getting ready to start a frame swap on a 58....

[no1udknow]

Hey guys,
I have a 58 and I was given a a 2wd 85 c10 lwb for a donor. Talked to the guy over at ez-chassis swaps already, but once I told him I didn't really have the money for his kit at the moment he became a little less helpful. I would like to hear from anyone who has done a square body swap. I have seen many guys do the 67-72, read all about caprice front ends, s10 swaps, but I really just want input from guys that have done the same swap I am attempting even if it is 4x4. I know about the front track width, and I am not at all interested in using the stock frame.
I am mostly concerned with cab/bed/front end mounting. I have a plan in the future for shortened control arms but am going to run narrow tires up front for now. I will be doing pics/videos for this build because I feel like no one else really has and I want to save the next guy some trouble.

Thanks in advance!

[57taskforce]

Mine is on an 88 k5 frame/motor/running gear. If you can weld and have a bit of an imagination it's not a horrible job.(maybe I'm weird but I enjoyed it) My father in law has a stock 85 4x4 sitting next to my 57. I can compare the two and give you my opinions if you like. Here is a 6 month old pic of my truck.( it doesn't normally sag in the rear, in the pic it's got a set of tires,np205 transfer case,turbo 350, full front 1/4" plate bumper, and some other stuff crammed into the bed.)[IMG][/IMG]

[no1udknow]

was yours a swb or a lwb? ... oh nm I saw its a k5. As far as mounting and aligning your mounts, did you start at the front wheels and line up or the bed? I would assume the front since the front a-arms don't move? you can allways correct the rear axle a little. And, could I see some pics of your mounts. I am a pretty good welder and have build custom bikes, this is my first classic car mod. I just like to be prepared. I am taking measurements from the stock frame tomorrow.

[OrrieG]

Look at my build thread 59 frame and springs with 74 K10 axles and running gear. I run narrow tires to keep them under the fenders. My thought is keeping the original frame takes out the work of getting the front clip/cab/bed alignment right. Chevy GMC spring width was consistent from 55.5 into the 80's so its an easy swap. Only change I would make to mine is using a CPP style box in the stock location, wasn't available when I did mine.

[57taskforce]

Mine is a swb. I removed my stock cab mounts front the frame and modified them to work on the k5 frame. I'll take some pictures of my mounts this afternoon. I first set the cab on the frame with scrap 4x4 pieces of wood between the cab and frame. I got it all centered up and sitting about where I thought it needed to be. Then I set the core support on the frame and bolted the front fenders up as to gauge whether my cab needed to be moved forward or back. Remove the front sheet metal, move cab, and repeat until it was all lined up like I wanted it. Once the cab was where I wanted it I started fabbing the cab mounts. Once the cab was bolted down i made the core support mounts and bolted it down. For the bed I set it in place with no floor. I used rectangle tubing under the cross sills to raise the bed up a bit to match the body lines. That part will likely be different because of the differences in the k5
And pickup frames. My cab mounts will likely be taller than yours as well for the same reason. I'll get some pics for you in a bit.

[57taskforce]

Originally Posted by OrrieG

Look at my build thread 59 frame and springs with 74 K10 axles and running gear. I run narrow tires to keep them under the fenders. My thought is keeping the original frame takes out the work of getting the front clip/cab/bed alignment right. Chevy GMC spring width was consistent from 55.5 into the 80's so its an easy swap. Only change I would make to mine is using a CPP style box in the stock location, wasn't available when I did mine.

I would have done mine like yours but my frame was rotted out pretty bad from sitting in the weeds for years and years and years. There are definitely times when I wish I could have kept mine on the stock frame. It all worked out pretty good in the end tho.

[no1udknow]

Originally Posted by OrrieG

Look at my build thread 59 frame and springs with 74 K10 axles and running gear. I run narrow tires to keep them under the fenders. My thought is keeping the original frame takes out the work of getting the front clip/cab/bed alignment right. Chevy GMC spring width was consistent from 55.5 into the 80's so its an easy swap. Only change I would make to mine is using a CPP style box in the stock location, wasn't available when I did mine.

the stock frame is trashed, it was t boned in the rear. the 85 c10 I got only has 79k miles on it and was parked because it had issues passing smog. I'm doing the frame swap because in one fell swoop I will have disk brakes, ifs, power steering, and power brakes... for free!. The ifs kit alone is almost 3k if not more. I found a company that will make a set of custom a-arms that will both narrow the front track, and drop the ride a little for $900. so I will run skinny tires up front until I can afford to do the upgrade.

