472 vs. 283...help me decide!

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm working on a '59 Chevy short fleetside that I'm building into a mild gasser style hot rod. It will be nose up, but not "street freak" high...I'm thinking a 1-2" lift int he front/stock in the rear. I believe the rearend has 3.90's. I originally came up with a '72 Cadillac 472 to be adapted to a Chevy TH400 tranny to power it but I can also buy a '64 Chevelle's 283 4bbl and 3 speed manual tranny for a song. My dilemma is this- WHICH ROUTE TO TAKE??

It pretty much comes down to the 472's massive torque/power vs the 283's ease of installation(100% bolt in) and that it's more authentic to the build style/nostalgic. I guess the truck will be worth more with a Chevy engine, but I'm not planning to sell so not sure how big of a deal that is.

I have the 472/TH400 already so that's a big plus. What do you guys think?

Thanks! -John

[Dan in Pasadena]

If you weren't making it a gasser I'd say 283, no question.

Actually, for me it'd be the 283 no matter what.....but that's because I have one in my
'55 and because the first engine swap I ever participated in was to put one in my Dad's
'59 Fleetside.

[mechanixman]

You said the 472 came with the truck?
How much more work is needed to shoe horn that motor in?
If it's marginally more work, I'd go with the 472. not only do you already have it, but it's different, and it's cool.
Just my two cents.

[Kim57]

472 all the way.
Kim

[nvrdone]

472 - no replacement for displacement

[buggy5872]

472

[Highsider]

472

If my old 1972 Sedan de Ville hadn't become a demo derby champion 20 years ago,
I would consider it in my panel. The first owner had added HEI.

I would put a "modern" 292 in it before the 283.

[63 & 64 Bowties]

I'm in the minority here, but it's because of my age (I'm old enough to draw social security) so I remember the gasser fad well. I love the big block Caddys too, but I can't remember EVER seeing one in a gasser. So, for that reason alone, if you want to go "period correct," I'd go SBC. Just my 2c.

[mr48chev]

For your gasser look plans and the performance angle I'd have to go with the 472. More tire frying power than you can use with any degree of sanity but so very easy to live with when you are just driving. You may want something up in the 3.3 or 3.5 range gear wise though. You may have to figure out the exhaust clearance or run headers but that should be a straight forward installation otherwise.

The 283 would be a bolt in after you got a V8 truck bellhousing to mount to the crossmember and if the truck was already a standard shift truck. They are cute little motors that have a great following and can be built up pretty well but even a stout 283 won't have the power and torque of the 472 and it will have to work a lot harder to produce that power.

The other thing is, and it's none of the business of the rest of us, what will your budget handle. Installing the 472 you already have if it is in good shape and the trans is in good shape and being ready to go or buying, most likely completely rebuilding and then buying speed goodies for the 283? The 283 is most likely a 2 barrel engine so a head change, probably a bore job with new pistons, new cam and lifters and the right intake and carb all have to be added in to that almost cheap starting price. You do end up with a nice looking and sounding engine that is easy to find the add on parts for though. Things like valve covers, headers and other "gasser' pieces are very easy to find and usually fairly inexpensive.

The other thing is that if you know the 472 is good you could sell it to finance a good portion of the redo on the 283.

[curmudgeon]

I too am old enough to remember the gassers when I was in high school, I should have bought up all those tri-5 shoeboxes and Willys when the owners went off to college. Anyways, Gassers were purpose built for drag racing, beam front axles with big engines so my vote is the 472, especially with some kind of air scoop sticking out of the hood, or better yet a Roots type supercharger. Don't forget the fendwell headers into side pipes.

[Highsider]

Originally Posted by curmudgeon

I too am old enough to remember the gassers when I was in high school, I should have bought up all those tri-5 shoeboxes and Willys when the owners went off to college. Anyways, Gassers were purpose built for drag racing, beam front axles with big engines so my vote is the 472, especially with some kind of air scoop sticking out of the hood, or better yet a Roots type supercharger. Don't forget the fendwell headers into side pipes.

