Upgrading brakes on 1950 1 ton 3800.

[NeverDone50]

My brakes are the next job on my project list on my '50 3800 single wheel 1 ton. My idea is to change over the front to disc and keep the stock rear drums. I don't want to spend a fortune, but I do want to do it right. Do I buy the caliper bracket and piece the front brakes together from picknpull or do I buy a kit that has everything I need, including master cylinder and brake booster. What's everyone's thoughts on either those options or are there other options I'm missing. Or should I keep everything stock and just add a brake booster? I'm fairly new to a lot of this and I bought this truck as a novice mechanic- meaning I need to keep it somewhat simple.

[Hogger54]

You won't get discs on the front of a 1 ton, unless you put a 1/2 ton axle in it, which I'm not entirely sure will fit. Or put in a Camaro, Jaguar, Mustang front end on it. Which might not fit either.

There is a guy on here building a kit that might work, but from the work he's done on it, it looks a little pricey. If he even builds more than one.

[dwcsr]

We sell a 3600 and 3800 disc kit.
http://www.hollisterroad.com/proddet...keconversion38

install documentation

http://www.thehollisterroadcompany.c...converion.html

We provide the brackets, machined wheel spacers to fit the rotors, and the new mounting hardware and stud spacers, install instructions and a complete list of brake parts you need. You can source new or used Chevy 2500HD brakes and parts. It retains the stock GM axle and hub. You need to replace the stock wheel studs and shorten them a 1/4", that's all the machining you do. You do need a dial indicator to check the run-out of the disc and hub package so you don't get a vibration.

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by NeverDone50

My brakes are the next job on my project list on my '50 3800 single wheel 1 ton. My idea is to change over the front to disc and keep the stock rear drums. I don't want to spend a fortune, but I do want to do it right. Do I buy the caliper bracket and piece the front brakes together from picknpull or do I buy a kit that has everything I need, including master cylinder and brake booster. What's everyone's thoughts on either those options or are there other options I'm missing. Or should I keep everything stock and just add a brake booster? I'm fairly new to a lot of this and I bought this truck as a novice mechanic- meaning I need to keep it somewhat simple.

To answer your technical questions,
I'd be a bit leery of using a booster on stock wheel cylinders. You are increasing the line pressure by 100% by adding a booster. You would have to replace every line and hose and cylinder to be safe and then you over the cost of a disc swap

By adding disc brakes you need approximately 1200 psi line pressure to stop a 1 ton loaded. The stock drum master system would put out about 600 psi. To get proper line pressures you need a 1.125" to 1.47" (37mm) diameter master and a dual 8" booster. So its a leave it stock or go all in kind of deal. You can get after market disc kits for the HO 72 rear end or do a 14 bolt swap.

Disc on a 1 ton is not a cheap deal to do because the parts are costly even rebuilt.

[Hogger54]

Oh wow. My bad. I didn't think you had worked all the bugs out yet.
The kit looks good.

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by Hogger54

Oh wow. My bad. I didn't think you had worked all the bugs out yet.
The kit looks good.

The bracket was the tough part getting it to be a bolt on deal with stock GM parts rather than a axle from this and a spindle from that and close to correct bearing swap.

We don't swap the bearings in this conversion because there are no direct swap bearings available and some have reported failures with the close to fitting bearings. Couple that with ball bearings are still a good bearing for these trucks so I saw no reason to change the.

[_Ogre]

that looks like a good kit you put together dwcsr.

Originally Posted by dwcsr

You would have to replace every line and hose and cylinder to be safe and then you over the cost of a disc swap

i'd recommend this even if you were staying totally stock.
60 some year old brakes should be totally replaced

i do question the use of the aluminum spacer pressed into the cast disc
i don't see that coming out of the disc in a couple years without cutting the disc
though i don't see a way around it either unless you used the 1/2 ton axle

[NeverDone50]

All the wheel cylinders have been replaced by the previous owner, but they didn't run new brake lines. The old lines are trash anyway so they will be replaced. It still be ill advised to put a booster on my stock drums?

[NeverDone50]

Originally Posted by dwcsr

We sell a 3600 and 3800 disc kit.
http://www.hollisterroad.com/proddet...keconversion38

install documentation

http://www.thehollisterroadcompany.c...converion.html

We provide the brackets, machined wheel spacers to fit the rotors, and the new mounting hardware and stud spacers, install instructions and a complete list of brake parts you need. You can source new or used Chevy 2500HD brakes and parts. It retains the stock GM axle and hub. You need to replace the stock wheel studs and shorten them a 1/4", that's all the machining you do. You do need a dial indicator to check the run-out of the disc and hub package so you don't get a vibration.

