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01-08-2015, 08:59 PM | #1 |
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Looking for some guidance with my first project
Hey guys,
This my new to me '72 C10 and it's my first project and I was looking for some opinions on what routes I should take on some things. I'm going to be on a super tight budget because I am in university, but I want to do this once and do it right. First off, the engine. Its an original 350 truck, but has a '78-'79 305 with a crappy 2 barrel Rochester carb on it. Should I look around for a solid 350, buy a donor vehicle with a vortec 350 and convert it to carb, build the 305 with some mild bolt on's, or look for a big block? The 305 doesn't exactly run, but I'm 95% sure its the carb and I'm not going to bother with it, the carb is junk. Secondly, the transmission. The old one is pretty much toast. What am I looking for that bolts onto that 305 or a 350? Its an auto now and that's the way I'd like to keep it, but how hard would a manual swap be? Body work is not all that bad, Inner front fenders are bad, driver door is a little bad and there are some bad spots in the bed floor. I really like the wood bed floors. How hard is it to convert from steel to wood? My father is pretty handy when it comes to wood working. Also, whats the best place to get replacement body panels and/or fenders? Last thing on the list right now is suspension. Not looking to slam is or anything but would like a nice level stance with a half decent ride. What's the best option for a drop kit? Any input is greatly appreciated! How it looked and how it looks right now right now: |
01-09-2015, 01:18 AM | #2 | |
The Older Generation
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
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Welcome to the board. I just came across your thread but I'm getting ready to go to bed. I will try to answer some of your questions in the morning. This will get your post back to the top and maybe some other folks will chime in too. LockDoc
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01-09-2015, 01:58 AM | #3 |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
Welcome! I think your best bet is just finding a solid 350 get an edlebrock intake and a Holley or edelbrock 4 barrel. Any turbo 350 or 400 will bolt up to the block, its the crossmember that may need to be changed, not sure on the length issues. Uhm, replacement body panels are gonna probably cost a ton more since you're across the border. I'd look around for solid OEM parts off other trucks. If you go up to the search bar and click the 67-72 bullet and search "Steel bed to wood" or the like, you should get a ton of hits. If you want trim molding or bed wood hit up Mar-K out of OKC Oklahoma. They're the go to people here for that stuff. Not sure on suspension as I'm gonna use a 5/7 kit.... Good luck and again welcome to the board!
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01-09-2015, 02:24 AM | #4 |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
Hello and welcome to the forum!
Great looking project, and welcome to Chevy truck ownership. First off, the engine. Its an original 350 truck, but has a '78-'79 305 with a crappy 2 barrel Rochester carb on it. Should I look around for a solid 350, buy a donor vehicle with a vortec 350 and convert it to carb, build the 305 with some mild bolt on's, or look for a big block? The 305 doesn't exactly run, but I'm 95% sure its the carb and I'm not going to bother with it, the carb is junk. This really depends on what your long-term goal for the truck is. If you are wanting a truck that is original or modified to perform more like a new truck would determine what you do with the engine. Many folks like to swap out the old engines and put in a newer engine and transmission combo. Some prefer to keep it close to original. In terms of money, a crate motor 350 might be the cheapest of the routes, but still give you respectable power while keeping originality. Secondly, the transmission. The old one is pretty much toast. What am I looking for that bolts onto that 305 or a 350? Its an auto now and that's the way I'd like to keep it, but how hard would a manual swap be? I’d replace with either a TH350 or TH400, but I am not sure if you’d need to do anything different to fit the TH400. The TH350 would be the easiest and cheapest to obtain, but the TH400 will handle more power. Others will chime in to fill in where I am unable. Switching to a manual would entail swapping over to a new steering column, as well as cutting the floor to install a shift stick. Body work is not all that bad, Inner front fenders are bad, driver door is a little bad and there are some bad spots in the bed floor. I really like the wood bed floors. How hard is it to convert from steel to wood? My father is pretty handy when it comes to wood working. Also, whats the best place to get replacement body panels and/or fenders? To replace the bed from steel to wood, you’d need a new header board and cross-supports. As far as the replacement body panels/fenders, go OEM. You’ll have far less headaches when it comes to fitting. Last thing on the list right now is suspension. Not looking to slam is or anything but would like a nice level stance with a half decent ride. What's the best option for a drop kit? Give this section a look: Suspension Link
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01-09-2015, 02:57 AM | #5 |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
If it ain't broke don't fix it! There's nothing wrong with a 305. I would say financially, swap to a 4 bbl, ensure the fuel lines are solid and leaks are taken care of, and rebuild or replace that TH350. Then run that motor till it dies. An engine swap can be done in a weekend and you'd be up and running, so there's no point dumping a big chunk of money on an engine swap that isn't necessary.
