New C10 stock engine build with a twist

[pohnjarker]

I picked up a '71 C10 last weekend, check it out if you havent seen it yet: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=640664

i have a lot of work to do but my main project is to pull the engine/tranny and rebuild it. i like that it looks old and beat up so it wont look like the frame offs i see all around this site, but it will run like a top so i'll be happy.

------------Here's the "oh geez, not another build thread" part------------

i want to build the stock motor, as long as its solid, into a 383 stroker street truck that will see the track occasionally. id like power up to 6500-7000rpm and i'll be running it on 93 octane. i'd like to add nitrous to it as well.

id like to keep the budget around 3k but that seems kind of low for a quality build so i'll say 5k to have some room.

i'll probably end up picking up a 700r4 tranny to add in the future if i dont find anything else. the current tranny has an issue when backing up, it'll just sit there in gear and very slowly slide into gear. if i rev it, it wont move but if i let it idle into gear, it'll eventually go.

any ideas would be cool and i'll answer any questions ya got. i want to do this build right the first time so the more help the better.

[pohnjarker]

Here are a few pictures of the engine.
i personally like the zip ties on the steering column...seems like that's going to need to rebuild it soon.

if you see anything you dont like or i need to fix or replace or throw away or whatever...let me know.

the air filter cover was screwed back on upside down so i turned it over and put it back. the radiator is leaking on the round piece that the hose connects to so i'll replace that. will a generic 3 core radiator be all i need, i dont see anything else...

the siren is....a siren. i had the key turned on and flipped a switch under the dash to see what it does and it turned the siren on.....i flipped it again and it turned back off. dont see the point of it so thats going to go.

[Captainfab]

To me your thread is a little confusing. The title says a 'stock engine build with a twist'. I thought that would mean a stock engine build with something like just a cam, or intake and carb. But then you are talking about building a 383 that is far from stock. Are you going to build this engine yourself, or have it built? Is there a reason you want to turn it 6500-7000?

[pohnjarker]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

To me your thread is a little confusing. The title says a 'stock engine build with a twist'. I thought that would mean a stock engine build with something like just a cam, or intake and carb. But then you are talking about building a 383 that is far from stock. Are you going to build this engine yourself, or have it built? Is there a reason you want to turn it 6500-7000?

by "stock engine build" i meant that i'm using the stock engine from the truck and building on that...as long as its not shot to hell.

im going to build the engine myself with the help of this forum, a book that i have, and and couple friends that like working on cars.

no real reason i want to turn to 6500-7000. my only experience is a muscle car that i wound out to 7200 so if thats not going to work with the truck, thats cool. i have no problem running it at a lower RPM.

i wouldnt mind starting with a cam, intake, carb to start with but im guessing i cant get now and then also use those on the 383 build. what if i just started with an intake/carb and move that to the 383 build.....i dont know. but im here to learn

[BR3W CITY]

Wait...I read all that and still don't see a twist....



where is my twist?

[pohnjarker]

the twist is im turning into the stock motor into a 383.
got any advice on any part of the motor build?

should i lower the rpm range to 5500-6000 max??
also, from what ive been reading, i should stay around 9.5 compression for NA but what if im going to add nitrous? keep the same compression and pull timing or change compression??

[Super73]

There are a lot of questions that come to mind.


Are you going to run a stock head, or are you going to go with an alum head?

How wild of a cam are you willing to go with? This could directly affect RPM range.

9.5 compression seems a bit low unless you were going to put a blower or turbo on it.

What gears do you plan on running?

Are you ok with a big loose stall converter? might be needed with a more wild cam.

[pohnjarker]

Originally Posted by Super73

There are a lot of questions that come to mind.


Are you going to run a stock head, or are you going to go with an alum head?

How wild of a cam are you willing to go with? This could directly affect RPM range.

9.5 compression seems a bit low unless you were going to put a blower or turbo on it.

What gears do you plan on running?

Are you ok with a big loose stall converter? might be needed with a more wild cam.

Good questions, i wish i knew more so i could answer them better but here goes.

i'll be going with a stock head, ive read the Vortec L31 cylinder head is pretty good for a stock head. other suggestions are always welcome.

not sure on how mild of a cam i'll run, mainly because i dont know what that exactly means. i was looking at this one which says 1800-5800 which im fine with. what do you think: http://www.jegs.com/i/Lunati/638/201...ductId=2867819

i thought the 9.5 compression needed to be low because i will be running 93 octane. if that's not the case, what would you recommend for a good compression ration to run 93?

id love to put a blower on it but that's not happening anytime soon, the most i'll do when its finished is put nitrous on it.

i'll be running the stock gears which i'll climb under the truck in a little bit and see if i can find it on the rear axle.

i'm also not sure about the loose converter question....i was thinking if i was going to be running 1800-5800 rpm then the converter should be around 2800 or so??


im getting ahead of myself but since i cant work on the truck while at work(computers) i search parts and read things.

here is a little parts list i threw together because it seemed to all match with what ive been reading. take a look and of course things change but i hope im at least on the right track.

