Body filler?

[BigBlock67]

Has anyone used a product called All-Metal? What do you think of it? Is there anything out there that you think is better? I'm repairing everything by welding in patches and only useing the putty for a skim coat.

[70LonghornCST]

Hi BigBlock67! I moved this post to the Paint and Bodywork section to help you get some specialized help.

[Beuford]

I've used it before. It is almost like J B Weld. It works alot harder than finish filler. You will probably still need to use a sandable, finish filler over it real thin to feather it out.

[skip99]

I think the name is a little misleading,,,it means it sticks to all metals, not that it has some metal property to it, id reccommend duraglass over your welded areas, followed by regular bondo, rage or. 3m platinum

[hugger6933]

Short strand fiberglass or fiberstrand as it is called is a filler based fiber product that is waterproof. It should go against all welded areas that require filler to avoid rust issues. Jim

[MARTINSR]

Ok, let me open a can of worms here. You are kidding yourself if you use anything but regular "bondo" over welded seams.

First off, NONE of these products are "water proof" as they say on the can. Call the Evercoat tech line as I did, ask about the "water proof" properties of Everglass or one of the others and you will see that it is "water proof" once it's covered with primer and paint! I laughed and told him "a loaf a bread is water proof if you cover it with primer and paint" he laughed too and agreed.

All Metal, Everglass, Kitty Hair, Tiger Hair or any other "reinforced" filler is simply Chocolate Chip ice-cream instead of simple Vanilla (bondo). That's all it is, POLYESTER BODY FILLER just regular old polyester body filler with some chopped up fiberglass strands, or metal powder dumped in it! That is ALL it is, done deal nothing more to talk about.

So, it is NOT water proof anymore than any other body filler.

If you are spot welding a seam together, and not completely welding it putting ALLMETAL or any other pretend superior filler over it, it's NOT going to seal out the seam! If you epoxy prime it first, front and back, then seam seal the back side and fill the front with "Bondo" you are sealing it off. If of course you weld the seam completely now THAT is how you seal something off properly. But it can't be done like that every time, it is even a waste of time to do that on some things like a floor panel. Spot welding a floor panel lap weld then seam sealing it after primer is a perfectly fine way to seal a seam.

But if it's a body panel like a quarter patch panel and you are spot welding it and putting filler right over that, you WILL see that seam thru the paint and filler one day, if only a "ghost line" you WILL see it. If it isn't protected properly from the back side you WILL likely see it fail completely. You really do want to weld those types of seams completely so there is non chance to get anything coming thru them. And any magic filler over the top WILL NOT stop it from failing.

Brian

[skip99]

Duraglass
http://www.uschem.com/index.cfm?page...ctDetail&id=52

Is not made by evercoat. Ive used it for years over welded seams, on black projects....never had a problem, however i will say, that i try to completely weld a seam though, and usually just use duraglas as insurance in case i had a pin hole or something...

[MARTINSR]

I have sent them an email to have them explain what "waterproof" means. It does NOT mean what you would think. It's not going to rust, it's not going to fail it's SELF, nope it won't. But it also won't protect the metal from rust where water get to it. Let's say that pin hole, water gets in from the back, what is any filler going to do that is stuck to the bare metal? It's not going to do anything, the moisture will get in under it, just like a chip in paint. Your paint is waterproof too, but if you chip that paint it WILL rust, right? And it will rust under the chip, with the paint falling off around it, but it's waterproof, but the water isn't attacking the paint, it's attacking the metal under it.

If you have pin holes, seal it from the back.

Now, I understand it is better than regular filler, but it's more about its strength than it is it being "waterproof". I have some amazing things done with this and it's nearly identical distant cousin Evercoats Kitty Hair or Everglass (depending on how much glass strands are in it, I forget with the Duraglass). I have seen rust filled with it and it held out for another year of use or something keeping something on the road a little longer saving some bucks. But to put it over nicely prepared metal is honestly doing nothing.

