A/C When Pulling The Motor

[magwakeenercew2jh]

Paid the taxes 2013 today....That means, among other things, that the motor rebuild is on....Good thing, too. The 062 heads are already done and sitting at the machine shop.



I'm going to pull the hood and send the hinges out for a rebuild. I''m planning on pulling the trans and engine together. Then, I thought I might to pull the serp set up and lay all
the chunks aside. Much like I did when I screwed up last time and had to pull the motor after the initial install.... because the freeze plugs only *looked* good.

Then, I thought, "After draining and disconnecting most everything, why not pull the whole thing, serp set up and all?"

Question about the A/C :

Is it a big deal (environmentally or otherwise) with 134a if I just crack the a/c lines and let the V/A gas loose? Then go back after the transplant and evacuate and then re-charge?..
...I have to pull the lines anyway, since I have the gift of a nice, freshly a black anodized, ball-milled firewall VA block-off plate I'm going to install.

If there's good reason not to pull the a/c lines as they sit, I'll head over and have the gas trapped at the a/c place.....for $100.

If not, I'll let'er rip when I get to (re)pulling the motor.

[67c10rustbuket]

Last time I had a vehicle evacuated it cost me $20 about 4 years ago I think. The home evac method is frowned upon and I would imagine Kalifornia has drones with freon sensors flying around . I cant say what the environmental impact would be but I do work for a large HVAC manufacturer and have seen plenty of freon released into the air.. not on purpose though. I have not noticed any global warming at work or witnessed any spontaneous combustion of coworkers either.. Seriously though I think there are some laws and hefty fines if your are caught but...., I think this is one of those don't ask don't tell things. like don't tell your neighbors you fed his cats a bowl of antifreeze.

[DirtyLarry]

If it wasn’t for the fact you want to install the firewall thing and have to open the lines anyway I would say just tie the compressor up somewhere and not even bother cracking the lines then leave the rest of the accessories on the engine. I typically always pull engines with accessories still bolted to them, especially light engines like small blocks or a V6, but I tie up the A/C compressor under the hood and never crack a line. Being you are going to open the lines anyway, just let her rip and let the refrigerant go and don’t tell anybody, like in a public forum

It is irresponsible for a place of business to use such a practice but think about all of the auto accidents that happen every day where condensers are smashed open while releasing refrigerant into the atmosphere. If loosing refrigerant into the atmosphere was such a huge catastrophe you would think the feds would require auto manufacturers to engineering a method of making a leak and crash proof A/C systems. Maybe all of the loose R134A floating around the atmosphere is why here are no more unicorns. I dunno…. Of course, in the Republic of Kalifornia you can’t even fart without a catalytic converter in your Fruit of a Looms. Better not let your neighbor hear the A/C line hissing once you crack it open

Never cracked a line on this Suburban. Subs with rear A/C hold A LOT of refrigerant and I didn’t want to waste any




PS.....I would not recommend pulling the trans and engine together. That is a great way to loose a lot of ATF on your driveway causing more catastrophe to the environment and pulling the radiator support is a huge waste of time but that is just me. Pull the engine over the rad support then it will take you about 10 minutes to drop the trans down by itself. That is my method.....Cleaner that way.

[magwakeenercew2jh]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

l Pull the engine over the rad support then it will take you about 10 minutes to drop the trans down by itself. That is my method.....Cleaner that way.

Got ya....

I guess the main reason I wanted to leave the trans connected is how much easier it is to take it apart after they are pulled out together; and, to get the "click-click-click" correctly lined up,
and then bolted up, while the trans and "new" engine are sitting separately on blocks on the floor of the garage before they go back in.

I think there's a strong possibility my previously "new", and now leaking, rear main was caused by stabbing the trans in when the trans and engine were trying to mate from underneath
one of the two times I had the trans out for leaks before I drove ten feet. Or, maybe the time we pulled the motor separately from the trans (a couple of days later) to change out those freeze plugs...
...even with two guys down there and both of us being very careful.

So, you'd say the best drill is to loosen the trans/engine where they mate to the back of the block....Is that *after* draining the trans, dropping the tranny cross member, unbolting the torque
converter from the flex plate, and pulling the driveshaft?......Then cherry-picking the engine by itself (obviously after disconnecting everything, including the motor mount bolts) ?

