SPID with the fewest options

[Hiluxxulih]

Any SPIDs out there with no options ?

[Pine Bark Auto]

I'll bet there are quite a few. In the mid to late 70's when I worked at a dealership, we usually had at least 1 "price leader" on the lot. If you ran an ad in the paper stating "New Chevy Trucks as low as XXXX.XX, you better be able to show you have or had at least 1. They were not that hard to sell. Great starter vehicle for younger guys (and gals) that were going to aftermarket wheels, tires, stereo, etc. anyway. Many were ordered in the brighter colors like red, blue or yellow just to appeal to those buyers. I seem to remember lots of red ones. Chip.

[Keith Seymore]

Subscribing.

K

[Hiluxxulih]

A few years ago there was a Chevy truck like that for sale on Craigslist here in high desert country of Oregon it was a 1987 v6 no power steering no power brakes and three on the tree , if it would have been a long bed I would have bought it .

[brakenit]

My '84 Custom Deluxe had a 250/3 OTT, manual brakes and manual steering and "standard rear axle". There are a total of 12 lines on the SPID including the model but unfortunately it wasn't stuck very well to the inner fender and it allowed a bunch of dirt to accumulate under it making it hard to read.

I am somewhat confused by the 1N51 option that says "POWER STEERING NOT", is that the normal RPO code for manual steering?

[c10sport]

This is from a 1973 in my files, which I am still working on.

Say Keith Seymour, I have a plant question. I am running the 454SS registry (yes, in addition to my SPID project, I have WAY too much free time) and there's a guy claiming to have the second 454SS built. However, his VIN says otherwise, the last 6 digits of the VIN for the second 454SS I have in my database is 139514, his truck is 156538.

So did the plants randomly pluck trucks off the line and give them a higher VIN sequence than the trucks before and after it?

I know the answer, I am just wondering what your thoughts are.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by brakenit

I am somewhat confused by the 1N51 option that says "POWER STEERING NOT", is that the normal RPO code for manual steering?

Yes. RPO N51 is the code for manual steering (ie "POWER STEERING NOT DESIRED").

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by c10sport

Say Keith Seymour, I have a plant question. I am running the 454SS registry (yes, in addition to my SPID project, I have WAY too much free time) and there's a guy claiming to have the second 454SS built. However, his VIN says otherwise, the last 6 digits of the VIN for the second 454SS I have in my database is 139514, his truck is 156538.

So did the plants randomly pluck trucks off the line and give them a higher VIN sequence than the trucks before and after it?

I know the answer, I am just wondering what your thoughts are.

“Randomly pluck” is kind of an improper visual, so let’s review a bit and then I’ll give my opinion:

Vehicle orders come into the plant and are tracked by the “Dealer order number”. Once the order is approved and the build is scheduled it is assigned either a Carrier Sequence Number (CSN) or Primary Vehicle Identifier (PVI). One of these numbers will be used to track the vehicle through the body shop build and through paint. Once the vehicle is ready to drop from paint into Trim both the VIN and the General Assembly (GA) sequence number are established. The GA sequence number is the gold standard for tracking the build within the assembly plant; the VIN is never mentioned other than to make sure the correct one is installed on that GA sequence number, just like a tune up label or Mulroney window sticker or SPID label. Nobody in the vehicle assembly plant really cares about the VIN (unless it gets messed up).

Having said that the vehicles drop down roughly in VIN sequence, but with the following caveats:
a) Different nameplates can have different VIN sequence starting points, so Chevys increment in one “family” but GMCs or Cadillacs (or Pontiac or Oldsmobile) are incrementing up in a separate cadence.
b) Vehicles can be held up after the VIN is established, for example if the vehicle needs some type of extended off line repair or if downstream workload level is affected (ie, too many manual trans in a row, too many sunroofs in a row, etc). This can be done either via a shunt spur which allows the vehicle to circle/stop in a repair area, or can be as serious as removing the body with a forklift for later reinsertion (in the most dire circumstances).

The chassis with it's assorted major components (frame, engine trans) are started at this time. Keep in mind these will also have to be coordinated with the same GA sequence vehicle being stamped with the same VIN as the body making its way though the other half of the process. Nothing random or spontaneous happens here, because there is too much risk at stake with repect to getting any one of these converging body/chassis builds out of sequence.

I’ve attached a chart below with fictional data in an attempt to highlight this. So you can see it might be impossible to confirm that vehicle 123456 came immediately before vehicle 123457 (unless you were there), but we can usually pretty safely say that vehicle 123456 came before vehicle 125678.