[_Ogre]

find another task force frame, you'll be miles ahead starting off

[57taskforce]

Here is said pics as you probably can tell from the pics I've got a body lift too. It wasn't necessary but I like big toys so overall I'm running 9ish inches of lift between the suspension and the body.
This is driver rear

This is the inner shot of the driver core support

This is the driver rear inner shot

[no1udknow]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

find another task force frame, you'll be miles ahead starting off

see... I get these comments and I feel like they are blind statements. Why do you think I'll be miles ahead, because I will have to replace the front suspension which requires fabrication, the motor mounts, the trans mounts, the trans cross member, the rear axle, the drive line, and I still wont have power steering and power brakes.... so please enlighten me. I specialize in doing the impossible and I'm not scared to swap the frame. I feel like if the old chassis was so great they would have used it a lot longer, but they didn't, they knew it was flawed. I had a 62 that was all original and I hated it because I wore out my elbows trying to park, and I was afraid to drive it when it rained because if I went through any kind of deep puddles, the damn thing wouldn't stop. Ogre, I'm not trying to be mean, but is your claim based on the fact that you simply like to keep it original? While I understand that mentality, that is not what I am looking for in my truck..... your truck does look beautiful btw :-)

[no1udknow]

57tf, those look pretty good, you just graphed the old mounts to some plate? what thickness 1/4"?

[57taskforce]

And some more
Driver side core support

Driver side inner shot of front cab mount

Driver side front mount


Another of driver side front mount

[57taskforce]

Now that I think about it I think the rear mounts may be from the blazer just raised to match the level of the fronts. The front mounts and core support mounts are from the task force frame. I fabbed all of these mounts up at the tail end of summer 06, so it's been a while. The mount bushings are all from the energy suspension k5 kit modified to work. The passenger side mounts are all more or less the same as the driver side. I don't regret doing my frame swap as it would be difficult for me to go the direction I wanted to go with the stock frame. I like original trucks and that's why I said sometimes I wish it was on the original frame, though it would've been difficult to do. I looked at my father in laws truck and the p/u frame doesn't kick up in the rear like the k5 does so it's likely and even easier swap than the k-5. If you want bed mount shots I'll post them but I don't think it's exactly what your gonna be up against.

[no1udknow]

Thanks for the pics, I greatly appreciate it. I think the bed will likely be the easiest part of the mouth fab as the one I have now has no wood and the wood rails are nearly gone also. The outer rails are in fantastic shape, as are the fenders, I can live with modifying the bed a little to sit right and even loose a little depth inside the box. Being as it is basically a big rectangle box it would be easy to just fab some new cross braces anywhere inside the bed.

[57taskforce]

Mine has a 1/8" diamond plate floor and custom cross sills made of 1/8 wall square tube then I used the said rectangle tube welded to the cross sills to get the right height. The bed is the easiest to mount you are correct their. For the wheel base adjustment you may have noticed I moved my step side fenders forward and made a filler panel front and rear to cover where the steps were. As for your question about plate, my mounts are all 1/4" and 5/16" plate I didn't want to play around with the safety of it all. They, as you probably noticed are bolted to the top and The sides of the frame, and are gusseted where possible.

[akdg87]

I used a 72 c10 frame; about a days worth of fabrication for new mounts for the cab and front clip, the bed just bolted right on. The 72 frame came with a small block, so the engine mounting was cake (I went LS), there's a plethora of parts for the 67-72 trucks and they are very reasonably priced. Also mine has the trailing arm rear suspension (lowering it is easier than ever, plus it has the 12 bolt from the factory). There's a few pics in my build of the frame.

[no1udknow]

Originally Posted by akdg87

I used a 72 c10 frame; about a days worth of fabrication for new mounts for the cab and front clip, the bed just bolted right on. The 72 frame came with a small block, so the engine mounting was cake (I went LS), there's a plethora of parts for the 67-72 trucks and they are very reasonably priced. Also mine has the trailing arm rear suspension (lowering it is easier than ever, plus it has the 12 bolt from the factory). There's a few pics in my build of the frame.

Yah, ak I had seen yours with a turbo, but its a 72 frame. Square bodies started in 73-87... different frame.

[akdg87]

Yeah I know; but same principal for the modding the 73-87 frames for a 55-59 truck. I've just never been a fan of the car front clip approach on these trucks. Next build will be porterbuilt for sure.

