paint issues and thoughts

[bojak]

My truck was repainted I'm assuming with a single stage paint at some point in its life. Fire dept red. I'm now having areas and spots where the paint is flaking off down to the metal. So I think its actually an original paint or primer issue but not sure. It is just hear and there in small spots. Biggest one is the size of a quarter. Was there issues with factory paint in 89? Or is it some relationship between the two types of paint? The answer will help me figure out how to move forward regarding my paint.
option1- if it will never be right untill I have it stripped down to bare metal then I will do some spot addressing and then some sort of diy paint job as a 5 yr fix until I could possibly afford a frame off restoration.
Option2- if these areas can be spot adressed to a level of confidence then I could cosider a medium levels paint job. I've had quotes of 3k to 5k. While not show car level, just presentable which is all I really want. Problem is that is still a lot of money to me. I would hate to drop that for a paint job with an issue underneath waiting to show up again.

So any first hand experience would be appreciated to help me sort through my options.

[old Rusty C10]

there were issues with clear coats peeling up particularly with the blue and silver. Im going to move to paint and body work tho for better and more answers

[bojak]

It was originally blue so I am in that category. Is it terminal doc?

[BR3W CITY]

In the late 80's and early 90's a few different auto makers had problems with some metallic blues and silvers (as well as light blues and a few light greens that used silver as a base).

Chevy issued a TSB 231054 about paint failure issues in like 1995. They had an epoxy primer that was over-hard and when the topcoats were applied, they didn't always adhere fully to the primer. I read something that said they used a water-based paint, but I don't know if there is truth to that (I didn't think they were using it in the 80's).
Essentially the stuff delaminates after a while.

You could just spot fix the areas, but the whole car was painted the same way and there is no way to know which spots are at risk for loss of adhesion.

[hugger6933]

silvers and blues were only a few of the colors. I did GM repaints in my bodyshop for the local Chevrolet dealership. there were two different problems that the General had going at the same time one was clear coat degradation and the other was paint delamination. The problem your truck is having could be a problem related to delam. Delam is when the paint fails to adhere to the primer coat. The fix the General and all the wise ones from Detroit came up with was to scrape all the lose paint that we could from the truck and then sand the primer coating that was left on there and then reapply a self etch primer. At that time I don't know that the epoxy had made it on the market if it had been it was never presented to us to use as something that warranty would go along with.
The test we would do for the Delam would be real difficult. we would take a strip of 3M 3/4 inch masking tape about four inches long place it on the panel that had paint coming off of it sometime on the edge of the open paint area then press the tape down just as if we were taping it off. Then we would pull the tape, if a bunch came off it failed and went on the repaint waiting list.
Now not always did the entire truck/car get a full repaint. Sometimes it might have a color that was considered a nondelam color, or if it had a taped two tone line and the lower did not fail the delam test it would not get a repaint.
The only way to do the repaints right and NOT take a chance of being sued by the General for not doing these properly was to follow their outline on how they wanted it repainted, hey they were paying for it [not very much] but they did pay. Each paint [repaint]paid about $1200 to $1500 bucks for a full sized truck back then with them providing the two tone stripes. I had the owner of the Chevy dealer who acted like it was his money always trying an angle a way to beat someone say to me can't you reuse those dang stripes? Do you know how much they cost me? I said yes they cost you nothing stop your griping,or look for some other shop. He backed off then no body else would or could do it in this area cause I was/ am the only with the paint booth the General required in their list of demands.

Now back to you . You say it is bare metal but it is most likely the primer the factory used back in the day. After it is exposed to sunlight it turns to a color that looks just like bare metal, the way to tell is to rub your finger on it if it has a chalky like stuff left on your fingers it is the prime. That is gonna mean the only way to a proper paint is to strip it down to the primer and then sand that primer with 80 grit then 220 grit then 2 to 3 coats of epoxy primer then 2 to 3 coats of high build primer block it out and then respray the color then the clear. Oh yeah, if you have body work to do the time would be between the epoxy primer and the high build, like I suggest in all my post asking for help or order of preps. good luck and happy sanding. Maybe next time some one will need help with the problem of clear coat degradation. Mostly that was regulated to Oldsmobiles and Pontiacs and Chevy full sized cars. Jim

[bojak]

Jim-I appreciate the thorough answer and advice. Looks like its gonna be spot fix and paint myself. I have a good plan on my spot fixes now thanks to you.

[hugger6933]

Your welcome information is key and knowledge is power. You say your plan includes a spot fix. with a repaint already on top of the factory finish that has adhesion issues you may have trouble with frying[paint not playing well with the coats underneath]. also make sure the paint that is there is adhering well and is not in the sun. Then do a tape test like the General had me do hundreds of times. do it is several places just to be sure the paint is tight then the green light is yours. Jim

[MikeS.]

We had a 92 Astro van, it delaminated the 1st year we had it. Just 1 of the mant problems we had with that POS.