65 c10 Newbie Engine combo advice

[Poulsbo]

Hello,

This is my first post and I'm hoping the master engine builders in this forum can help me avoid some pitfalls with my first 350 build.

I'm working on a 65 c10 fleet side/long. My hope is to eventually do a full restoration...but in the meantime, I want to get it back on the road.

The original 283 has a nasty knock that I think is a spun rod bearing. So I've decided to swap it for a slightly higher performance 350 which I thought would be fun to build myself!

I'm hoping to get a moderate performance engine that is fun to drive with enough HP and torque to light'em up every now and then...but will idle at a stop light.

I bought a junkyard 350. Disassembled, cleaned, checked and machined the block and crank with my local machine shop. Swapped out the old dished pistons for new stock flat-tops. And discovered that the 993 heads were pretty much shot.

So I decided to go with a set of USA assembled Pro Comp aluminum heads. (hoped for performance enhancement on a budget.) (FYI, I've read everything I can on the Pro Comps and rest assured, I will NOT install or run them without the blessing of my machinist. I've also ordered all ARP bolts, studs and guide plates. But, they'll go back to Skip White if they don't pass the test.)

But now, as I start planning for pre-assembly I'm concerned my parts may be mismatched.

My question is, will this engine combo work? Do I need a bigger cam to match with the heads? Any advice is welcome. Here's what I'm working with:

1. 350 SBC / 4-bolt main / bored .060 over (Double checked cylinder thickness...block is sound)
2. Pro Comp 210cc runners / 62cc machined combustion chamber aluminum heads
3. 2.02 Int /1.90 Exh. PBM (Non-magnetic performance valves)
4. Edlebrock Performer 2012 aluminum intake
5. Edlebrock 1405 / 600 cfm manual choke carb
6. Speed-Pro HYD Cam with: .420Int / .442Exh / 278 deg. Int. Duration / 288 deg. Exh. Duration

Thanks for any help.

[storm9c1]

I don't have time to run the numbers, but 62cc heads with flat tops sounds dubious on the compression to me... I'll let others chime in.

[GASoline71]

210cc runners for a mostly driven street engine areway to big. More into the 180cc or even 190cc will be better. Plus they are Pro Comp, which are bottom of the barrel heads. Sorry... just the way it it.

An Edelbrock 2012 manifold?

Gary

[Marv D]

Ok a few questions. Like Storm brought up,, you may be on the edge for pump gas,, or you may not!

Was the block milled at all? Zero decked? or not touched?

The flat tops,, are they the 4 'eyebrow' valve reliefs (typically 3-4cc)? or single DEEP valve relief (one big one small) typically more in the 6cc range.

ASSuming you have NOT decked the block, and ASSuming these are flat tops with 6cc valve reliefs, You have 9.88:1 compression,, zero decked you have 10.48:1
(both assuming your going to use a 0.040" head gasket. Stuff a 0.020" steel shim in it and your over 11:1)

You will not be happy with the 10.48 and large quench of a full 0.025 deck clearance and a 0.040" gasket,, it WILL detonate and be a very pump gas unfreindly motor.

Myself,, I would have rather put $ into the 992's and left the ProComp heads a the freight depo unclaimed! And I HATE putting $ into a old worn out head!!!

Just a suggestion your going to get from most any engine builder,, HEADS are NOT any place to try and SCRIMP on the budget. You get what you pay for there and the heads are 99.9% of what power potential any motor has.

For a street bound 350 you REALLY don't want anything over a 185-190cc head, and that large ONLY of our looking for power and RPM. A 170-180cc head is just about right for a heavy vehicle, tight/ near stock conveter, and street trim( DOT tires, mufflers, 3.x gears and a <30" tire)

To large of a intake runner and the voilocity of the intake charge (at low speeds) is so low fuel atomization falls back to droplets, low volocity stiffles cylinder filling, and THAt kills low speed torque. NOT what you want to happen in a heavy vehicle on the street.

The old Dart Sportsman, Edelbrock RPM heads are a OK street head, Edelbrock E-tec if your willing to go the Vortec route...
stepping up... AFR is an EXCELLENT CHOICE and typically offers more potential than most are looking for.

[Poulsbo]

Marv, thanks for the detailed response. I really appreciate the education.

Rookie mistake. And no real harm done. The shipping is a small price to pay for the education.

But to make sure I'm clear, changing to a bigger lift cam or higher CFM carb isn't going to help. Correct?

BTE, The block had been previously decked. I'll check height today and report back.

In the meantime, I need to start shopping for new heads in the 170-190 cc range.