However, what I have described above is true only within a specific plant. Each plant is doing this and incrementing up at its own pace, with no linkage to any other plant, based on line rate, overtime, work stoppages, downtime, etc. So there is no way to compare the VIN build date from any one plant to another (unless you have the actual build date in your database).

So – my interpretation:

If both vehicles were built within the same plant – you are probably right (139514 very likely came before 156538), since you are dealing with the same nameplate (Chevrolet) and therefore are within the same VIN sequence starting point (probably 100001).

If the two vehicles are from different plants – there’s probably no way to know (day wise) which was completed first, at least not without a lot more digging.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Now that that is off my chest:

What makes this guy think he has #2? Somebody told him? Urban legend? Vivid imagination?

Keep in mind there were dozens of development trucks, non-saleable and saleable preproduction units built before any of the production units ever started.

Depending on how serious you are, you could send the VIN(s) to the GM Heritage Center archive and order the specific vehicle invoices for those two trucks.

The invoice will have the actual build date on it and there will be no room for any debate.

K

[Hiluxxulih]

Has there ever been a truck come off the line that was so messed up it had to be junked , because it was dropped or such a strange event happened that it was not repairable ? When I was in high school the auto shop was given a new Chevy truck that was said to have a bent frame , shipping damage maybe , sweet truck sad that it never had a chance , another thing I remember seeing years ago is a train derailed in the shipping yard and destroyed a bunch of GM trucks , the pictures were painful to see .

[undertaker72]

heres a couple longhorn man posted on another spid post , these are pretty sparse outfits see post #10
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...ighlight=spids

it is fun to see all the options that could be bought back then , not now , you take it or move on

[Oregoon]

My '74 GMC LWB has a 250, 3 OTT, no exterior tirm, no folding seat, no power steering or brakes, 2wd, white bumpers, poverty caps, etc... I'll snap a pic of the SPID if you want.

It had 90K original when I bought it. 93K now. Upgraded my ignition to an HEI, otherwise, it's bone stock and in good shape. It's my daily though, and use it for it's original working purpose.

[D13]

Originally Posted by Hiluxxulih

Has there ever been a truck come off the line that was so messed up it had to be junked , because it was dropped or such a strange event happened that it was not repairable ? When I was in high school the auto shop was given a new Chevy truck that was said to have a bent frame , shipping damage maybe , sweet truck sad that it never had a chance , another thing I remember seeing years ago is a train derailed in the shipping yard and destroyed a bunch of GM trucks , the pictures were painful to see .

It was not uncommon for plants to donate vehicles. The Lansing MI factories provided a number of bodies used for weld test or set-up to the local schools and colleges. Complete vehicles were uncommon but not unheard of.

Worst one I ever saw was a top of the line Cadillac that missed a tranfer and fell in a pit on one side. Big fork truck drove over and speared it thru the doors and lifted it out, totalling it. As a new hire I asked why they hadn't take care and lifted it out gently. it was pointed out that the sticker on the car was less than the cost of holding up the line for 6 minutes. After that the plant was losing money.

On the other side of the SPID thing, I have an ex-Ryder truck that has 3 full SPID's of content. I haven't found the SPID on my road commission truck - I suspect the only options are the paint color, since it has 250, 3OTT, manual brakes, and maunal everything else.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Hiluxxulih

Has there ever been a truck come off the line that was so messed up it had to be junked , because it was dropped or such a strange event happened that it was not repairable ? When I was in high school the auto shop was given a new Chevy truck that was said to have a bent frame , shipping damage maybe , sweet truck sad that it never had a chance , another thing I remember seeing years ago is a train derailed in the shipping yard and destroyed a bunch of GM trucks , the pictures were painful to see .

Yep. D13's story is pretty representative.

I've seen bodies fall out of the clamshell at body drop; automated welding equipment in the body shop can wad up a pickup cab like aluminum foil.

K

[Hiluxxulih]

Neat assembly line stories .

[russgt]

I put a full floor pan in a 70 c10 cab for a friend, it was a stepside, 250, 3 on the tree truck. The spid had 2 options, positraction and auxilary springs.

[Motherfrog402]

Mine sure looks like a plain Jane but the SPID has a few options.

