Looking for planning help for polebarn style workshop to be built in the spring

[DeadheadNM]

Hello:

Starting to plan for a workshop to be built on my property come spring. I've never had a building built so appreciate any advice that might help me get a good result. I'm anticipating a concrete floor polebarn style building large enough to easily accommodate a 2x2 arrangement of four longbed pickups (two front to back).

The location on my property (pics below) seems best suited to something deeper than wide. The site (and whole property) are on a gentle sloping hill so the site will need some excavation and I assume retaining walls.

Any advice from contractor selection, materials, door types, etc.? Would a 30x40x12 building be large enough to have four trucks with room for working and storage?

Thanks, Pete

[slowcpe]

I have almost exactly what you are planning on building. Mine is 32x40x11.5 and I love it. However, and this may because its our main garage, but its a little small with 3 vehicles and a 21' boat. I've got room to work but find myself pulling both our cars out to work on things.

You will be able to park (4) longbeds in there pretty easy, but if you decide to start tearing one apart you may find it a bit cramped. I waited too long but tried to find a place to store the boat this winter so I could have more room on the tear down of my truck.

We've talked if we ever move/build we need an attached with atleast a 32x40 but preferably a 60x40.

Congrats btw. Once you get it built you will never know how you survived without one.

Here's a couple of old pics to give you an idea of space and layout.

[DeadheadNM]

Jealous Ryan! Thanks for the reply. Was that a design a builder/contractor had or one you did yourself?

I'm wondering if better to hire a general contractor who can oversee the whole project or have design plans in hand and sub out the excavation, concrete work, and building separately.

[slowcpe]

Thanks. It was here when we bought the house. I tell everybody that she bought a house and I bought a garage.

I'm not sure in your area requires a GC but it would easily be something you could contract out. However you might not get the best deal from the subs as would a GC. Me, personally, would sub what I couldn't do out but I'm in the construction industry and know most of the subs well.

[_Ogre]

i am not a fan of pole barn shops, pole barn with dirt floors and no insulation, yes.
but imo, they cost more to build in cold weather country
the roof goes up quick, but by the time your pour the slab, infill framing and insulate the walls the cost gets out of control

stick built on a slab will get you a better building and economical to wire, insulate and finish the walls
i lived in kalispell in 1978 it gets a little chilly there, i think insulating a shop is in your future

with that sloped property, you'll be surprised at how far into the hill you need to go
maybe a better plan would be to block or poured walls in the hill with a stick framed structure
and if your healthy and able to do the work i would build everything yourself to keep cost down
half the cost of building is labor, you can cut the cost of your building in half by diy

first thing i ever built was my home in the mountains of north carolina
the second thing i ever built was my shop on the same property



around back

[DeadheadNM]

Ogre thanks - that's a big help. Really nice place you built there - blends in well with the land. Yep, it still gets chilly here! I've attached a pic of my K20 out in the snow last winter.

Given the site work that will need to be done I was wondering if I might as well make use of the retaining walls as structure walls from which to frame from. I would prefer slab/framed building depending on cost. I can definitely work on the project myself - my limiting factor is time in that regard.

Would a good next step be to speak with a local architect/engineer office about site selection and drafting excavation/building plans? I'm thinking even if I did a pole barn the site would have to be prepped anyway.

Also, I'll to map out the location of the electrical, water, natural gas, and cable lines (my final pic shows cable/electrical boxes relative to the driveway I want to tie the shop in with. Can i contact each company and have them stake out their respective lines/cable?

[Tropical Snowstorm]

The only advice I can give is to build bigger than you think you could ever use. My dad and I built 24x36 thinking we would never fill it up... we did within a year.

Also, if you tow much and want a boat/atv trailer indoors, have door on both ends. I can pull the boat right in, unhitch, and never mess with backing into the garage with the trailer.

I went with a metal building and had their recommended contractor do the install, it went up in two days (supposed to be one) and haven't had a single issue since 2010. Only regrets are gravel floors (doesn't prevent ground moisture intrusion- you have slab listed already though.) and the size. Going up in size would have added almost 40% to the building because of adding another roof span at over 36 feet.

We have two doors on the "front" side and one for a pull through on the back side, here's a crappy pic to give you an idea...


