welds primarily stainless but also does quite a bit of mild steel. His welds are constantly improving and he has done quite a bit of studying on his own on the subject to have a good understanding of it.

As for me I still feel that I can stick weld better than I can weld with my mig but my mig welding is improving little by little. I have never used a Tig but gas weld most of my sheet metal when I have to finish work it.

As far as welding in the crossmeber I'd say that probably 80% of those crossmembers are welded in with mig and the other 20 split between stick and tig.

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by FarmerSid

Hey Bam. Maybe you should tell these guy's what cup size you are using as well as tungsten protrusion and what gas you are using. I have a Miller Dynasty and the cup size, tungsten, tungsten shape and type of tungsten is very different compared to some machines. Oh ya! Before you go and check your jock size, I'm talking about the cup on the Tig torch! LOL!

You as well as I have inverter machines so there is no need to worry about balling the tungsten when you weld aluminum. I sharpen all my tungsten the same.

Like I said, for sheetmetal I use 1/16 Ceriated tungsten and also 1/16 ER70S6 filler wire. The cup size is #5 and the gas is argon. When I sharpen my tungsten I put it in a drill and grind it like a pencil with the use of a bench grinder. There is about a 1/8 stick out (I eyeball it) on my touch but if I need to get into a tight spot I will use more stick out and the walk the cup method such as when I did this.


By the way I've heard that a 50/50 mix Argon/Helium is suppose to be great for aluminum. I've never tried it, its just something I've read and a little curious to try.

[_Ogre]

lincoln 120v flux core did all my frame
if your good, that's all you need


wait, rephrase that,
if your cheap, that's all you have

[Kabwe]

All this while I been thinking that I wanted to learn new things and push my capabilities to improve and grow as a builder. But really it's just because I'm no good at it and have money to burn because I need more than a 120 flux core welder.

Well you learn something new everyday.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

...if your good, that's all you need
wait, rephrase that,
if your cheap, that's all you have

If Necessity is the Mother of Invention, Then Poverty is the Mother of Necessity!

[Dan in Pasadena]

Ogre,

Did you weld in the IFS cross member with 120v Fluxcore? Did you preheat the metal or did you just set the machine on MAX and use thick wire? .035"? Or bigger?

[BlueJeep]

I also have both, and I also really like using the TIG but for a crossmember I'd use my 220 MIG. My reasons for this are the same as others already mentioned.

For sheetmetal I use 1/16 tungsten and .035 MIG wire and I'm happy with those results. Plus, when I need more wire I spool it out of the MIG and I'm ready to go.

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by BlueJeep

For sheetmetal I use 1/16 tungsten and .035 MIG wire and I'm happy with those results. Plus, when I need more wire I spool it out of the MIG and I'm ready to go.

Yeah I know people that use mig wire also.

[_Ogre]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

Ogre,

Did you weld in the IFS cross member with 120v Fluxcore? Did you preheat the metal or did you just set the machine on MAX and use thick wire? .035"? Or bigger?

yes, all my frame mods were done with my 120v fluxcore welder, no preheat, standard 035 wire
fluxcore is what oem's use to weld backing plates, spring pads and shock brackets on to car and truck rearends
yes you have to grind welds but fluxcore is a better and cheaper way to weld steel

i learned to stick weld on pipe, i have also welded with 480v 3 phase 600 amp mig welders
i like my little fluxcore welder, i've had it in man baskets and on tied to a ladder 30 ft in the air
good welds are all about penetration, too little or too much and you have a bad weld
i see a lot of bad welds on this site, scary stuff what people will use to weld a clip or x-member on with
i would never depend on a single pass with a mig welder to hold a front end on

all of my bed mods were done with fluxcore too, including sectioning the 90 new yorker trunk lid
sheet metal can be a challenge but it works
that's it for my fluxcore rant

plus i never run out of gas

[Kabwe]

Man if you like a 120v fluxcore welder use it no one is stopping you so there is no need to rant. I am one who believes you do things your own way. But just because you use it does not make it right or wrong it makes it your way. Period. We all base our opinions based on our experiences. So if a question is asked it may get many different answers and my answer is I don't use fluxcore on my cars and never will. I like welding with gas and if I run out of gas guess what it's fairly easy to get more no big deal. I simply don't care for welding using Fluxcore especially on sheetmetal.

Some people are happy just joining two pieces of metal together others are trying to be artist and others are somewhere in the middle. It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish, and my opinions are always based on what I'm seeking to accomplish. Just as your opinions are based on what you are trying to accomplish. Put it out there and people can either take our suggestions or leave it but its out there for people to decide. But there is really no need for "if your good, that's all you need". Well I guess you are the only one thats good because a lot of people on this site are using 220 welders with gas. Oh yeah I forgot "i see a lot of bad welds on this site, scary stuff what people will use to weld a clip or x-member on with" yeah but that has nothing to do with welding with gas at all. A bad welding job is a bad welding job and it does not matter if its done with mig, fluxcore, or tig. Personally I'm impress by more people on this site than not. I've seen some very impressive work but first time builders and also people who are fairly new to welding. There some talented people on this site and some people who are doing their first builds and everybody has something to share and its all valuable information.

[Dan in Pasadena]

So THERE, Ogre! Piss Bam off, and pay the consequences...ha ha.

I'm kidding; I doubt Bam is pissed off - though it kinda sounds like it.

I think his main point is use what you as an individual are comfortable with...without being judgemental or negative about other's work. Afterall, they're the ones that have to live with it...and I suppose die with it too if it's THAT bad.

Though I am sure there are truly baad welds done with any kind of process, I've fortunately never heard of a failure (yet) that has lead to a death - Thank God.

For me? I asked around, read a lot of internet posts on this site and others, and considered WHO I was taking advice from based on what I'd seen them do. Bam and others clearly do very nice work with a MIG using ArCo2 gas - so that's what I bought and am learning to use. Is my stuff good enough? For me at this stage, yes. I'm proud of trying. I know I'll get better because I won't settle for less. If I ever decide to weld an IFS crossmember in - I'll be calling Bam for a quote or a certified welder because I want to be safe rather than sorry.

Now........everyone go have a nice weekend and please don't be pissing in Bam's Cheerios! (Sorry Bam, I had to. You can get me back later!)