Serious Heat Soak

[Turtleman]

FreakyMalo Posted in this topic http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...66#post5504566

I found a much simpler solution to the F*rd solenoid. Replace your battery cables with welding cable. The type for a stick welder. It's heavy gauge and designed to carry a lot of amps.
I had the hot start issue; mine would slowly drag the starter and sometimes a jump would help but most times not. I redid the cables and had zero issues for 5+ years after that and the temps go 100+ here in the summer. I soldered my terminals on with a propane torch and rosin-core solder for a more corrosion-resistant connection. Be sure and use rosin-core because it's acid free. Find it at any Radio Shack.

The difference is in the filaments. Automotive battery cables have a few dozen fairly heavy filaments inside while the welding cable has a bazillion little tiny ones. When the electrons travel down the cable, they travel along the surface of the wires not through the middle. Smaller filaments provide more surface area, allowing more amperage to pass through.

The best part: you won't have all that extra stuff bolted to your firewall.
__________________

How many have actually done it this way?...
Avoiding the remote solenoid and getting away with just another type of cable?
IF you've used just another Cable (welding cable), what gauge , type and composition did you use?
I clearly do have a Heat Soak Issue and I'm not really interested in adding a remote solenoid so it seems another cable is a great option,,, IF it would work in our Heats we have here..

[franken]

Clean your cable ends.
Run the ground to the block.
Try putting jumper cables from the battery to the starter and see if the problem doesn't go away.

[Turtleman]

Clean your cable ends.
Run the ground to the block.

Done and Done

Almost impossible to get a Jumper cable end on the solenoid/starter.. More so when its Hot, least I burn more skin off my arms and hands,, its that tight next to the headers.. I would add a shield but there's not enough room.
It's really a easy start unless it's gotten to the "Heat" point.. then it just wont start until I sit for awhile and let it cool down.. hence the real issue.. I live in Arizona,, we hit 112 today, add sitting in your truck at a parking lot waiting for something to cool down so you can start it....... well,,, you might be sitting awhile.. LOL
If someone has resolved this issue using just another cable I'd really like to know what gauge/composition of cable they used.

[starterman99]

it is recomended when using welding cable to go with 1 or 2 sizes larger cable depending on length.GM recomended replacing the solenoid plunger spring with a lighter spring on motorhomes with 454 that had the heat soak problem.it helped but did not always cure the problem.you could use one of the new gm mini starters,they are quite a bit smaller so would have more clearance and are higher torque than the old large direct drive starters.

[Sklptrljay]

I just ran into this issue. I used a little 30 amp relay just like you would use for a headlight relay. The culprit in a hot start for our trucks is usually the 12v ignition wire.

I put the relay behind the battery where you can't even see it, ran 10 ga. wire to the starter solenoid, and I haven't had a heat soak non start since.

[Turtleman]

Originally Posted by Sklptrljay

I just ran into this issue. I used a little 30 amp relay just like you would use for a headlight relay. The culprit in a hot start for our trucks is usually the 12v ignition wire.

I put the relay behind the battery where you can't even see it, ran 10 ga. wire to the starter solenoid, and I haven't had a heat soak non start since.

Well SPIT!
Now I've opened the preferable can of worms.. Ignition Wire Huh?.. LOL
The Previous Owner installed a fan behind the radiator.. But!,, he wired the fan into the ignition wire and use's a toggle switch to run it.. he never wired it up to a thermostat..When I drive around and the temp gains I toggle the switch on and temps hold or drop a little... BUT!,, you have to toggle the switch OFF before you turn the key off or the circuit wont break and the motor will keep running..
Its always the case when troubleshooting.. isolate, test, move to the next step..
Shouldn't I be disconnecting the fan and see if I still have the problem first?
If I still have the problem then add another cable?
If I still have the problem add the 30 amp relay?
LOL... I'm grabbing at straws here and I'm not really the type to go replace allot of things to see if something sticks

All I want is my truck to start when I need it to so I don't cook in a parking lot some were..

[66pnl]

Pretty sure he meant crank wire not ignition wire. I use a 12ga. Crank wire and 2ga. Positive and ground cables. And given up using headers - just too much headache.

