Starting with no key?

[nheller76]

Ok so new problem with my build! I've put a new motor & trans in it and I put the battery in it to prepare for adjusting my values. So I go to put the cables on and it tries to start all on its own! So ignition problem yea but wear should I look? It's got an msd box and blaster coil that a mechanic put it in so I assume ( I know that I might be making an a$$ out of u and me) that it is right. It did run ,badly, before the engine was pulled and the msd was in it? What do I do
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[tex_waco_usmc]

Originally Posted by nheller76

Ok so new problem with my build! I've put a new motor & trans in it and I put the battery in it to prepare for adjusting my values. So I go to put the cables on and it tries to start all on its own! So ignition problem yea but wear should I look? It's got an msd box and blaster coil that a mechanic put it in so I assume ( I know that I might be making an a$$ out of u and me) that it is right. It did run ,badly, before the engine was pulled and the msd was in it? What do I do
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Sounds to me like the starter is getting a signal to start from somewhere. I might check to make sure the starter is wired properly and that the starter is good before I went diving into anything else.

[chengny]

Make sure the purple wire (or it's solderless connector) isn't making contact with either of the reds.

[nheller76]

Originally Posted by tex_waco_usmc

Sounds to me like the starter is getting a signal to start from somewhere. I might check to make sure the starter is wired properly and that the starter is good before I went diving into anything else.

yea starter is brand new and i moved all of the wires around. I even changed the small wire to the other side of the silinoid and im still having the same problem.

[nheller76]

Originally Posted by chengny

Make sure the purple wire (or it's solderless connector) isn't making contact with either of the reds.

Ok the purple wire from the msd box? im not sure were the wires your talking about are?

[nheller76]

I just checked all purple and red wires i could get my hands on and they arnt touching and/or connected.

[nheller76]

ok new update, so i pulled off all the wires and started playing and this is what happened.
-so with the battery cable and the silinoid wire on without the accessory wire it tried to turn over
-switched the silinoid wire to the other side still without the accessory wire same thing
-pulled the silinoid wire off no accessory wire and it started clicking but no turning over
WTF! does this mean i have a bad starter?

[nheller76]

Anybody got any ideas?
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[LynnJr]

It sounds like something is wrong with your ignition switch or the rod running down the side of the steering column.

Did you pinch the wiring while installing the engine?

[nheller76]

Originally Posted by LynnJr

It sounds like something is wrong with your ignition switch or the rod running down the side of the steering column.

Did you pinch the wiring while installing the engine?

See that's what I thought so I checked every wire I could! Nothing! But ate starter still is trying to start without any wires but the battery connected to it?
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[LynnJr]

It could be a bad solenoid on the starter.If the main post on the solenoid has spun it can make contact internally.Take the starter out and run a cable from the battery to the solenoid then put the starters case onto the negative terminal.It shouldn't do anything at all.If it tries to spin its the solenoid or starter.Make sure you don't put your hands near the bendix in case it tries to spin

On new builds it is common for the bendix gear to not release from the flywheel or flexplate on initial start up and it blows up the starter internally when the engine fires.Yours didn't start so I ruled out a blown up starter

The only two times I have ever heard of a starter trying to start without the key it was the ignition wires pinched/melted together and the rod on the side of the steering column was not letting the key shut off completely.

[tex_waco_usmc]

If all you have connected to the starter is the positive battery cable and nothing else and it is trying to spin then the solenoid is shot. If you have no other wires connected then the steering column has been ruled out because there is no other signal on the starter.

[nheller76]

Ok so I've taken the starter out and I found one of the little posts on the silinoid was not screwed in all the way. I then tightened and tried the power cable on the silinoid and the negative on the battery and on the case of the starter. So is the starter a fine or am I a giant tool for not checking my starter over before I put it in?
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[nheller76]

Sorry I didn't put this nothing happened
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[LynnJr]

If it didn't try to start the loose terminal could have been making contact internally and that was your problem.That said the two small terminals one on each side of the cable are soldered to a wire on the inside of the case.Hopefully that hasn't been hurt.When you tighten it down don't let it spin around or the wire will fall off on the inside.

