Starter won't stop

[barmanvarn]

'69 GMC, Straight 6, 230ci

Apologies in advance if I provide too much info here.

Truck hasn't run in years...spent a lot of time replacing gaskets, fluids, etc. First turn of the key was a few weeks ago. Engine turned over , but wouldn't start. Was thinking bad coil so went to install a new one today.

While I was at it, I decided to put some new battery cables on. Went to remove the positive from the starter solenoid and the entire bolt broke off the starter (plastic had gotten old and brittle). So I picked up a new solenoid and got it installed. (never done that before but seemed pretty simple)

Figured I'd turn the key (this is only the 2nd attempt ever) just to make sure the engine still turned over. Ignition felt kind of sluggish when turning the key, and the key didn't "spring" back. This is when I started freaking out because the starter kept going even with the key turned off. Had to disco the battery to get it to stop.

My initial thought was that the ignition has gone bad, but I also tried a remote starter that I just bought (hooked to positive and starter terminal on solenoid) and when I pulled the trigger the same thing happened as when I turned the key.

Any suggestions here? I don't see that I could have done anything wrong installing the new solenoid but anything is possible.

I'm far from a pro on ignition system so I have no clue what the issue could be. I'm open to all suggestions and feel free to assume I'm an idiot.

[Oldtruckfanatic]

It sounds like the spring inside the solenoid either isnt there or the solenoid is sticking in the extended position or its shorting the battery terminal to the solenoid post internally when you energize it. I would look up a solenoid diagram and revisit your assembly of the solenoid first since it does it with both the key switch and the remote start switch.

[Oldtruckfanatic]

Also if your truck has a points type distributor I would make sure you got the wire that goes on the other solenoid post back on the correct post.

[barmanvarn]

Originally Posted by Oldtruckfanatic

It sounds like the spring inside the solenoid either isnt there or the solenoid is sticking in the extended position or its shorting the battery terminal to the solenoid post internally when you energize it. I would look up a solenoid diagram and revisit your assembly of the solenoid first since it does it with both the key switch and the remote start switch.

Thanks for the feedback. The spring is definitely there. When attaching the wires back to the solenoid, I did note that they are are pretty close together so I made sure there wasn't any contact between the wires/terminals.

Originally Posted by Oldtruckfanatic

Also if your truck has a points type distributor I would make sure you got the wire that goes on the other solenoid post back on the correct post.

It does have a distro, but it's not hooked up right now as I had removed the coil prior to this mess starting.

Can someone ease my curiosity and explain exactly how the starter/solenoid works. This is one of those things I always took for granted until yesterday's debacle.

Also, is there any chance the issue lies in the ignition switch? I ask because the key felt hard to turn. A new one costs $25 bucks. I need to replace it anyways so was just curious if replacing it may solve the issue.

thanks again

[geezer#99]

Do you have a points type distributor or an HEI.
Points type has an external coil and an HEI has the coil in the cap.
Sounds like you have a wiring problem.
HEI means high energy ignition.

[barmanvarn]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Do you have a points type distributor or an HEI.
Points type has an external coil and an HEI has the coil in the cap.
Sounds like you have a wiring problem.
HEI means high energy ignition.

Points distro.

Can you expand on "wiring problem"? I reattached the wires to the solenoid exactly as they were before and verified there wasn't any contact between the wires/terminals on the solenoid.

I've gone ahead and ordered a new ignition switch since I needed a new one regardless.

Not looking forward to working on the solenoid again as the reach is a bit difficult. Was not a fun job installing it. LOL

[RichardJ]

>>Not looking forward to working on the solenoid again as the reach is a bit difficult. Was not a fun job installing it. LOL <<

You won't find an easier starter to work on, in any vehicle.
Pull the complete starter off and find out what is wrong with the solenoid replacement.

[geezer#99]

Normal points set up is like this.
Wire from ignition switch to S terminal on solenoid (outside terminal has a purple wire).
Inside (close to block) terminal has a yellow wire.
That yellow wire goes up and is teed in with the resistor wire to the positive on the coil.
When the solenoid is activated the yellow wire supplies 12 v to the coil. Only for starting. When you release the key to the run position then power to the coil comes from the resistor wire.
Usually if it continues to run then you have the yellow wire on the wrong terminal.