[ray_mcavoy]

Originally Posted by Turtleman

FreakyMalo Posted in this topic http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...66#post5504566

Just for the record, that's known as the "skin effect" and only pertains to alternating current (especially at higher frequencies). It's not an issue with direct current. More info on the subject here --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect

Welding cable simply uses that type of construction (large number of fine strands) to make it more flexible. And one potential drawback to using welding cable for your battery cables is the fact that the insulation usually isn't oil resistant. The insulation on welding cable will often swell up and deteriorate with prolonged exposure to oil.

[Turtleman]

Well Spit.. (again).. I seem to be doing allot of that here,, and I dont even chew!

First I'd really like to thank each of you for the replies,, all of you have been really helpful to me.

Considering the topic I first quoted and with the info posted here, I'm guessing that the Remote Solenoid is about my only option to keep me from cooking in Arizona Parking Lots. The solenoid isnt really what I want to do but it seems that will have to do if a larger gauge "True" Battery Cable doesn't work..

Thanks folks.

[franken]

No, GM sold millions of cars, trucks, etc. and not one of them, even in AZ had a Ford solenoid.
You can use a bandaid, or troubleshoot the actual problem. Nothing against Ford.

Let's start at the beginning.
"Heat soak," is slow crank, or rrr, rrr.
No sound, or click, click is another issue.

Which is the case here?

[Turtleman]

Normally,,, turn the key and a split second its running.. even cold,, never a problem.
Stop and go traffic or drive enough to have the temps hit over 190/210
If I stop and turn it off.... then try to start I hear one click but thats it.
After a while the temp drops (180's) and Boom! starts up just fine.
The click I hear does Not sound like the solenoid plunger or the normal tic tic tic solenoid's do
This might sound odd,, but the only sound I hear reminds me of a small electric toy motor winding up..

[Sklptrljay]

Originally Posted by 66pnl

Pretty sure he meant crank wire not ignition wire. I use a 12ga. Crank wire and 2ga. Positive and ground cables. And given up using headers - just too much headache.

Sorry, yes the ignition wire is pink and goes to the distributor. I was talking about the wire to the solenoid that is purple.

Your issue is the same as mine, the solenoid will not engage when it's hot because it has a high resistance. Not a slow crank, but nothing at all is a resistance problem. Running a relay like I did delivers more amperage to the solenoid.

[Turtleman]

Well the only 10 gauge wire I have that goes to the solenoid comes out of the firewall and runs along the firewall and down to the solenoid.. there's a connector at the firewall and I haven't been able to find where it goes to inside the cab,, once inside the cab its a total rats nest

[Turtleman]

If I have something thats been hacked/patched I think I'm always better to restore.. Unless this is really correct?.. I dont know...If this is right shouldn't I cut that red wire and run it to the 30 amp relay then run the other side to the solenoid?

http://192.111.155.173/~rsigrowk/chev/wire.jpg

[66pnl]

That's the headlamp/alternator harness which shouldn't have a circuit going to the starter. The purple crank wire should be coming out of the firewall connector above the passenger side valve cover. If it hasn't been changed it will be a 16ga wire and it will be attached to the small terminal closest to the engine on the solenoid. ( The terminal on the outside of the solenoid goes to the positive side of the coil and provides full 12v to the coil while cranking the engine - this is assuming you still have a points dist. If it's hei this wire isn't used ). That purple wire is the circuit that needs to be up graded to a heavier ga. And/or install a relay. A heavier wire has always been enough in my experience. Working backwards from the solenoid the crank wire goes to the neutral safety switch then to the ignition switch ( assuming your truck is an automatic ). And yes, it sounds like your harness is hacked up. If a rewire is in the budget, now is a good time for it.

[Turtleman]

Cool.... Everyone's been very informative...
I've isolated the entire purple crank wire so a upgrade to a larger (10 or 12 gauge) wire is going to happen. I crawled around to remove the crank wire only to find that my fat fingers cant get close to the terminal,, let alone a wrench.. so far it seems the only way to access the solenoid is to remove the headers.. Normally,, not a problem for me.. here's the deal!, the previous owner had them welded on all the way back to end of the exhaust.
Nothings ever easy is it!

In the mean time,, I'll splice the purple 16 gauge crank wire and add a 30amp relay and hope for the best.

[VetteVet]

Here's how to wire the relay.




Mount the relay on the firewall near the starter.

The voltage wire from the battery positive terminal can be ran from the solenoid where the positive cable connects. Then to the no. 30 on the relay.

Run the purple wire to the no.86 on the relay.
Ground the no.85
Run the 87 to the solenoid S terminal.