Doesn't that create some possible "hanging" up that might be rough on that rear main seal?...And the same on the way back in?

Probably a (some) stupid question(s).....Ones I thought I would completely avoid by pulling the engine and trans together...And I think that works room-wise with the trans attached without pulling
the radiator, (electric) fans, core support, and misc A/C components (dryer, lines, and condenser). That is, if I pull the accessories and serp brackets and goodies.

I guess I'm just afraid of going at the tranny in a Fred Flinstone gorilla method and breaking or scoring seals..or something...coming out. Or, even worse, when it's going back in.

And, thanks for the advice on the 134a......I thought it might be made of rose-pedal scent or something non-ozone killing. I'll take proper action.

[67c10rustbuket]

Originally Posted by magwakeenercew2jh

And, thanks for the advice on the 134a......I thought it might be made of rose-pedal scent or something non-ozone killing. I'll take proper action.

Its made of fairy dust and the supply is diminishing..

The new stuff R134A is supposed to be less harmful to the environment yet at the same time they (gov) tightens up the regulations for proper disposal and tax the crap out of R12 So you cant afford it. Same deal with residential/commercial (buildings) R410A, R407C vs R22 same but different... Really there are probably thousands of different refrigerants. If you vent it... on the subject of oil, well the oil is carried by the freon so if you cut a line you lose oil, if you create a tiny leak the oil stays, mostly. The collision guys have specific recharge amounts for oil based on crash damage. the more important part (at least what they tell you in commercial) is to plug all components once freon is removed. This is because the oil is (probably going to butcher the word) hydroscopic: "absorbs moisture". Why do you care? your PAG oil absorbing moisture can coagulate and clog (turn to fatty mush) the system and fail to lubricate. So what ever you do put some rubber plugs, plastic cap plugs etc in the hose ends, compressor fittings etc. It is much easier to drain an automotive AC compressor than try to flip a Copeland Scroll compressor over to drain and replace the POE oil.... But I can say I have used a used Automotive compressor that was stored open and drained and replaced the oil without issue.. The deal with evac'ing the system (using a vacuum pump) is to suck down the atmosphere to remove atmospheric moisture and better accept the freon charge. Yet I have charged a vehicle without a vacuum pump and it worked great. I guess it can depend on your climate (humidity). When working on an open system whether brazing or screw on fittings we use a nitrogen purge (dry air nitrogen) to displace oxygen for oxidization (copper oxide dust inside) and nitrogen displaces atmospheric air (think moisture/humidity). Sorry for the lesson and I may not be 100% accurate due to fluid ingestion and BTW I was born in Kalifornia, no hard feelings although pelosi could fall off a cliff...

[Lattimer]

Years gone by refrigerant was cheap and everybody just let it go. Then all of the environmental stuff began. Now its very illegal to let it out. If anybody saw it, could mean a hefty fine.

As for hurting the environment-----that 1 lb or so of 134a is like peeing in the ocean. I once watched a failed mechanical seal on a chiller compressor dump about 3000lbs of R-22 into the air in a few minutes. The isolation valves were so old we couldn't get them to close and we lost the whole charge. That caused me a lot of paperwork.

[Terry Crist]

I would not just let it go. I believe there are also oils in their for lubrication. That can make quite a mess.

[terry b]

Crack one line open and let it out real slow and you wont loose any oil. By slow i mean where you can hardly hear it.

[Tom Vogel]

Bill;
Theres an old 400 small block sitting in the barn. You can have it for free if you want it and could put your heads on it and make way better torque and power I think, Also, they could be building this and you could keep driving your 350 in the mean time. Just a thought.
FWIW, Tom

[67ChevyRedneck]

People lose A/C refrigerant from legitimate leaks every single day. Crap happens.

$100 is expensive. You're pretty much giving them free R134. Are they "saving it" for you for a recharge? (what are they going to charge you to recharge?)

I just had my Mustang's new V/A A/C evacuated and filled this past summer for $120 (most of the cost was the R134) so $100 to suck it out seems high, especially if they're not saving it for you to reuse.

Also, as mentioned above, it is very important you cap off or plug all openings you make in the A/C system.