Whats Wrong My Heirloom 1970 C2500

[BabeintheHoods]

After my dad died about ten years ago, I got the family truck. This truck used to haul! It was legendary among my dad's workers, he just didn't know that. 1970 GMC C2500 (Pseudo) Longhorn.
CE234 1Z 63191 model CE26034.



http://67-72chevytrucks.com/gallery/...1_Door_Jam.jpg

Yes I spilled oil on the exhaust manifold!

But, a few years before he died, he took it to get rebuilt for a bargain, and got what he paid for. The block is not the 350 he went in with. Since then, it has laboured going up grades, even mellow ones. When you tromp the gas, no real reaction, or as my friends say, "No Jam".





First, I know fricking nothing about engines, or trucks, so use small words. What is the culprit? Is it the popcorn popper on the top (the oil bath filter)? What tests should I do to eliminate that as an issue? I assume this is the original air filter, but maybe it is wrong for the block? What should I be replacing it with?

Second, where did the block come from and what is it? Any pictures of what it should look like. Is this my cause? Looking behind the fan belts on the block is T 407 TZM, that's all I can see, I think that's the VIN.



I think this is the casting number? 346250 GM K3



Third, the snorkel on the oil bath looks like a hose should be coming into it from the bottom? Laugh at me and explain.

[mechanicalman]

That's the casting number of the intake manifold, it's a 305-era intake that was also found on the 350's of the same era, not original to the truck nor are the valve covers.

That air cleaner does not look stock, but must be for a truck as tall as it is.

The accessory bracket set-up is for a later model, alternator is supposed to be on the driver's side.

The casting number of the block is on the driver's side of the upper bell housing flange behind the driver's side head, and that will tell us pretty much for sure what it is, then look it up on this site.

http://webpages.charter.net/darrell1...g_numbers.html

Exhaust manifolds look original (good), and the brackets will do despite not being original, however, I'm concerned how deep the fan blade is sunken into the shroud and if the blade is the right size. You want the blade to be about halfway in and out of the edge of the shroud for maximum airflow.

I read that engine code as "CZM" not "TZM". ?

Gulp....I hate to even think this is correct, but I think that's a 1975 262 CI, 110HP out of a Nova. That would explain why it has "no jam".

http://www.73-87.com/chevy_ids/scode4.htm

Jeg's has a heckuva deal on crate 350s
This one comes with new HEI, balancer, and intake.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Perf...oductId=752506

This one is just the long block, I would recommend a new balancer, not that one you have on that engine.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Perf...oductId=752506

[BabeintheHoods]

Thanks for the bad news, but would not say that I am shocked.

I shall look again in the morning, with some daylight, provide some answers to your questions. (I think the engine code "T" vs "C" is the result of me reading it to my daughter... to be confirmed).

[Steve Hafner]

. . . .

ALSO, when you have some daylight, take some pictures of the truck for us too.

Interesting SPID too . . there's that MANDatory, CANadian, base equip again !!!

Here's a picture of a 69 350 that was said to have 12,000 original miles, with an oil bath air cleaner . . .
. . . It looks pretty close to what you have. ( there IS a hose in the back of it, down to the valve cover )

. . . .

[burb71]

Ive never seen a SPID label with a date on it, thats cool ( FEB 06 70 )

[In The Ten Ring]

Sorry about your dad getting (badly) ripped off. My dad paid for a lame bondo job on what is now my truck but I guess they didn't want his engine.

I'd support a engine swap also. You might want to check the tranny too to see what they did to that.

[Bigdav160]

Keep the oil bath too. It's superior to a paper filter.

[michael bustamante]

Have you been able to get the block # yet from the back of the engine?
Driver side right up against the firewall where engine bolts up to tranny

[BabeintheHoods]

Just got home from work, not playin hard to get. Heading out with the camera and a beer.

Thinking of taking the "Nova" out for a spin, [Never knew how lucky I was to be driving two classics for the price of one].

[BabeintheHoods]

Uploading photos to this site was quite a task today.

I'm thinking this is the number on the block we were looking for, I could only see it by blinding sticking my camera where I thought it was, kind of hard to read, easier if you make it smaller.


866909?
855909??



And the truck:

[BabeintheHoods]

I couldn't find that number on this page:

http://webpages.charter.net/darrell1...g_numbers.html

" Small Block Chevy Block casting numbers

CASTING#.....SIZE...YEAR...MAIN CAP BOLTS....NOTES

140029.....350...80-84...2
330817.....400...72-80...2
355909.....262.....75....2" which matches the Nova info
355909.....305...76-79...2

[DreamRyder1963]

Thats a pretty good looking truck. I agree that a crate motor 350 is your best bet if its in the cards for you.

[mechanicalman]

It appears this is a 262 CI.

[BabeintheHoods]

1) Well, what the chance the transmission fits the crate engine?

2) What kind of work / hours would be standard for dropping this in
$1500 is not a concern, its the $$ to put it in that concerns me.