Cheers

[bbcmudtruck]

+1 for the AFR heads. The AFR 180cc with 65cc chambers will be the ticket. I am on my second set of AFR heads and they are literally a work of art. However if you go to spending that much money on heads, you'd wanna rethink the rest of your engine package. My suggestion:

First thing on the list would be to cancel any and everything you ordered from Skip White. He has more negative than positive dealings on the internet. Seems like the people who are happy with him just got lucky!

AFR 180s in either 65cc or 75cc. Confirm the compression ration before you order heads.
RPM Performer or RPM Air Gap. I like the air gaps, other's don't, either one will work.
Lunati Voodoo Cam kit either Part # LUN-10120702lk or Part # LUN-10120703LK
A good converter around 2000-2400 will make that motor a very fun cruiser.
That Eddy carb will work, but if you haven't already bought it, check out the 670 avenger from Holley.

[burnin oil]

Originally Posted by bbcmudtruck

+1 for the AFR heads. The AFR 180cc with 65cc chambers will be the ticket. I am on my second set of AFR heads and they are literally a work of art. However if you go to spending that much money on heads, you'd wanna rethink the rest of your engine package. My suggestion:

First thing on the list would be to cancel any and everything you ordered from Skip White. He has more negative than positive dealings on the internet. Seems like the people who are happy with him just got lucky!

AFR 180s in either 65cc or 75cc. Confirm the compression ration before you order heads.
RPM Performer or RPM Air Gap. I like the air gaps, other's don't, either one will work.
Lunati Voodoo Cam kit either Part # LUN-10120702lk or Part # LUN-10120703LK
A good converter around 2000-2400 will make that motor a very fun cruiser.
That Eddy carb will work, but if you haven't already bought it, check out the 670 avenger from Holley.

Those Vodoo cams are awesome but go with the smaller one. I have the larger one listed in my 400 currently and it has one hell of an idle. Streetable but definatley not a docile driver without a low gear in the axle. Getting it to purr and drive down low definatley takes a good carb tuner to keep it from surging and running pig rich. The vacuum is just low enough to make tuning the carb and ignition a see saw battle. The larger solid Isky was way easier to dial in As far as power out put goes it is fun. I noticed yesterday that both main springs are bent on my truck and they are 8 months old!

A good budget aluminum head is available from Jegs. They run real well and will save a handfull of cash over AFRs.

Most people sat to avoid the airgap for a street motor, especially up north. The intake charge runs cold and tends to have issues with fuel falling out of suspension at lower engine speeds. They work well on the track when you want to ice the manifold.

[Poulsbo]

Thank you all for the great advice. I'll check out the Lunati cams and send back the ProComp heads immediately.

In the meantime, I'll confirm the cylinder volume, deck clearance and piston displacement. Then I'll do a "what if" analysis of the compression ratio (CR) with a number of head gasket and combustion chamber size options. Sound right?

What I'm discovering is that I should probably be shooting for a static CR of somewhere in the 8 to 9:1. Do you guys agree?

Also, I will definitely pick a head with below 190cc runners! I'm looking at the Edelbrock E-Street 5073 heads. 185cc runners / 70cc combustion chamber. Sound better?

Thanks again!

[Poulsbo]

Another cylinder head question.

Other than the weight reduction...is there any real performance enhancement with Aluminum over cast iron?

Starting to think maybe a cast iron option would be okay.

Any thoughts?

[Marv D]

Heat is power

So in 'theory' you can make more power with a iron head than a aluminum head being the aluminum will no tretain heat as well as the iron.

In reality.... almost no one (save the GM Bowtie) puts much development into a iron head. (99% of the Dart and Motown iron heads are clones of old Bowtie heads, or the early Brownfield ports, or a spec head to meet some class rule)

So reasons FOR aluminum....
1.
Aluminum heads are REPAIRABLE. Have a catostrophic failure with a iron head and it's frequently a door stop. I've repaired a number of aluminum heads that experienced MASSIVE engine failure slamming pistons and pieces into the head and you wouldn't know anything ever happened after the welding, milling, and freshening.
2.
An aluminum piece is MUCH easier to modify, and if you screw up, or have a porous area, you simply weld a bit back and grind some more.
3.
Because only a few classes dictate an iron head, and those class rules dictate a particular spec.... most of the aftermarket offers only a variants of a spec head,, anything with any real 'over the top' potential is almost always aluminum.
4.
As you found out with the procomps... aluminum is more popular than iron and sells easier.


Oh, and just one note on the reparable thing. As much as I am a HUGE advocate of AFR heads. The material AFR uses is a sore spot with most shops that weld / repair aluminum heads. It is one of the HARDEST aluminum heads to weld and get a good cohesive mix of the metals. 'Aluminum' comes in as a multitude of alloys. Whatever it is AFR uses,, is not real popular with the shops welding and repairing them,, but it can be repaired, just make SURE you have a competant welder do the work.