If you have a piece of wire handy you can connect it to the battery cable on the solenoid and then briefly touch it to the little bolt on the solenoid and the bendix should pop out and spin.If it works re-install the starter if it doesn't replace the solenoid.

[nheller76]

Yea I re installed it and having the same issue I think my silinoid is bad I'm gonna get a new on now
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[LynnJr]

If the new solenoid doesn't fix it your ignition wires need to be looked at again.

[Sodell]

Take the starter and have it tested first.

[nheller76]

ok so this is what im doing now, after doing the new solenoid and it still not working i got a new starter! now im not getting anything! so i Just got on the hunt and i tracked both wires that went to the starter back to wear they started. I think they both need to be replaced but does anyone else have any other ideas as to what i need to do. Is the wire that goes to the fuse box my ignition wire? The rod in the steering column sounds good it is still moving when i turn the key and it is resetting when i turn it back so im not sure if that is the problem. Bother of the wires that go to the starter have seen better days so im not sure if that is what needs to be done? anyone got ideas on wear i can get new wires?

[LynnJr]

When you put the key in the ignition and you turn it it pulls the rod that runs alongside the steering column.It ends at a mechanical switch that is screwed to the side of the steering column.That switch tells the ignition it is on and it also tells the solenoid to spin the bendix on your starter.

If the rod is moving freely your key and the rod are just fine.

From the switch to the starter is where your problem is.If the wires are bad you can replace a section at a time using those solderless crimp on connectors.

If that doesn't work look at the switch on your steering column.Is it burned up melted or does it smell bad? There is a little harness that connects to it is the harness okay?

You can test the new starter yourself just like the old one.

[nheller76]

yea i tested the new starter and it works fine so not im replacing the wires, i pulled the negative that hooks up to the ground on the firewall and then the one from the fuse box. Im going to replace them tomorrow and hope that is it!

[Skunksmash]

My old 81 used to not need a key to start. LOL

Imagine my surprise when one day, I was walking in front of my 87 and it... wait for it...

Starts up and runs all by itself with no one in the thing! Needless to say I got to the root of that problem real damn quick.

[nheller76]

That would have been a great hidden camera moment
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[nheller76]

Originally Posted by LynnJr

When you put the key in the ignition and you turn it it pulls the rod that runs alongside the steering column.It ends at a mechanical switch that is screwed to the side of the steering column.That switch tells the ignition it is on and it also tells the solenoid to spin the bendix on your starter.

If the rod is moving freely your key and the rod are just fine.

From the switch to the starter is where your problem is.If the wires are bad you can replace a section at a time using those solderless crimp on connectors.

If that doesn't work look at the switch on your steering column.Is it burned up melted or does it smell bad? There is a little harness that connects to it is the harness okay?

You can test the new starter yourself just like the old one.

Ok so still having the same problem! ive changed both wires, the one that goes to the ground on the fire wall and then one that connects to my wiring harness. Still starting the positive on. Then i pulled the connectors from the switch that attaches to the key rod, still starting. then i pulled the wire that goes to the MSD that connects to the same place as the accessory wire from the fire wall and (no surprise) it still is starting with the positive on. So what do i do now.

Could the battery be bad and some home making the problem happen or could it be the switch on the side of the column? All then wiring looks good and there is no smell, the key moves back and forth just fine and i can hear the clicking that it makes when it is in the on position. is the a fuse that i might have blown that i done now about?

[LynnJr]

If you pulled the harness off of the switch on the side of the steering column and it still turns over the switch is not your problem.

One at a time take the two little wires on each side of the battery cable off the starter solenoid and tape them up so they don't touch and see if it still wants to crank over.If it does it sounds like a bad starter.

If it doesn't you either have a ground problem or the wires from the starter to the harness are touching somewhere along the way most likely were they go through the firewall.Check there first.