Lifters - http://www.jegs.com/i/Lunati/638/723...ductId=2795011

Camshaft - http://www.jegs.com/i/Lunati/638/201...ductId=2867819

Rotating Assembly - http://www.jegs.com/i/Scat/942/1-903...ductId=2383974

[pohnjarker]

ok...climbed under the truck and could not find the stamp on the differential for the gears....i did find a nice leak coming out of the pumpkin though...lol

[softballnrd27]

The vortec heads are 64cc so that rotating assembly will put you at 11:1 which is on the border of pump gas and iron heads. It is doable but you will need to have your tune spot on(which is always best regardless) If you want to go the nitrous route I would highly reccomend doing forged pistons vs hypereutectic.
Stock gears, unless they are 3.73, are going to be pretty high(numerically lower) which will make it a dog down low, which is where you really want it. I did a 5.3 swap from a tired 305 and kept the stock gears (2.73) just so I could drive it and it sucks down low even with twice the power/tq. My suggestion is to build it from the bottom up. Start with rear-end, transmission and suspension. Once all that is done then build a motor with nitrous. I started mine that way but got orders to okinawa and wanted to get it running so i could drive it before I left for 3 years. Suspension is good, now I just need to get trans and rear-end sorted out when I get back.

[pohnjarker]

looking around online and reading, i think the gears are 3.08 but wont know for sure until i pull it and open it up but you're right, i will put some 3.73s in there when i do.

i'm not entirely set on any parts because of the budget and the million different combinations out there. but i do see what you mean about the CR with those heads. i'll keep looking around

i get what you mean about which way to start on a project. i've always started with the engine and then worked my way down but i do have other friends that like to do it your ways. to each their own though, nothing wrong with either way IMO, just preference.

enjoy Okinawa bud, my brother was there for a little while and liked it pretty well before he went to training on Mt. Fuji.

[Super73]

I am just curious, are you stuck on a gen 1 sbc? If well shopped, you could put a camed 6.0 ls motor in uour truck for that 5k mark. It will perform better than a 383 with vortek heads.

[pohnjarker]

Originally Posted by Super73

I am just curious, are you stuck on a gen 1 sbc? If well shopped, you could put a camed 6.0 ls motor in uour truck for that 5k mark. It will perform better than a 383 with vortek heads.

i'm not really stuck on it, i figured it would be cheaper to build on that since i already have it.

what are your thoughts on a 454 block, those are around $300 bare. im guessing all parts would be more expensive on that huh?

[Super73]

I can't really talk to the pig block stuff.

Keep in mind, a medium sized cam in a 6.0 LS will likely make 400+ rwhp with stock heads.

I am guessing you could find a complete 6.0 pull out including PCM, Harness and overdrive 4L80E for under $2,500 if you looked hard enough.

Heck, here is the higher compression version LS9 on E-bay for $1,800 but listed as needing a head gasket.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-CHEVROL...b57d5d&vxp=mtr

The 80E is tough as nails to boot.

[pohnjarker]

i think i'll go ahead and build the stock 350 now and move on to a 6.0 later on. this wont be my last build, im sure. the wiring of the newer stuff scares me the most out of all of this so i want to make this as easy as i can for myself and keep it "old school", the less wiring the better.

[GASoline71]

If you insist on using that block for a 383 build... my advice is to find a GOOD and REPUTABLE machinist. Lots of prep work on that block.

Or you could get a block from Summit Racing for around 600 bucks that is already set up to clear a 400 stroke crank and H beam rods. Has the stock roller cam set up, and has provisions for a mechanical fuel pump

Gary

[Super73]

It sounded like you were being budget minded. 2 builds cost 2x the cost

At any rate, the wiring on an LS is simple. I have a wiring schematic I could share. For first timers it takes roughly 3 hours removing all the un-needed wires from the harness. After that, wiring it in to your truck is literally 5 relays and a few other wires:
2 for PCM
1 for fuel pump
2 for electric fans
Brake switch for converter lock/unlock
Neutral safety switch

[softballnrd27]

I am with super73 on this. My LS swap is way under $5k and that includes all the suspension work I did. I bought a 5.3 for $400 tb to oil pan. 243 heads and a little cam and I am pretty sure I'm close to 325 to the wheels. I used the th350 that was already in the truck to save some $$ but wish I would have just went with the 4l80e. I built a 383 with a buddy of mine that he put in his nova and I think my truck ran just as good if not better than his. Very similar to what you are wanting to build. With better gears I'm sure the truck would be in the low 13s high 12s

[hotrod 80]

I vote LS also . I would not build the factory 60's motor . 2 piece rear seal , flat tappet cam , carb . As suggested at a minimum i would use later roller cam block . A complete 5.3 4L60E pull out would be my choice or the 6.0 as suggested .

