454 to be or not to be??? For my son

[1luckykid]

Alright guys I havnt started a build thread yet but like my name says my son is pretty lucky. He is 15 and We picked him up a 1965 chevy c10 sitting on 3/4 running gear and 37" tires. I will get into that more when I start the build thread real soon. But I need some help before I get to that.......

The truck came with a 454 and I'm not sure what to do. I can freshen the 454 up a lot cheaper than I could pick up a crate 350 for. The big problem is the cost of gas for a teenager to be running around in a truck with a 454. So would he be getting that much better gas with the 350 than the 454 or would the 454 be fine with a 2b carb?

[argonaut]

If you gear it right the mileage shouldn't be much worse with the 454. Plus its got the torque to spin those heavy 37s. I wish I had a 454!

[1luckykid]

Oh it definitely has enough torque to spin the tires. The day we brought it home we took it down and I let him do some burn outs before we started stripping it down. I just don't know what to do. On one hand the truck would definitely be one bad truck with that beast under the hood. But so would being able to keep gas in the tank for him.

Does anybody have any experience with both engines?

I mean if we're talking 1-2 mpg difference, then it's not worth it.

[argonaut]

My only reference is what I have:
1966 K10, 5000lb, 402/SM465/NP205/D44/14BFF, 4.10:1, 315/75R16 = 10mpg
1964 C10, 4500lb, 350(RV Cam)/TH400/12B, 3.73:1, 235/85R16 = 14(ish)mpg

[earl84]

You already have everything set up on the truck for the 454 to work properly. You might be surprised at the cost of all the little odds and ends that you end up having to buy to make the 350 work properly. Plus it will take a lot of gas to make up the difference in paying for a new crate 350 versus freshening a running, driving 454.
I say leave the 454 and have him get a job to pay for gas. That's what our parents would have had us do. It'll make him appreciate everything more, and teach valuable life lessons in the long run. We sure do spoil our kids these days, haha. I am just as guilty as the next guy, but they are all pretty much on their own now, and not asking for anything from me anymore, so I did something right.

[TheCougarine]

I have to agree with what the others are saying, you could buy a lot of gas for the 454 for what it would cost to put a 350 in it.

[argonaut]

I also think that disconnecting the secondaries or using a 2bbl carb is a good idea. A 16 year old WILL get himself into trouble with a vehicle that is big and fast. What transmission does the truck have?
How many miles do you think he'll really drive in a week?

[Dans66Chevy]

I would keep the 454 with a two barrel and a throttle stop. Keep the young man from showing off like we all did...lol As far as fuel usage. I can remember when I first put my 66 Impala on the road when I was 16. I put in $20. A few days later I was like where in the hell did that $20 go so fast...lol

[66LSx]

Scrap the rebuild 454 costs......

Sell the 454,

Do an 4.8 or 5.3L Vortec/4L60e LSx swap....

Give him the HP of a 454 big block (probably not the best idea but...)
And give him the MPG of an leaned out inline 6
Along with the reliability that superceedes all of the above...

My last "DD" tank of fuel before winter returned just short of 21.7 MPG.

I did not 'drive it to maximize MPG'.... 23-26 is in the cards of the grandma driving window.

You both might learn a thing or two... and technology is fun!

EDIT: Buddy up to your engine programmer and limit the throttle input % and/or Rev limiter for full on helicopter parental privileges
NOTE: I'm not that old yet to remember that I would hate you for it if you were my dad.
Note2: Just became a father... would do as 'EDIT' says

[Chris Coufal]

I sold the 454 and transmission out of mine and paid for the entire cost of the LQ4 and 4L60E trans. I'd follow the advice above.

[Chevy Fleetside]

I have a BB in my Short bed and I would not let my son drive it if he or when he gets to 16. It is just a stock 89 burb motor and it would get him in trouble. Not only with the speed but jonny law. It won't be the gas stations taking his money it will be the court houses from the speeding tickets and such.
I am going to try the LS swap for my daily driver just for more MPG's. I don't konw what I am getting with the BB but I know it is more then 10. It has a 700R4 behind it and a 800 CFM Q Jet. I also don't open up the secondaries to much.

[earl84]

LE option is not a bad idea either, if you can sell that 454. Actually, that's a great idea, but it violates m KISS principle, haha.

[earl84]

I like the sell the 454 to pay for the LS option, too. Violates my KISS principle, bu it's a great option. Might delay his ability to drive it significantly while you learn everything abou LS engines, though.

[Chris Coufal]

Just remember.....with the 454/trans combo you have can be sold to fund a 350/T400 build and be in and out relatively cheap and quick. They are easy to work on and will make as little or as much power as you want.