No offense, but $450 seems pretty pricey for wheel spacers and a bracket. Wheel spacer go for about $100, so the bracket is $$350 on its own? The bracket for the 1/2 ton is only $130 from LMC.

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

that looks like a good kit you put together dwcsr.



i'd recommend this even if you were staying totally stock.
60 some year old brakes should be totally replaced

i do question the use of the aluminum spacer pressed into the cast disc
i don't see that coming out of the disc in a couple years without cutting the disc
though i don't see a way around it either unless you used the 1/2 ton axle

Its not a press fit its more of a slight interference fit. It has 8 spacers, one that screws on to each stud that just center the stud in the rotor stud hole and are made of 304 stainless so not issue with the aluminum or cast steel. The stud spacer doesn't contact the aluminum, only the stud and rotor. The rotor will sit flat to the aluminum wheel spacer. The stock rotor has two screw holes in it to push it off if it doesn't come off by had.

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by NeverDone50

No offense, but $450 seems pretty pricey for wheel spacers and a bracket. Wheel spacer go for about $100, so the bracket is $$350 on its own? The bracket for the 1/2 ton is only $130 from LMC.

You can't compare it to a half ton brackets its a much larger bracket than a half ton. It used Dual piston calipers and is rated at 8600 lbs. All the parts are American made by me or a US vendor. You can't buy an American made wheel spacer for under $145 a set. You can by $90 china spacer that bust up after a year. The grade 8 hardware, isn't cheap. We make the spacers here and my time is worth something. We re-machine the aluminum spacers so they fit the rotor properly. The parts run its very limited not a whole lot of 3/4 and one tons are converted. Half ton are converted by the thousands, all that factors into it as well.

I find it amusing that all the whining I hear about no one makes anything in the US anymore and when they invest time and money to make a parts here everyone wants that cheap China price.

I don't ever want to be faced with someone who purchased my parts and loaded up their kids and 4 wheeler and crashed because it wouldn't stop all because I cheaped it out and used half ton China joe parts and sold it as 1 ton brake upgrade. We don't ever do cheap, its done to the best of our ability or we don't sell it.

[mr48chev]

That's a great looking setup Dave.

Neverdone50 you would have to take into consideration that this is very close to a one off setup and Dave isn't getting some big price break on machine work by having them knock out a thousand or ten thousand at a time. I'd hate to think what it would cost locally to have a pair of those spacers made in a job shop machine shop at shop prices here if you walked in the door with only a set of detailed drawings.
One thing I really like is that they sell you the pieces you would need to have made to do the conversion and you buy the rest of it locally and for some of us that may work into a nice break on the prices of the parts if we can get a deal or if we can get a deal on some of the pieces used. A guy might even get the rear axle out of the donor rig he got the front brake pieces from and end up with a matching brake system front and back and much newer rear end in the process.

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

That's a great looking setup Dave.

Neverdone50 you would have to take into consideration that this is very close to a one off setup and Dave isn't getting some big price break on machine work by having them knock out a thousand or ten thousand at a time. I'd hate to think what it would cost locally to have a pair of those spacers made in a job shop machine shop at shop prices here if you walked in the door with only a set of detailed drawings.
One thing I really like is that they sell you the pieces you would need to have made to do the conversion and you buy the rest of it locally and for some of us that may work into a nice break on the prices of the parts if we can get a deal or if we can get a deal on some of the pieces used. A guy might even get the rear axle out of the donor rig he got the front brake pieces from and end up with a matching brake system front and back and much newer rear end in the process.

Thanks we aimed at making it a bolt on and do the hard work for you and you use what you can source for bolt on parts. We just finished a swap that used our front brakes and a 14 bolt with discs.


Your right about job shops. The first set of brackets cost me $180 for two brackets made here on a short run. The stud spacers I make on a lathe from 304 bar stock. The inside is threaded to 14mm x1.5 and the outside is turned so its just fits the rotor. These alone if made at a job shop would be $4 each x 16 = $64. The aluminum spacers i buy at just about retail because again its by the pair or 2- 3 sets at a time then we then re machine them. In the end you have 13" disc brakes with dual piston calipers. Half tons are 11 - 11.5 singles.