[IIGW]

Originally Posted by pohnjarker

I 383 stroker street truck that will see the track occasionally. id like power up to 6500-7000rpm and i'll be running it on 93 octane. i'd like to add nitrous to it as well. .

sounds to me like you have an idea of what you want, but not sure how to get it.

6-7k means youll have alomst zero bottom end, and a big heavy truck needs bottom end to get moving.

93 octane really means nothing

nitrous is an easy power adder to add.

i guess my real question is, what are you planning to do wiht the truck? for the 5k budget you have, an 8psi turbo'd completely stock 4.8/5.3 will run circles around your old technology SBC...and get good mpgs, AC, powersteering, run in ice cold weather, reliable etc etc...

[pohnjarker]

Originally Posted by GASoline71

If you insist on using that block for a 383 build... my advice is to find a GOOD and REPUTABLE machinist. Lots of prep work on that block.

Or you could get a block from Summit Racing for around 600 bucks that is already set up to clear a 400 stroke crank and H beam rods. Has the stock roller cam set up, and has provisions for a mechanical fuel pump

Gary

i checked out the summit block and thats a good price since it includes machining. and its a newer 4 bolt block.

ive read to expect up to 1000 for the machine shop, not sure if that's accurate or not but if so, that's a good price for the machined block.

[pohnjarker]

Originally Posted by Super73

It sounded like you were being budget minded. 2 builds cost 2x the cost

At any rate, the wiring on an LS is simple. I have a wiring schematic I could share. For first timers it takes roughly 3 hours removing all the un-needed wires from the harness. After that, wiring it in to your truck is literally 5 relays and a few other wires:
2 for PCM
1 for fuel pump
2 for electric fans
Brake switch for converter lock/unlock
Neutral safety switch

the next build will be a long way off and that's if i dont completely hate doing it...lol. if it sucks then i'll just do a swap next time and be done with it.

but for my first time, i want to build something from the ground up.

[pohnjarker]

Originally Posted by softballnrd27

I am with super73 on this. My LS swap is way under $5k and that includes all the suspension work I did. I bought a 5.3 for $400 tb to oil pan. 243 heads and a little cam and I am pretty sure I'm close to 325 to the wheels. I used the th350 that was already in the truck to save some $$ but wish I would have just went with the 4l80e. I built a 383 with a buddy of mine that he put in his nova and I think my truck ran just as good if not better than his. Very similar to what you are wanting to build. With better gears I'm sure the truck would be in the low 13s high 12s

if the engine runs after rebuilding it, i'll be happy...lol.

it may cost more money to build a 383 than to grab a motor/tranny and do a swap but i'll have more personal satisfaction knowing i built it.

[pohnjarker]

Originally Posted by IIGW

sounds to me like you have an idea of what you want, but not sure how to get it.

6-7k means youll have alomst zero bottom end, and a big heavy truck needs bottom end to get moving.

93 octane really means nothing

nitrous is an easy power adder to add.

i guess my real question is, what are you planning to do wiht the truck? for the 5k budget you have, an 8psi turbo'd completely stock 4.8/5.3 will run circles around your old technology SBC...and get good mpgs, AC, powersteering, run in ice cold weather, reliable etc etc...

i get what you mean about the high RPMs. i had it on my last mustang but that was supercharged and much lighter so i get that i'll need way more low end torque for a truck build.

i mentioned 93octane because i'll be running pump gas so i dont need a build based on race fuel or anything like that.

i plan on using the truck as a cruise around town fun time, occasional track time.
i go to the track every other weekend or so and its nothing but muscle cars/trucks so i want a little bit of that with the truck. dont care about good mpg, ac, power steering or reliability, i have a new F150 for that. i just want an old farm truck with some performance.

[pohnjarker]

im probably making this build more complicated than it should be and i wouldnt doubt that no matter what route i go, it will cost much more than i plan on due to my lack of knowledge about this and trial and error...but i'm used to it so i guess it wouldnt be the end of the world, ya know.