When I sold my 454/T400 combo, I made $2200. I bought my LQ4/4L60E for $2000. The difference is I also had to buy a FI tank, pay to modify the harness, bought a new radiator/fan with steam port, pay to have VATS removed from PCM, have to buy all new pressurized fuel lines, new radiator hoses, belts and all sorts of other bells and whistles just to get it running. It will be an investment to switch over to an LS....but it will be more economical, smoother/better ride, potentially make more power when needed and be a better overall driver combo.

[TopFuel1966]

Originally Posted by chris coufal

i sold the 454 and transmission out of mine and paid for the entire cost of the lq4 and 4l60e trans. I'd follow the advice above.

x2!!

[1luckykid]

Well crap. Now Im more confused on what to do than before. I get the idea of selling the 454 but I have my grandpas 1971 3/4 ton long bed two wheel drive that I could put the 454 in and make it a sleeper. And if I do that then I am coming out of pocket completely for the ls conversion. I would like to do the ls conversion but I don't know if I can get myself to sell the 454. I already sold my 78 cj7 to do this build! Would someone just make the decision for me? If I leave it up to my son the 454 is going back in. What to do, what to do?

Thanks everybody for your input!

[66LSx]

Originally Posted by 1luckykid

If I leave it up to my son the 454 is going back in. What to do, what to do?

Thanks everybody for your input!

At 15... I was a year into my first job... Dad told me any toys that I could come up with the half the cash upfront.... he'd loan me the other half...

Teach a kid to earn, save, and long term saving sacrifice = long term reward... values like that last a life time.

Give the kid a reason to be involved more ways then one... have him help fund the powertrain project. (in whichever direction you decide to go).

Kiddo learns some financial responsibility, you ea$e up on your wallet end, he's got a skin in the end game (if your OK with really giving him the truck to be his thru and thru).


Does your son have an inkling on which direction he would like?

LS can be programmed safe, 454 can be carbed safe (jets, secondaries link etc) and a 350 can still cause problems of its own.

Is the rear axle limited slip or a one wheel wonder? If its an open diff... leave it... and you'll always have a training wheel from keeping the back end from coming around "sometimes."

Trying to give you ideas to help narrow down... hopefully not more headaches.

[1luckykid]

He is helping finance some of the truck, and what ever spare time he has between school and sports he works for me. I have always told both of my boys that I would help build them what ever truck they want as long as they had above a 3.5 and were involved in school sports. One of the main reasons we are building a truck instead of getting a newer one is hopefully he'll respect it more. I see all of my sons buddy's that are driving already and how some do and some don't respect there cars or trucks.

I wanna say I am leaning towards doing the 350. And maybe it's me being kind of selfish wanting to put the 454 in my grandpas truck he left me. that is the only reason that I don't want to sell the 454 to fund an Ls build. The Ls build is definitely the smartest move but a lot more expensive. To do the Ls it would probably run me between $3-4,000. For that I could buy him a little Honda civic for a commuter and just throw the 454 back in it for the bad ass factor.

Here's a picture the day we brought it home....

[66LSx]

Have your cake and eat it too.

Offer to 'buy' the 454 from him for grandpas truck... if you put say $500 toward a 350 powertrain.

You save the 454 and 'some' money... he gains a $500 car part incentive to put an updated reliable 350 under the hood...

Grandpas truck gets a 454 for 1/4 of the retail cost.

A 350 with a nice intake manifold, maybe headers, a set of new valve covers and air filter... turns heads like everything else.

Might not care of 350 vs 454 if the 350 motor has a little bit of bling (shiny chrome) he can show off to his friends.


Trying ideas here...take them with a grain of salt... either way your already on the right track my simply being an involved parent.

[bmur66]

Nice project. My 2 cents is this. If fuel mileage is a big concern then maybe you got the wrong vehicle. With that being said, if your big block was installed properly and everything is put together well then I'd stick with it. All the miscellaneous stuff that goes with an engine change can eat up your time and budget. Big Blocks are still old school cool. Good luck whatever you decide.

[Captainfab]

I would say it would depend on whether the 454 was installed correctly, or if most of that has to be redone. If it has to be redone, then a small block or better yet a LSx install would be a good choice....IMO.

[Revelation]

I had a 454 as a teenager don't do it for gas mileage and other reasons

[1luckykid]

I think we kind of got off of track. My main reason for posting this was to see if there would be much difference between the 454 and the 350 as far as gas milage went. If Hes only gona get 1 or 2 miles more pg doing the 350 over the 454 with a 2 barrel then I'm just gona stick with the 454. Thanks guys for all,of the post.

[BigDan3131]

All that being said your/his mileage will depend on gearing and the transmission more than whether or not its a BBC or SBC. Without the right gears it will be a dog off the line and also eating more fuel, add to that a small block that's built stock with a holley 2 barrel and gas mileage will suffer because of it. But since he's spinning the tires now it must be geared right otherwise it wouldn't. Keep the 454 but just go to a 600 cfm carb as you will lose power due to it being smaller and then just put a good OD trans in it.