[c10sport]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

“Randomly pluck” is kind of an improper visual, so let’s review a bit and then I’ll give my opinion:

Vehicle orders come into the plant and are tracked by the “Dealer order number”. Once the order is approved and the build is scheduled it is assigned either a Carrier Sequence Number (CSN) or Primary Vehicle Identifier (PVI). One of these numbers will be used to track the vehicle through the body shop build and through paint. Once the vehicle is ready to drop from paint into Trim both the VIN and the General Assembly (GA) sequence number are established. The GA sequence number is the gold standard for tracking the build within the assembly plant; the VIN is never mentioned other than to make sure the correct one is installed on that GA sequence number, just like a tune up label or Mulroney window sticker or SPID label. Nobody in the vehicle assembly plant really cares about the VIN (unless it gets messed up).

Having said that the vehicles drop down roughly in VIN sequence, but with the following caveats:
a) Different nameplates can have different VIN sequence starting points, so Chevys increment in one “family” but GMCs or Cadillacs (or Pontiac or Oldsmobile) are incrementing up in a separate cadence.
b) Vehicles can be held up after the VIN is established, for example if the vehicle needs some type of extended off line repair or if downstream workload level is affected (ie, too many manual trans in a row, too many sunroofs in a row, etc). This can be done either via a shunt spur which allows the vehicle to circle/stop in a repair area, or can be as serious as removing the body with a forklift for later reinsertion (in the most dire circumstances).

The chassis with it's assorted major components (frame, engine trans) are started at this time. Keep in mind these will also have to be coordinated with the same GA sequence vehicle being stamped with the same VIN as the body making its way though the other half of the process. Nothing random or spontaneous happens here, because there is too much risk at stake with repect to getting any one of these converging body/chassis builds out of sequence.

I’ve attached a chart below with fictional data in an attempt to highlight this. So you can see it might be impossible to confirm that vehicle 123456 came immediately before vehicle 123457 (unless you were there), but we can usually pretty safely say that vehicle 123456 came before vehicle 125678.

However, what I have described above is true only within a specific plant. Each plant is doing this and incrementing up at its own pace, with no linkage to any other plant, based on line rate, overtime, work stoppages, downtime, etc. So there is no way to compare the VIN build date from any one plant to another (unless you have the actual build date in your database).

So – my interpretation:

If both vehicles were built within the same plant – you are probably right (139514 very likely came before 156538), since you are dealing with the same nameplate (Chevrolet) and therefore are within the same VIN sequence starting point (probably 100001).

If the two vehicles are from different plants – there’s probably no way to know (day wise) which was completed first, at least not without a lot more digging.

K

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Now that that is off my chest:

What makes this guy think he has #2? Somebody told him? Urban legend? Vivid imagination?

Keep in mind there were dozens of development trucks, non-saleable and saleable preproduction units built before any of the production units ever started.

Depending on how serious you are, you could send the VIN(s) to the GM Heritage Center archive and order the specific vehicle invoices for those two trucks.

The invoice will have the actual build date on it and there will be no room for any debate.

K

You've confirmed my suspicions, sir. Thank you. The 454SS was only built at the Fort Wayne plant and only available as a Chevrolet so both VINs start with 1GCDC14N*LZ.

Apparently his dad bought two 1990 454SS's, parked them both - one has 3.8 miles, one has 7 miles - and his dad wanted one of the first SS's made so he called so-and-so at GM and was told he got the second one ever made (156538) when it comes in. I call BS myself, by the VIN. It was built on the 18th of October. I have 1238 other 454SS's built before his.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by c10sport

You've confirmed my suspicions, sir. Thank you. The 454SS was only built at the Fort Wayne plant and only available as a Chevrolet so both VINs start with 1GCDC14N*LZ.

Apparently his dad bought two 1990 454SS's, parked them both - one has 3.8 miles, one has 7 miles - and his dad wanted one of the first SS's made so he called so-and-so at GM and was told he got the second one ever made (156538) when it comes in. I call BS myself, by the VIN. It was built on the 18th of October. I have 1238 other 454SS's built before his.

Well done, C10sport.

K

[c10sport]

Originally Posted by Hiluxxulih

Has there ever been a truck come off the line that was so messed up it had to be junked , because it was dropped or such a strange event happened that it was not repairable ? When I was in high school the auto shop was given a new Chevy truck that was said to have a bent frame , shipping damage maybe , sweet truck sad that it never had a chance , another thing I remember seeing years ago is a train derailed in the shipping yard and destroyed a bunch of GM trucks , the pictures were painful to see .

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Yep. D13's story is pretty representative.

I've seen bodies fall out of the clamshell at body drop; automated welding equipment in the body shop can wad up a pickup cab like aluminum foil.