Brian

[MARTINSR]

Let me clarify my rant please. Will using a fiberglass reinforced product over a questionable surface, be it possible rust pits or holes or weld pin holes etc. be better than regular "bondo" filler? YES it is, let me make that clear. YES it is better. If God for bid you have to fill something more than you would like (we have all been there) or along a door edge on the quarter or something where for what ever reason you aren't going to pull the metal out where it should be, is a fiberglass reinforced product going to be better than regular "bondo" YES, YES I don't mean to sound like it's a bad choice or anything like that.

What I am saying is it isn't doing as much as I once thought in that it is NOT protecting the metal like an application epoxy primer or something, it just isn't. It can add to the quality of the repair, especially if you epoxy primed it first before applying the fiberglass reinforced filler. And then seam sealed the back side, darn tootin that is a big improvement over filling it with regular "bondo" over bare metal!

But it isn't doing as we once thought, it just isn't.

Brian

[skip99]

Martin, ill bet you were president of the debate team , right lol!
You are right, but i think you are creating confusion,
As far as the original post. The guy asked about all metal, me and hugger just steered him towards a better product, which is what he asked for.

If you can get to the back of a repair, then sure, epoxy, seam sealer, undercoat, its all great and the best. But you seem to want to bash duraglas and others.
If i put duraglas on the back of a repair, totally covering the metal repair, even a few holes, then go to the topside and do the same, id think its pretty waterproof, seeing as how ive built and repaired boats with the stuff,

Yes, i know...but there's no metal in the boat hull to rust....its still waterproof, which is what you seemed to debate.

So, for the original poster. Lets assume you have searched and read old posts about , bare metal, epoxy, bondo on metal, bondo on epoxy, etc etc, all the great info posted by martinsr and others. And all you simply wanted to know is....is there something better? Then yes, you have been answered, have fun!

[turp mcspray]

The bad thing about All Metal, is it uses a clear hardner, so mixing can be tricky. And it has a short shelf life.

[Gumby]

some of those "metal" fillers are done or used to keep metal like properties, like in powder coating. It would not stick to bondo right.

[MARTINSR]

[quote=skip99;6567965]Martin, ill bet you were president of the debate team , right lol!
You are right, but i think you are creating confusion,
As far as the original post. The guy asked about all metal, me and hugger just steered him towards a better product, which is what he asked for.

If you can get to the back of a repair, then sure, epoxy, seam sealer, undercoat, its all great and the best. But you seem to want to bash duraglas and others.
If i put duraglas on the back of a repair, totally covering the metal repair, even a few holes, then go to the topside and do the same, id think its pretty waterproof, seeing as how ive built and repaired boats with the stuff,

Yes, i know...but there's no metal in the boat hull to rust....its still waterproof, which is what you seemed to debate.

So, for the original poster. Lets assume you have searched and read old posts about , bare metal, epoxy, bondo on met

[BigDan3131]

The main thing I use metal to metal and the like is its the only thing I know of that you can use over lead without it lifting off.

[MARTINSR]

[quote=MARTINSR;6569597]

Originally Posted by skip99

Martin, ill bet you were president of the debate team , right lol!
You are right, but i think you are creating confusion,
As far as the original post. The guy asked about all metal, me and hugger just steered him towards a better product, which is what he asked for.

If you can get to the back of a repair, then sure, epoxy, seam sealer, undercoat, its all great and the best. But you seem to want to bash duraglas and others.
If i put duraglas on the back of a repair, totally covering the metal repair, even a few holes, then go to the topside and do the same, id think its pretty waterproof, seeing as how ive built and repaired boats with the stuff,

Yes, i know...but there's no metal in the boat hull to rust....its still waterproof, which is what you seemed to debate.

So, for the original poster. Lets assume you have searched and read old posts about , bare metal, epoxy, bondo on met

What in the hell happened to my original post? This is NOT what I posted!