As for the having a single contractor, he's going to sub it out and mark it up. If you have the patience and a decent amount of knowledge I would do them all separate and direct. I had the ground work (leveling and gravel) done by a local guy before the metal building crew showed up.

[DeadheadNM]

The rear garage door is a great idea. If I could swing it I will. In order to remove as few trees as possible I had in mind to tuck the back end of the shop into the hill so no room for a rear door. I could remove a few more trees then have the shop aligned along the driveway below, which would allow me to drive through and potentially out into the pasture.

[bowtieguy79]

Just last summer I put up the same building you are talking about doing. 30x40x12.5 ceiling. I used Cleary Building company. They are nation wide and was a one stop shop.

I chose to only have the shed put up, outside finished, with concrete floors. I will run my own electricity at some point, but I did have doors with openers installed. ( so far 125ft drop cord works )

This is the best pic I have at the moment...

Currently I just use it as overflow, park the toys in it. C10,SUB, Blazer, 94 Silverado, antique one wheel camper, 317 deere mower, 3 honda quads....etc etc...
House garage is 28 deep and 36 wide and I still work on things in the attached house garage.

[DeadheadNM]

bowtieguy - Is the size roomy enough to have vehicles and get some work done? How long did it take Cleary to prep the site and erect the building? I assume Cleary arranged for a local sub to do the ground prep prior to building?

[bowtieguy79]

I ordered my shed in March and they tossed me the keys July 4th weekend. I don't think the first hole was dug until June 1st though. They set up a local excavating business to level it, and also had another company do the concrete. It was a pretty smooth process. They even worked with my bank for payment as we did a construction/improvement refinance on the house.

[DeadheadNM]

That's helpful, thanks. Sounds like I need someone locally to eyeball the site I have in mind to confirm is feasible.

[bowtieguy79]

I also did a back door. Highly suggested!

[_Ogre]

Originally Posted by DeadheadNM

Would a good next step be to speak with a local architect/engineer office about site selection and drafting excavation/building plans? I'm thinking even if I did a pole barn the site would have to be prepped anyway.

do you need to pull a permit? most rural areas the permit process is minimal if any
myself... i'd hand draw a rough building sketch, dig a hole and start building
the more people you get involved the more money you'll spend
building a basic rectangle with a trussed roof isn't exactly brain surgery

it never hurts to call to locate your utilities http://www.montana811.org/
it's free, from their site:
''To request a locate of underground facilities in your excavation (dig) area simply dial 811 or if you are calling from outside of Montana or having difficulties using 811 dial 800-424-5555. ''

[BlueBullet]

Pete
I just built a 36'W x 40'L pole frame shop. I was thinking 30'x40' but my contractor made a good point. You lose close to 2' wall and sheeting so we went with 36'. Wish I would of went 50'L but I wanted to stick to my budget. Also in the future if I wanted I can always add on. Hope that helps.
Nathan

[DeadheadNM]

Thanks a lot guys - excellent points. I would like to have room enough to open both doors on the trucks/blazer. The site I hope to use will need to be excavated into the hill with a retaining wall, which is sorta the rub. If only I had a nice level spot. I got a quote today - seems pricey even before the concrete.

[_Ogre]

lets do some quick math, using menards pricing...

25 30ft trusses $3125
156 2x6x12 studs $1248
3 layers 2x6 top plate $312
120 sheets 1/2'' osb $1080
18 squares shingles $1800
total to rough in 30x48 shop $7565

granted i have not included: fasteners, doors, windows, siding, tar paper, soffit/fascia and lots of miscellaneous stuff
but it won't come close to the $13,835 difference in price from a steel building

8' o/c columns means you'll have 4 columns down the center of your shop
all their doors are non insulated

they have an addition cast of $1152 to add bubble wrap to your shop roof (roof only)
steel buildings are not easy to insulate without studding up interior walls

and you still need to supply a level building site, concrete slab, all utilities, electrical, heat, plumbing, etc...

AND unless you live in a double wide you'll have a steel building next to you for ever

[72 5500]

Check out Hansen pole buildings website. You can build your building on line and get a rough idea on the cost.

[DeadheadNM]

I've scheduled the utility line check (thanks _Ogre) . A local builders supply I'm told also provides pole barn style buildings in a kit format so will look into this and I'll check Hansen. I called a local excavator but apparently all their trucks are in North Dakota - they aren't looking for any local work.