K

On that topic, what happens if the damaged truck already has an assigned VIN? Does the VIN get reassigned to another truck built later or does the replacement truck get a new VIN?

On my 1991 454SS list, I have a 454SS with the VIN 1GCDC14N3MZ153896 which was built on 11/26/1990 but 1GCDC14N3MZ153919 which is the next 454SS on my list that says it was built on 10/29/1990 and then 1GCDC14NXMZ153930 which has a build date of 11/26/1990. I have one other truck that the records say that it was also built on 10/29/1990 while all the other trucks around it were built on 11/26/1990.

Perhaps the records were wrong? All of the 4.3, 5.0 and 5.7 trucks around those VINs were built on 11/26/1990.

[Bigstevex4]

No A/C P/S P/B 4 speed volt meter heavy rear springs but some stuff listed as standard. Severial times the tires that were tiny 195s

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by c10sport

On that topic, what happens if the damaged truck already has an assigned VIN? Does the VIN get reassigned to another truck built later or does the replacement truck get a new VIN?

On my 1991 454SS list, I have a 454SS with the VIN 1GCDC14N3MZ153896 which was built on 11/26/1990 but 1GCDC14N3MZ153919 which is the next 454SS on my list that says it was built on 10/29/1990 and then 1GCDC14NXMZ153930 which has a build date of 11/26/1990. I have one other truck that the records say that it was also built on 10/29/1990 while all the other trucks around it were built on 11/26/1990.

Perhaps the records were wrong? All of the 4.3, 5.0 and 5.7 trucks around those VINs were built on 11/26/1990.

New VIN. Every vehicle manufactured must have a unique VIN.

Sidebar: When I would travel for work I would occasionally meet up with my GM friends from other plants and the conversation would drift towards "misappropriation stories". Usually they are somewhat unimaginative: They told of workers that, when it was raining, would run through the gate and on to the parking lot with cardboard over their heads (presumably for protection from the rain) - only to find that there were pieces of window glass between the cardboard. Or the workers that would pass through security on the way in with an empty Thermos bottle - to return with the Thermos bottle full of paint. We had a guy that would cut holes in the fence and attempt to drive the new vehicle through the opening (that didn't last long).

I remember seeing a guy at a swap meet and thinking "man that guy looks familiar". After looking at his display full of chrome lug nuts, grease zerks and other shiny small parts it came to me: "oh yeah...he works at the Truck Plant".

My buddy Phil worked at the Ford Rouge Plant (the massive complex that Henry Ford himself built http://www.thehenryford.org/rouge/index.aspxand) and told of a General Superintendent that was stealing cars.

It was their regular practice (...ours, too...) to drive a production vehicle home for an overnight evaluation. These vehicles would be set aside and a sticker and note placed in the glovebox to explain the additional mileage to the new owner.

This guy had some buddies that were in on the deal with him. What he would do was drive a new 5.0L Mustang home and park it in the barn. He would pull the VIN off the car, to come back later and strip the car down and sell it for parts. His wife would drive him back to work the next morning, where he would authorize the build of the exact same car, right down to the same VIN number.

Everything was going along swimmingly until his teenaged daughter broke into the barn and decided to take one of these cars for a little spin. As fate would have it, she got pulled over and, as you might imagine, problems arose when she was out on the road in a new car with no VIN on it. The authorities started asking a few questions and VIOLA: another theft ring broken.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Bigstevex4

No A/C P/S P/B 4 speed volt meter heavy rear springs but some stuff listed as standard. Severial times the tires that were tiny 195s

Tires are released as:

Xxx = Front
Yxx = Rear
Zxx = Spare

That way the purchaser could specifiy different tires on the rear than on the front (like snow tires, for example).

K

[Bigstevex4]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Well done, C10sport.

K

Read an piece in HOT ROD Retired guy from GM He said he stopped telling people the truth about there rides. They would be like check out my SS Elcamino only made 100 like this. He said when he told them no they made thousands and its not an SS would just kill them. Oh Thanks for the Info why tires listed 3 times.

[c10sport]

Originally Posted by Bigstevex4

Read an piece in HOT ROD Retired guy from GM He said he stopped telling people the truth about there rides. They would be like check out my SS Elcamino only made 100 like this. He said when he told them no they made thousands and its not an SS would just kill them. Oh Thanks for the Info why tires listed 3 times.

That is likely what happened here. I actually found 7 454SS trucks way before his. The first 3 trucks off the line in Ft. Wayne were 454SS so 454SS number two was literally the second truck built and it sure as heck isn't this guy's truck.