[_Ogre]

Originally Posted by no1udknow

see... I get these comments and I feel like they are blind statements. Why do you think I'll be miles ahead, because I will have to replace the front suspension which requires fabrication, the motor mounts, the trans mounts, the trans cross member, the rear axle, the drive line, and I still wont have power steering and power brakes.... so please enlighten me. I specialize in doing the impossible and I'm not scared to swap the frame. I feel like if the old chassis was so great they would have used it a lot longer, but they didn't, they knew it was flawed. I had a 62 that was all original and I hated it because I wore out my elbows trying to park, and I was afraid to drive it when it rained because if I went through any kind of deep puddles, the damn thing wouldn't stop. Ogre, I'm not trying to be mean, but is your claim based on the fact that you simply like to keep it original? While I understand that mentality, that is not what I am looking for in my truck..... your truck does look beautiful btw :-)

no blind statement, just years of experience in fabrication. have always owned tf trucks since 1972.
while there are some well executed frame swaps on this forum, no disparaging comments to anyone that has done a successful swap
but most frame swaps end up on ebay, craigslist or scrapped because of a lousy follow through or time and budget constraints

i have no doubt that if i put my head to it i could transplant a mack truck frame and running gear into truk
i would do it and post updates, but usually if someone has to ask he/she/it lacks the skill set to complete the project
nothing stock on truk: every piece has been modified including the stock frame

[no1udknow]

[QUOTE] but usually if someone has to ask he/she/it lacks the skill set to complete the project[/QUOTE

I get that. I'm not afraid whether or not I can do the project. I know one way or another I will get it done. I just wanted to see how others had done it and then pick the things I saw that I liked best to incorporate into my build. A little about me: I have been working on small block Chevy engines since I was about 12 (thanks to my dad for forcing me to help him... we had a 70 c10 from the time I was 2 till I was 25. After over a million miles and several engines it caught fire and burnt to the ground), I went to motorcycle mechanics institute in 2005. I worked as a technician on and off for about 5 years and started seeing lots of bike shops close up around town. Got into golf course equipment repair and started building custom bikes on the side including some full frame manufacturing and modification. I work on diesel tractors/mowers for a living and I am no stranger to fabrication. The reason I ask questions is that I'm anal and I want to do things right the first time so if I can learn from others mistakes or success, I would prefer to do so .

[no1udknow]

Originally Posted by akdg87

Yeah I know; but same principal for the modding the 73-87 frames for a 55-59 truck. I've just never been a fan of the car front clip approach on these trucks. Next build will be porterbuilt for sure.

by the way, I remember you were telling me your front tires were not clearing the fenders either, you might want to check out michigan metal works, I talked to the guy on the phone and he was super nice. He said they custom make a-arms to order and can narrow the track width by about 3-5 inches and lower the ride at the same time.

[no1udknow]

Originally Posted by 57taskforce

Here is said pics as you probably can tell from the pics I've got a body lift too. It wasn't necessary but I like big toys so overall I'm running 9ish inches of lift between the suspension and the body.

Would you say that if you didn't have the body lifted that it sat down on the frame pretty well? My truck will be 2wd and going after the rod/pro street look, I dont want it to look like I have a body lift.

[57taskforce]

Ya it can be done without much issue. I'd have to modify the bed a bit to clear the hump that the k5 frame has over the rear tires. The core support and cab would have no problem sitting on the bushings alone. I could even chop the mounts down some if I wanted to and the cab and core support would still be fine. With a pickup frame the bed will require even less modification to line up right with the cab.

[akdg87]

Originally Posted by no1udknow

by the way, I remember you were telling me your front tires were not clearing the fenders either, you might want to check out michigan metal works, I talked to the guy on the phone and he was super nice. He said they custom make a-arms to order and can narrow the track width by about 3-5 inches and lower the ride at the same time.

I actually swapped to a 245/35r20 front tire and now they will clear the lips of the fenders when the suspension compresses. Im not sure how the shorter a-arms woulds affect my rack and pinion setup, but i'm pretty happy with the stance it has now.

[marc55]

This is how I did mine. 78 chevy frame rear spring were moved 4" forward. I wanted my cab as close to the frame as possible. The rear of the cab was set on bushings right on the frame. I then leveled the cab and measured how much of a body lift I needed for the front of the cab. Used 1 1/4 square tube.
Then I mounted the fenders and measured again how much of a lift I needed for the core support. They came straight up off the frame. For the bed I channeled the bed rails over the frame. I am running 2 1/2 suspension lift with 35s. The front should come down about 2" when I put the engine in it.