3) If I am all in, what kind of fun could I have in size?

I know a few good shops in town that I would trust the work.

4) Is the 260 worth anything?

[mechanicalman]

QUOTE=BabeintheHoods;6835728]1) Well, what the chance the transmission fits the crate engine?

2) What kind of work / hours would be standard for dropping this in
$1500 is not a concern, its the $$ to put it in that concerns me.

3) If I am all in, what kind of fun could I have in size?

I know a few good shops in town that I would trust the work.

4) Is the 260 worth anything?[/QUOTE]

1) The transmission will fit the crate engine, absolutely 100%.

2) Labor to install a new long-block engine in that truck, no a/c, 12-15 hours in my part of the country, and labor rates are very high nowadays.

3) Not sure what you mean "what kind of fun could I have in size"? You would have a longhorn truck with about 260 horsepower. That 262 is rated at 110 horsepower, so you double that and add 40 more. AND, maybe the 262 was a little tired, maybe not.

4) The 262 is not worth much. It has an oddball 3.1" stroke crankshaft.

You can use everything off the 262 but you don't know if the distributor is working properly, nor the carburetor. I wouldn't use the balancer from the 262 because it's likely too light, and worn hubs leak oil. It would be best to use the deluxe crate engine with intake, balancer, and distributor. You are going to need some misc. parts like maybe a carburetor, water pump, hoses, thermostat/housing, fuel pump, maybe a radiator, and all that stuff adds up in a hurry you could end up spending 3-3.5K on this engine job easy.

Really hard to say what you should spend on it not knowing the direction you want to go, how many miles you want to put on it, or what you want to do. If you want to drive it a lot and maybe some light restoration (brakes) maybe a camper, daily driver, then get the new engine.

If you want a pickup just for when you need one to haul something or make a trip to the dump, you might have that shop you trust to look it over maybe the old 262 will get that done. Maybe they will have a cheaper alternative if they have a rebuilder they trust to get a rebuilt engine, or maybe a good used 350.

Many of us on this forum do our own work and things come a little easier for us.

BTW, did not notice the oilbath air cleaner on the spid, that's a cool option I was not aware of.

[dan42]

Just get a 'turnkey' motor - a little more expensive, but all the decisions on the parts are made for you. They pop in fairly quickly and easily by a good mechanic.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by BabeintheHoods

Just got home from work, not playin hard to get. Heading out with the camera and a beer.

Thinking of taking the "Nova" out for a spin, [Never knew how lucky I was to be driving two classics for the price of one].

Kinda sad but love your sense of humor. Any chance you still have the receipts from the engine job? Might have a case for fraud; imagine getting the original engine back from those creeps. Yeah, I'm a dreamer.

[BabeintheHoods]

Re: the oil bath filter on the SPID. This truck was raised in the dusty areas of the Canadian Prairies. Lots of dirt and gravel road driving. So, probably the oil bath was a smart choice, and a known commodity in tractor-land.

Would love to do this kind of work myself. Furthest I ever got was taking apart small engines and losing pieces. Need to invest several hundred hours helping out friends before trying this kind of thing, and getting them to help.

Its worth it to pay people for what they know how to do well.

[BabeintheHoods]

Wish my dad would have realized that.

[BabeintheHoods]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Kinda sad but love your sense of humor. Any chance you still have the receipts from the engine job? Might have a case for fraud; imagine getting the original engine back from those creeps. Yeah, I'm a dreamer.

I have the receipt, but it was many years ago. My dad would have made a poor witness back then, and of course not now.

The situation is not without a life lesson. Go to people with a good reputation, not just because they are good, but because they do not want to lose that reputation.

[68C15]

and you don't know what transpired between your dad and the engine shop. The original could have been toast and the guy offered this as a budget friendly option while making dad know what it was.

All you can do now is move forward. Do a motor swap if you want power or leave it alone if you want money. There's not much gray area between the two

[geezer#99]

You know there's an 'old phart' just a ferry ride away if you need help to swap in a new mill.
But I wouldn't swap out your little 262 just yet.
Check it's condition, do a sharp tune on it and run it till it dies.
You got nowhere far to go except maybe Ladner for a 'Timmy's' run. LOL!!

[BabeintheHoods]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

You know there's an 'old phart' just a ferry ride away if you need help to swap in a new mill.
But I wouldn't swap out your little 262 just yet.
Check it's condition, do a sharp tune on it and run it till it dies.
You got nowhere far to go except maybe Ladner for a 'Timmy's' run. LOL!!

Its actually parked in Penticton, getting it to Tsawwassen is the issue, I don't trust it, will have to tow it. "Run it till it dies" could happen on the Hope-Princeton. I'm going to get a bit of tuning done, then maybe consider the drive with someone behind in a second vehicle.

I like the new crate engine idea, but would have to do that once I get it down here. I figure I can avoid shipping, get it delivered to Point Roberts.