You paint a nice picture! I hadn't thought of the straight axles for a time. There was an actual store, Security Suspension, down in So Cal, that did nothing but.

[Jonboy]

I say 472 also. You could just use a BOP TH400 and save the trouble of finding an adapter; the bellhousing bolt pattern will not match from the Cad to a Chevy trans. There are enough Caddy hop up parts around to make it really scream. Also, doesn't the '59 already have a beam axle? You could just change the leaf springs out to get your nose up stance.

[YahamaR1]

472. !!!!

[_Ogre]

you want to drive it or look at it?
big motor guys have to stay home most of the time whining about fuel prices
sbc guys drive their trucks

your 72 cad 472 is rated for 220 hp & 365 ftlb and still got lousy gas mileage (71 was 345 hp & 500 ftlb)
my 350 is rated 350 hp & 400 ftlb and gets 20 mpg

72 was a bad year for hp and torque, the motors were de-tuned to meet emissions that were just coming in to play
in this case big cubes is not necessarily your best choice
i'd go with the 283

(thanks highsider )

[OrrieG]

I love 283's but think the Caddy would be way cool. In the late 60's I looked at buying a 50's studebaker truck that had a caddy engine and auto in it. Friends had a 392 Hemi in a Jeepster, another a nail head Buick in the 49 ford gasser look (staight front axle, fenderwell headers, ladder bars on jacked rearend). you see the trend I am outlining, go for it. If it doesn't work out a SBC is always available.

[c1971]

Considering the type of build I'd go with the 472. If you were going daily driver or restore I'd go 283. Good luck

[CaptainAmerica]

Thanks guys! This is exactly what I was looking for. I have driven the car the 472 came out of, a retired funeral car with 58K miles, and it ran flawlessly. I picked up a rear sump oil pan for it already. I am not sure how it is going to be for clearing the steering column and box, but if I have to move the engine over a bit I will. My neighbor has some BBC fenderwell headers I would convert to work on the Cadillac if I can score them.

My last project was a 454/4 spd powered '66 GMC that nailed 12 whole mpg, not too bad. Hoping this one gets the same or better.

I have a stock beam axle under the front, was thinking of a couple ways to raise it up, but haven't settled on which way yet(maybe another thread when the time comes).

This truck is being built on a pretty tight budget, the money I would pay for the 283 would probly get the 472 in the truck and firing up..

I think the decision has been made- 472 is staying.

Thanks again and I'll start a build thread when there's a bit more done!

-John

[1958Warrior]

If you are planning on rebuilding the 472 with go fast parts, and have the wallet to feed it I vote go for it, But you can achieve the look and get the same HP out of the 283 as a stock HEAVY 472 .
You did say MILD not WILD right , with that in mind I'd say 283, and have a option to go bigger /faster/ Wilder later.

[DransportGarage]

472! A/g!

[CaptainAmerica]

A/g would be it's class..? I used to have the class info but lost it, I did want to paint it on the truck though.

Since the 472 only has 58K miles on it I won't be doing any rebuilding, wanted to do headers and intake, camshaft is a possibility.

[G&R's57GMC]

Check out http://www.sandersonheaders.com/cadillac

Also http://www.cadillacperformanceparts.com

[Daze57]

That caddy place sounds awsome

[DransportGarage]

Originally Posted by CaptainAmerica

A/g would be it's class..? <snip>

Back in the good old days I'm pretty sure that would be it, depending on weight. It might have even been AA/G if you put her on a diet.

[Gippetto]

I am right with you. I witnessed the gasser wars at the Connecticut Dragway along with the Super Stock factory racers of the day. TASCA Ford vs 409 Chevs and Mopar was the draw.

If it was me, I'de build the highest winding small block that I could afford. They have an amazing sound at both ends, idle and red line.

[CaptainAmerica]

Too bad those guys wouldn't donate that Engine Masters Challenge Cadillac! Of course, I couldn't afford the transmission, rearend, and suspension to handle that much power lol