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01-09-2015, 03:49 AM | #6 |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
Personally if low on cash, I'd rebuild the existing carb and drive it. Not sure why the carb is crappy?
How can you tell the trans is toast if the truck doesn't run? Regardless a rebuild is less money than converting to manual. Oddly, changing from a steel to wood bed is about $1k USD or more. You need cross sills, front bulkhead work, wood (you can cut yourself). Aftermarket inner fenders can probably be made to fit, but chances are the core support is rotted under the battery. Patches are available. The bottom line is all your ideas are expensive and you state you have little money. Next, basic maintenance--oil change, grease, trans fluid, diff lube, brake flush, tuneup, frontend parts check/replace, and brake work aren't discussed. These are step one when buying a new used vehicle and are $1000 minimum. Go look at the oil. Is it black or honey colored? Yep, these aren't sexy but they are important. Off topic but related to the last paragragh: I once had a rich friend whose mom bought him a 26k 72 GMC. The truck was perfect. I was under it one day and saw all but one rear leaf was broken at the diff on one side. I told him and his mom that it was a death trap and the truck would go sideways into a tree when the last leaf let go. Nobody listened. It did just that and the truck was totaled. I hate the rich but I can predict the future... A $200 set of springs or just one would have saved the truck. |
01-09-2015, 08:26 AM | #7 |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
Hi and welcome!
I am in a similar cash crunch as you are. Here is what I have done so far and it has worked for me very well. first make it run, then make it stop. I say get the 305 running so you can drive it. this may mean a new intake and carb but these can be swapped to a new engine in the future if you get the right parts. If you can get the old engine running well it could help fund the engine swap in the future. Then I recommend adding a brake booster so you have power brakes... while you do this go through the brake system and repair and replace as needed... this is not very expensive and you will be sure you can stop when you need to. next I would do suspension, bearing, ball joints, springs and shocks. Sway Bars and shock relocates really help these trucks. I dropped my truck 2.5"/5 with drop spindles up front and springs in the back... think very carefully about what you want before you do so you don't do it again. At some point I want to switch to air bags, for a few reasons, not to slam the truck. Don't just cut or sag springs, spend the money and do it right. once the truck is running, driving, stopping, and sitting how you want it, focus on the body work and the engine. I am building a creat 350 for mine right now and have almost all the body panels to keep my truck all original sheet metal. I say get her running and if the trans really is bad, swap in another th350. once you have some miles on her you can decide if you want to do the manual swap. I wanted to do the manual as well, both mine and my wife's daily drivers are manuals, but it is nice to drive the truck with the auto and I don't want to go through all the hassle of switching over to a floor shift... I would consider a Colum shift if I could find a 3 speed od trans.... It's worth it to keep the auto when you can have your arm around your girl and she is sitting in the middle and you don't have to shift, this might also be a case for power steering, but Im sticking with the manual box. Guys will think it's cool that you are shifting, the girls don't care and would rather cuddle... Priorities. |
01-09-2015, 09:59 AM | #8 |
The Older Generation
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
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Wow! Looks like you got some good suggestions. I also agree with the thoughts to keep the 305 for now. Do the maintenance stuff, drive it for a while and think about what you really want to do. I just like driving the old trucks. I don't care what it has in it for a drive line. I have I6 250's, I6 292's 327's, 350's, 454's, and I just bought an LS1 to put in my '67 Panel Truck. I have 2 barrels, Quadrajet's, Edelbrock's, Holley's and even a Barry Grant Road Demon Jr. If they are in good shape or rebuilt, and setup correctly, they will all perform as they should. Every one of mine does exactly what I want it to do..... Good luck with what ever you decide to do. LockDoc
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01-09-2015, 11:21 AM | #9 |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
You say you're in university and on a budget. That leads me to believe that you are younger. You didn't say what makes you think the carb is crappy but remember that this is 40+ year old tech and you shouldn't expect FI type start and run characteristics. That may be the only carb problem since you probably haven't driven carbed vehicles before.Make it stop, make it go and drive it a while. Then when you know what things you really need/want to change to do what you like, start with that.
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01-09-2015, 03:47 PM | #10 |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
I agree with everyone else.