[NeverDone50]

Originally Posted by dwcsr

You can't compare it to a half ton brackets its a much larger bracket than a half ton. It used Dual piston calipers and is rated at 8600 lbs. All the parts are American made by me or a US vendor. You can't buy an American made wheel spacer for under $145 a set. You can by $90 china spacer that bust up after a year. The grade 8 hardware, isn't cheap. We make the spacers here and my time is worth something. We re-machine the aluminum spacers so they fit the rotor properly. The parts run its very limited not a whole lot of 3/4 and one tons are converted. Half ton are converted by the thousands, all that factors into it as well.

I find it amusing that all the whining I hear about no one makes anything in the US anymore and when they invest time and money to make a parts here everyone wants that cheap China price.

I don't ever want to be faced with someone who purchased my parts and loaded up their kids and 4 wheeler and crashed because it wouldn't stop all because I cheaped it out and used half ton China joe parts and sold it as 1 ton brake upgrade. We don't ever do cheap, its done to the best of our ability or we don't sell it.

Obviously what I said came off wrong. I didn't mean to offend and I'm not doubting your quality. I said from my original post that I'm new to this and a novice mechanic at best. So I apologize that i don't know the difference from your parts to, what I believe to be, similar parts. How much do you estimate the rest of the parts to complete the conversion?

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by NeverDone50

Obviously what I said came off wrong. I didn't mean to offend and I'm not doubting your quality. I said from my original post that I'm new to this and a novice mechanic at best. So I apologize that i don't know the difference from your parts to, what I believe to be, similar parts. How much do you estimate the rest of the parts to complete the conversion?

New parts could go for approximately $375 - $400, Used calipers ,discs, hoses, miscellaneous items on the parts list I have seen go for as little as $100. So figure used $200

[mr48chev]

I've been a round or two at having parts machined in a one off basis when I worked in a large food processing plant in the late 90's and we had several machines that had come from Germany that were very low production machines as to how many were made and sold world wide. That was before it was at all common to send an Email to inquire about parts or service and the company we got the machines from had no one in house that spoke English.

[playinsafe44]

This is great that a disc brake kit is finally available for the 3/4 ton and larger trucks. I wish I would have waited longer to buy the '53 axle with more modern brakes... But I guess that's how these things go. I'm very interested in this kit. Especially since it's made in USA!!! What wheels can you use with the disc brakes kit? Will the stock wheels fit? I'd like to use wheels that are stock, or stock looking and want to run the 3/4 ton hubcaps. Do the wheels stick out more?

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by playinsafe44

This is great that a disc brake kit is finally available for the 3/4 ton and larger trucks. I wish I would have waited longer to buy the '53 axle with more modern brakes... But I guess that's how these things go. I'm very interested in this kit. Especially since it's made in USA!!! What wheels can you use with the disc brakes kit? Will the stock wheels fit? I'd like to use wheels that are stock, or stock looking and want to run the 3/4 ton hubcaps. Do the wheels stick out more?

Stock 17" wheels do fit. We did have a 16" ford wheel on it and it fits as well
They actually look better out an inch. The stock width has the wheels tucked in a bit. This brings them closer to the fender but still inside of it

We tried very had to make this kit appear to be an option you could have gotten or at minimum look unassuming. You can also with a little modification use the original backing plates as a dust shield. With the stock 17" wheels and the backing plate you don't really see the disc at first and you can't see it through the wheel

We had Stockton Wheel make some wheels that use the stock 17' centers and tubeless ousters on an 17 x 8" wide rims and it hides everything. If I had to do it again I'd go with 6 or 7" wide. We wanted to be able to use the clip on hub cap for that era that's the reason for the wheel conversion.

[b.sharp]

I would really like to see a picture of the truck done. I have bought all my bolt on parts and will get my kit from you in the future, hopefully by years end. So, next run you make please hold one for me. I have no plans of changing from the 1 ton maybe a single wheel 1 ton instead of a dually. Depends if I can source a good bed.
Thanks for all the hard work Dave and I am glad all parts are made in the USA.

[dwcsr]

Here are some of the truck they are on now.

[dwcsr]

We have this driving now. It stops with about 4-1/2" of pedal left. We tried to lock them up but couldn't. 2500 HD 13" brakes up front and 14 bolt axle w/disc on the rear. 1-1/8" master, dual 7"booster but you should use a 8" dual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF2R...ature=youtu.be