Comparison between MustangII IFS systems? (AD Truck)

[Rambow]

Can anyone offer some insight to what actually is different about all the various MustangII IFS systems that are out there for the AD Trucks?

I'm leaning toward a weld in crossmember instead of a bolt in- but beyond that, its very confusing- ever vendor seems to have their own systems, some with just crossmembers, some with everything else... Prices are all over the board.

Are the parts truly interchangeable, or are some specific to the vendors kits?

As far as the crossmembers themselves- do they really vary at all?

Is there any kind of online comparison between some of these vendors/mfgs kits?

[dsraven]

look at the cross tubes for the lower control arm mounting bolts and see if the tubes go all the way through or just have a piece on the front and another on the rear of the member. do they have gussets to brace these tube extensions that protrude out past the cross member-for strength. they are better to have the complete tube front to rear, for stability and to help eliminate cracking.
is the member a welded part made up of a bunch of smaller parts or is it a formed steel part that is welded as little as possible?
do the bushings in the control arms come as a rubber insert or are they urethane or teflon?
look at the upper control arm mount, where the cross shaft mounts up. some have a vertical flat mounting plate and some mount up on the horizontal. the vertical is the newer style.
check out the thickness of the steel for the cross member and the control arms. check the quality of the welds.
check if the ball joints are quality units and if the rubber seals will actually seal the dirt out.
will it come with a stabilizer bar set up?
what size of brakes will it come with?
are the shocks quality units?
do they use over the counter parts that would come stock on a production vehicle-like a ford thunderbird rack, or moog ball joint number___.
would you be using shockwaves, airbags, coilovers, coils or not sure yet? if using coils check out how the upper brackets/coil seats (hats as a lot of guys call them) look. some are flimsier than others.
I have a TCI unit welded in the front of my 57 and when shipped it was for a different truck,maybe an AD, anyway, it didn't seem like anyone was too willing to help so I ended up researching geometry and then cutting it to fit my frame slope and got the geometry right before welding.
make sure to get the rake angle you want all figured out first and use a digital angle finder for set up and for the weld in process. the crossmember has to be level side to side and for and aft, as well as the frame level side to side and at the desired rake angle. get the frame set up on some stands and level it. I used threaded rod for the upright from my jack stands, this allowed me to fine tune the leveling process. I welded some tubing to the top of the stands then used jam nuts on the threaded rod to make sure nothing moved. then. mark the centre of each crossmember with some masking tape and a fine marker. then run a laser or a string line down the middle to connect the dots at both ends and compare the marks, on the cross members in between, to make sure the frame doesn't have any bend from side to side. get it right before committing.
there are a few you tubes on the set up and weld in process and they all look pretty easy but when you go for an alignment they are checking the angles in points of a degree. the lower control arms should be level side to side and upper control arms also have to be at the right angle as well, otherwise when the truck goes over a bump the tires slant in and out, depending on the angle you start with, so the tires can rub the fenders etc if it is out of whack. the upper control arm pivots also need to have some slope to them, down at the rear I think. check out the heidts or fatman fabrications mustangII geometry write up, it is really good at showing what to look for in rack and pinion tie rod lengths and their pivot points compared to the pivot points of the control arms etc. I set mine up with the lower control arms level and the upper control arms angled down towards the frame very slightly. that way when the tires go over a bump they will slant inward slightly as they go up.
if you get the wrong stuff or weld it in wrong you will end up with horrible handling characteristics so it is advised to do your homework first and double check everything first. a little research on steering geometry goes a long way when it comes time to weld. it is a good idea to talk to a few hotrod shops and see what they are using and why. actually put eyes on a product so you can compare.
sorry, long winded gene took over there for a sec. I hit the reset button so should be ok now, ha ha.

[Race.it]

Do you have links to these geometry write ups?

[dsraven]

sorry, I can't seem to find the heidts tech link for the mustangII front end. I did google and found the fatman article. try this in the search bar on google

Explaining the modern Mustang II IFS as Fatman Fabrications builds it and in terms you’ll understand!

[Rambow]

So, is the geometry location only an issue for some kits (like ultra handling type applications?)

The bolt on kits, there can be no adjustability since they sit within the existing framerails...

I would think that the weld on kits (if engineered properly) would be the same- since they just sit on the top and bottom of the frame... You should only have to locate the centerline of the spindle.

[oldman3]

Rambow, kind of hard to answer you question straight out. There are some companies that are questionable. Most are pretty good. I can tell you what I did. My crossmember was from a company called Lunatic (no longer in business), I used Heidt's economy upper and lower control arms CA101-E and CA103-E. I used brake set-up by ECI EC703CK. My rack unit, springs, tie rod ends and swap bar from JPL street rod parts (not sure if their in business now). So yes you can use other pieces to make up your unit. I wanted my front end built this way. I used what I thought were the best parts from different suppliers. ECI brakes for the MII spindle can be standard width, or by changing the caliper it will move it out 3/4" per side. This is what I used to work with the wheels I wanted. As mentioned above I would use TCI or Fatman's new crossmember with the vertical plate for upper arms now, will be much easier to align. Hope this doesn't muddy up things for you...Jim

[oldman3]

Rambow, the geometery that is being talked about is the anti-dive built into the top hats. Years ago some companies built their hats flat (no good) other had the anti-dive built in. This helped with two things. One when you slammed on your brakes the front bumper wouldn't hit the payment. Two it also gave you more caster which helps with running down the road straight. This is a simple answer and I know someone will correct me. I'm not a engineer, just what I've read over many years...Jim

[dsraven]

ok, i found the heidts write up on my laptop. maybe it will help.
If i was gonna do it again i would look for a bolt in unit, personally, because it comes as a completely welded assembly. bolt it up and assemble and boom, done deal. no worries about thye welding job etc. who makes a bolt in anyway? there wasn't one available for my 57 when I was looking a couple of years ago.

[shrek55]

Checkout speedwaymotors.com-- I installed their bolt in crossmember and their tubular arms w/disc brakes. Awesome fit-- easy instructions--awesome tech help if needed. On the plus side the upper spring mount is adjustable for ride height-- 2 inches

[50 Chevy LS3]

I did just what you are doing, started researching what brand to use about six months ago. I boiled it down to basically two brands. Fatman and Total Cost Involved. Both made in USA. The parts I've used from TCI seem to fit very well, at least in my experience. Fatman is who I settled on, however. I bought the stage 3 coilover kit and just finished installing it. The reason I picked Fatman is their coilover kit is designed for coilovers, not a coilover conversion for the M2 kit. Both kits have shim alignment, which I like ALOT BETTER. Both have great instructions, Fatman seems to be more accessible via telephone. I'm very happy with my kit.
Fatman pros, IMO.
1. Coilover kit engineered for coilovers.
2. Heavy duty main X-member. 5/16" steel.
3. Only kit for an "AD" truck with no frame c-notch for r&p, unless you buy the super low kit.
4. Heavier A-arms. .188 I believe.
5. A-arms made in house.
Fatman cons, IMO.
1. Expensive, sort of.
2. Sway bar NOT included, extra $180.
3.No boxing plates included, but, you really should build your own, to fit YOUR frame. I used 3/16" steel.
4. Fatmans X-member welds flat on the bottom of your frame, others, such as TCI, incorporate a gusset into their X-member. (you can easily fab your own with Fatman)
I like both companys and have a TCI rear kit on my truck and very happy with it too.
I'm a HUGE fan of "MADE IN USA".