I spoke with the original builder of my home. After I get the utilities mapped out I'll have him over to discuss what he might be able to provide in terms of slab/frame structure. He offered a rough estimate of $35-50/sq ft for an unfinished garage, which is ~$50k on the low end.

[_Ogre]

most of the cost anymore is labor
do you want it now or do you want to build it yourself?

to build or not to build, that is the question... bastardized shakespear

[Cash3481]

Pete,
Here is the quote I received when we were building our house in 2012. Its unaltered (except personal info)but copied from excel so it may look a little funny. I can email the actual one if your interested. There was 3-10'X10 door openings.
There was a few options additionally, they are in the email quote. Hope this helps!
For what its worth, I'm building my own with some friends sweat equity.LOL
Mike

3201 W. Hancock
Muskogee, OK 74401

TOLL FREE: 1-877-USA-BARN
(877-872-2276)
Local: 918-686-5558
Fax: 918-686-5512
PROPOSAL www.usa-barn.com

Bid Date: 8/1/2012 Phones
Name: Mike Castillo #1: 316-???-????
Address: ????????????? #2:
City, State, Zip: Mulvane, KS 67110 #3:
Building location: Mulvane, KS 67110 Fax: ????????.net
County / Parish: Sumner E mail: ???????????????@us.af.mil



BUILDING SPECIFICATIONS

BUILDING SIZE: 36 x 40 Enclosed OUTSIDE EAVE WALL HEIGHT: 12
SHEDS: ROOF PITCH: 4/12
SLIDING DOORS: SOFFIT & FASCIA:
FRAME OUTS: (3) - 10 x 10 WINDOWS:
WALK DOORS: (1) CUPOLA:
WAINSCOT: EAVE TRIM: SKY LTS:
ROOF INSULATION: see below RIDGE VENTS: POST PROTECTORS:
WALL INSULATION: see below RAT GUARD:
METAL GAUGE: 29 Painted COLORS: ROOF: WALLS:
FASTENERS: screws SLIDING DOOR: TRIM:
BUILT ON CUSTOMER SUPPLIED SLAB: YES WAINSCOT:

STALLS & STALL OPTIONS
STALL SIZE: QUANTITY: COLOR:
STALL SIZE: QUANTITY: COLOR:
OPTIONS
DROP PNL IN DOOR: SWING FEEDER: YOKE IN DOOR:
FEED DOOR: 4' GRILL DIVIDER: YOKE DROP IN DOOR:
OTHER:
ADDITIONAL OPTIONS / COMMENTS
Construction can begin in approximately 2 - 4 weeks from receipt of signed contract based on current back log.

ADD: $1680.00 for roof & wall insulation


SIGNATURES OF ACCEPTANCE
Please see reverse for terms and conditions. By signing below customer agrees with terms and conditions on reverse.
Please note: All payments are via cashiers check, money order, or Visa/Mastercard.
Prices quoted are good for 15 days from date of proposal.
TOTAL PRICE: $ 9,460.00 Delivered and built.

DATE OF ACCEPTANCE:
Paul Rush
CUSTOMER SIGNATURE USA BARN REPRESENTATIVE

[Jim53066]

Pete,
Here is a great site for getting idea's and questions answered about garages. You will spend hours (weeks) reading through it.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/index.php
Jim

[_Ogre]

(weeks)

you have been warned

[DeadheadNM]

It's a blow to my ego but I'm pretty well stuck having to hire to have at least the big stuff completed but can certainly do some of the finish work. I appreciate the comparison quote Mike. That site linked above is a bad influence!!! It's probably going to up the cost another $5-10k now 12' ceilings should allow for a lift I believe...

A local retired couple I know have given me the contact info for the excavator they used for their home construction. I'll contact him after the utility lines are mapped out. I want to confirm the site I have in mind is going to work without having to uproot too many Ponderosa pines. It's possible I can go so far as to have the site leveled before the first of the year.

Keep the ideas coming I appreciate it. Thanks, Pete

[kcsa75]

You might want to reach out to boardmember Daddy'O. He recently put up a shop. Wayne is a great guy and I'm sure he's be happy to share his experience and anything he learned.

Here's a link to what he did:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=620966