[barmanvarn]

Originally Posted by geezer#99

Normal points set up is like this.
Wire from ignition switch to S terminal on solenoid (outside terminal has a purple wire).
Inside (close to block) terminal has a yellow wire.
That yellow wire goes up and is teed in with the resistor wire to the positive on the coil.
When the solenoid is activated the yellow wire supplies 12 v to the coil. Only for starting. When you release the key to the run position then power to the coil comes from the resistor wire.
Usually if it continues to run then you have the yellow wire on the wrong terminal.

Hmmm.

I was worried about getting the S and R wires reversed so I took a pic before removing the old solenoid. I have the yellow on the outside (S) terminal and the purple one is on the terminal (R) next to the block. That's how it was before and it did crank just fine before the change.

Not saying I disagree, just saying I am sure I wired it back the way it was before.

Also, thanks for the info on what the various wires do. Thanks!

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by barmanvarn

Hmmm.

I was worried about getting the S and R wires reversed so I took a pic before removing the old solenoid. I have the yellow on the outside (S) terminal and the purple one is on the terminal (R) next to the block. That's how it was before and it did crank just fine before the change.

Not saying I disagree, just saying I am sure I wired it back the way it was before.

Also, thanks for the info on what the various wires do. Thanks!

That would be wrong, yellow goes to the R terminal and purple goes to the S terminal.

LockDoc

[barmanvarn]

Originally Posted by LockDoc

That would be wrong, yellow goes to the R terminal and purple goes to the S terminal.

LockDoc

Sorry, I may not be correctly remembering which was which on the solenoid.

That being said, the terminals on the new solenoid matched correctly with the old one and I'm 100% certain that the yellow was on the outside on the old solenoid.

Should I try swapping them anyways? Any potential harm in doing this?

[franken]

Check and make sure the solenoid is wired correctly. There's no point in reversing the wires if they're on right.
The yellow wire feeds the ignition 12V when the solenoid is engaged. To troubleshoot the starter run on, you don't need it.
The purple wire comes from the ignition switch and turns on the solenoid.
The solenoid switches power from the big + cable to turn on the starter, and moves the starter drive (Bendix) out to engage the flywheel.
You can disconnect the battery - terminal and measure from the S-terminal to the battery - terminal for 12V with the key in the run (or off) and then in start position. If you have 12V there with the key off the problem is back toward the ignition switch, a crossed wire, or...
If there is no voltage at the S-terminal when the ignitions switch isn't in the start position and the starter runs on you have a problem at the solenoid. You might try loosening the 2 screws holding it to the starter nose a bit to see if it's twisted and jamming.

[barmanvarn]

Originally Posted by franken

Check and make sure the solenoid is wired correctly. There's no point in reversing the wires if they're on right.
The yellow wire feeds the ignition 12V when the solenoid is engaged. To troubleshoot the starter run on, you don't need it.
The purple wire comes from the ignition switch and turns on the solenoid.
The solenoid switches power from the big + cable to turn on the starter, and moves the starter drive (Bendix) out to engage the flywheel.
You can disconnect the battery - terminal and measure from the S-terminal to the battery - terminal for 12V with the key in the run (or off) and then in start position. If you have 12V there with the key off the problem is back toward the ignition switch, a crossed wire, or...
If there is no voltage at the S-terminal when the ignitions switch isn't in the start position and the starter runs on you have a problem at the solenoid. You might try loosening the 2 screws holding it to the starter nose a bit to see if it's twisted and jamming.

Thanks. I'll look into all of that.

Something I meant to ask.....forgive yet another dumb question....

Disconnecting the battery stops it from cranking, but why doesn't it start again when I reconnect the battery?

It's like a connection is getting stuck, but that connection reopens/resets when the battery is disconnected. Can anyone explain how this happens?

thanks

[barmanvarn]

Not sure if this helps any, but I did find a color diagram for the V8. I assume my 6 cylinder "should" be the same.

It shows the yellow and purple to be connected the way I have them now.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=185665

[barmanvarn]

Good news!

Popped another new starter solenoid on today and now it works just fine. Man, I was so nervous turning the key (I'm not a lucky man). Also installed a new ignition switch.

Now to move on to the rest of the ignition system and the fuel system.