It's gonna be hard to do it right, on a budget, while going to school. I'd advise you not to tear it down any further and consider putting it back together. Many projects get all torn down, life happens, and projects get sold on craigslist for pennies on the dollar. I think you should do some minor cheap diagnostic work on the 305 and see if you can get it running at least you could use it as transportation while you are still in school. How do you know the trans is bad? Fluid changes have been known to perform miracles on old trans. If the fluid looks bad after you get it running, remove the upper cooler line on the trans and slip a piece of rubber hose over the flare, and aim it into a drain pan or bucket. Start the engine and run it til it spits air and shut it down. Remove the pan, replace the filter and pan gasket, put 4 quarts of fluid in it and start it again and pump that fluid through it til it spits again then re-install the cooler pipe and put another 3 quarts of fluid in it and add til it registers on the stick in park, then get it warmed up good and top it off to the bottom side of the safe zone on the dipstick. You now have 95% new fluid as opposed to the 45% you get when you only drop the pan. If any hesitation dropping in gear, use some trans-x with the fluid so when you fill it stay on the low side to leave room for that if necessary. If not, add a little more til it's halfway up on the safe zone on the dipstick warmed up in park. While you are under there, remove the vacuum hose from the modulator valve and if there is any wetness inside of it just replace it. Cheap, easy. Last edited by mechanicalman; 01-09-2015 at 03:49 PM. Reason: add-on |
01-10-2015, 12:29 AM | #11 |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
I guess I am with the majority.
I say fix the motor in the truck if it is running and not smoking and knocking. I would just put a new manifold and carb on it if you find that yours is really junk. That truck looks very respectable, run it like it is, and since you are short of cash, RESIST the urge to go fast! As soon as you start down the GO FAST route, it is a very slippery slope. Most can not handle it so the truck sits waiting for an influx of cash to continue, while you have a vehicle that sits on jack stands, or with a motor on an engine stand. (been there bought the T-shirt) ALSO, you may want to sell the truck 3-5 or 7 years from now, and there are very, very few people that ever get their money out of the go fast parts, or a restoration for that matter. Plus, it will limit your buyers, I would venture to say that the average buyer for a truck like yours just wants a good solid running and driving vehicle. If they wanted a hot rod they are probably not looking at a truck. With a vehicle like yours, if you do just what it takes to make it a safe, good running vehicle you should be able to get most of your money out of it if you decide to sell it down the road. I recommend that you sock away 20-30 per week or month for what ever you want to do AFTER YOU FINISH SCHOOL ! Good luck, Jim |
01-10-2015, 01:39 AM | #12 |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
Thanks for all the great replies guys.
First off, I'd like to say the truck is my Grandfather's old truck that has bounced around in the family for years, until recently it got out of the family and when I became old enough, 18 as I am now. I know most of the history of the truck. And I will not be getting rid of the truck anytime in the future. It's priceless to me so things are going to have to be really rough before I sell it. I think I will stick with the 305 for now, I think I may have an intake for a 4bbl for it so its only finding the carb. The old one is junk because it has been through the hands of many professional mechanics with no luck over the last few years (no under my ownership) and the last year it has sat outside in the north-Atlantic air so now it is pretty corroded. Best bet is to start from scratch. Then trans is not exactly toast, sorry about that. It leaks real bad around the shifter linkage. It was at and auto-tech school while my cousin had it and the casing is worn too badly for the seals to seal. That's why I would be looking for a replacement. I guess you guys are right wit the body work. I'll patch it enough to get by for now, to get it on the road until I know the truck well enough to know what it need mechanically. As for brakes and the Power booster, I'm sure there are lots of links on here to great threads. Anyone mind posting one? Thanks again guys. Hopefully I'll be back soon with more specific questions! I only get home around one weekend a month from school so my wrenching time is limited, but midterm break is in February so I'll be doing lots then! |
01-10-2015, 02:41 AM | #13 | |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
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I worked on these transmissions for many years, and never saw one that the case was so worn that the selector shaft seal would not seal. Can you clarify? I advise you to go ahead and install a new selector shaft seal yourself. http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-GMC-Turbo...feebb0&vxp=mtr The shafts tend to mushroom a little where the bracket bolts to the end of the shaft on the two flat spots; this is the reason for most failed shift shaft seal replacements as it will cut/damage the seal upon installation. After removing the old seal, inspect the shaft for burrs in case someone tried to replace the seal without the proper tool and made a burr on the sealing portion of the shaft. If this is the case, you will need a new or good used shaft and still not that hard to install and easy if you plan to install a new filter and pan gasket. Let me know if you need to do that I will walk you through it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/TH350-Manual...c8a277&vxp=mtr Use these tools, after you remove the old seal with the seal puller on the left in the picture, make sure you dress the exposed part of the shaft with very fine emery cloth (you may have to start with an emery board if the protrusion is pronounced) and spray brake clean in there to remove any grit. Spray the shaft and the seal with spray silicone lube then use the blunt curve of a paper clip to guide the lip of the seal over the shaft on the flat areas then use the driver on the right in the picture to pound it into the case with a small hammer. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Transmission...-/141290231997 |
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01-10-2015, 06:36 AM | #14 | |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
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01-10-2015, 10:51 AM | #15 |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
It's a nice looking truck, and I understand the sentimental value. I have one that has been in my family for 40 years. When you are on a limited budget, you have to get your priorities in order. The first things are to work with what you have and get it driveable and make sure it is safe. Later on, as your finances allow, then you can make upgrades and improvements as you go. That's part of the fun in owning these old classics. There's nothing wrong with a 305. I drove mine with the original 307 for many years until I was able to swap it out with a 400. There's lots of good people on here willing to offer advice and help you along.
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01-10-2015, 07:41 PM | #16 |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
do you have access to a shop?? air compressor etc?.305's are good they have 350cid rotating assy. The cyl heads can be good. check the casting#. I pocket ported a set of 305HO heads/valve job cost $200.I would leave the motor in it a nd drive it. Save your money for what mill you really want!! If you don't have the original motor then you could go the route of Farmtruck!!
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01-11-2015, 11:32 AM | #17 | |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
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01-11-2015, 11:42 AM | #18 |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
I have a 68' with a 350 swapped into it, its a 2bbl with a TH350 trans. Im gonna tell you right now that a 350 motor would be your best option, easy to find, not too expensive. 350's are REALLY easy motors to work on. Also, id go with a TH350 transmission, because they are more available and cheaper to purchase. Im either going to swap in a bigger motor or go for its original 307, but for now im keeping the 350 until I have the money to do the swap I want.
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01-11-2015, 11:48 AM | #19 |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
well, that is if you plan to swap it, the cheapest thing for you to do as it sits right now is just fix the 305. then once you get a bit more money and time, then think about a swap if you still aren't happy with the 305.
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01-22-2015, 12:09 AM | #20 |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
Hey guys, got a couple more specific questions this time so hopefully somebody can help me out.
1) I'm trying to source some engine parts. But what is the exact info I would need to get something like headers or an intake? What "bolt-ons" are actually interchangeable between what seems to be a 76 305 out of different vehicles? Would headers or an intake off of any 305 c10 work per say? I am unsure what the motor is actually out of as it is not original. I done some digging and a little research and this is what I came up with: Block casting number is 460778, which from my research is a 1976-1979 305. Head casting number is 376450, which I found to be a 1975-1976 262/305. Exhaust manifold casting number appears to be 3832488 or 3832468 (driver's side) Intake casting number looks to be 14014436. (2 barrel carb) 2) Brakes. Where is the best place to find brake parts for these trucks? How hard or beneficial is it to do a power brake conversion on the stock drums? 3) Are there any really good reference manuals out there that are worth having? Everything and anything from small block Chevys in general to a repair manual for my truck. 4) What are the other things that need to be gone through before I get this old girl on the road? 5) Best way to clear an engines throat after 30 odd years, with most of its life sitting around. 6) Stick with the stock intake and get a new 2 barrel carb or is it worth getting a 4 barrel for? Hope you guys got some good input. Thanks |
01-22-2015, 01:27 AM | #21 | |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
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2. I don't know the best place to get brakes for these trucks. As far as going power brakes on the drums, I don't see why not. But, if the drum brakes need rebuilding, I'd go disc, power or non power they stop better than drums. I'm 100% sure someone on this forum can steer you to good brake parts supplier. 3. Repair manual, again, the others on this forum will be more helpful than I. 4. You are on the right track, the brakes need to be bled and checked for leaks, and be assured the master cylinder is not by-passing (pedal going to the floor). 5. The fuel might be sour, and the tank might need cleaned out and the "fuel sock" replaced; it actually might be the culprit if you think the 2bbl carb is bad. Change the oil and filter before you fire it up, remove the spark plugs and spray some WD-40 in the cylinders then crank it over with the coil wire removed and get those pistons moving before you re-install the plugs. If it has points check them for burning and gappage, plus cap and rotor for wear. 6. IF IT HAS the original 2bbl, I'd advise against replacing it. I'd sooner put a repair kit in the original carb if you want to just get it running. Make sure you have good, clean, non-varnished fuel first and that it's getting enough to the carb. If it has a points distributor, that's OK if you don't mind changing points once in a while. But if you remove the intake then you would have it off anyway so you could go HEI. Just make sure you replace the power wire to the coil all the way to the fuse block with a 12ga wire. Let me know if you do this I'll walk you through it. Top off the diff oil. |
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01-22-2015, 05:00 PM | #22 | |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
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Thanks for the great info. As for brakes disks aren't really in the budget right now. They "work" as is but I know I need at least new lines. The reason I was thinking about converting to a 4 barrel is that I already have an intake that came off of a 350. The distributor is fairly new so I doubt ill be changing that out just yet. |
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01-22-2015, 07:01 PM | #23 | |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
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What type of intake do you have? Square bore or spread bore? Aluminum or cast iron? |
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01-22-2015, 11:32 PM | #24 |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
I shouldn't have said that I have one.. I have one if I want it from the previous owner. Not sure on the bore, all I know is that it's cast iron for a 4 barrel.
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01-22-2015, 11:58 PM | #25 |
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Re: Looking for some guidance with my first project
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