Help - Found something in my oil pan

[68_Step]

Pulled the motor out of my C10 and found three pieces of metal that look like teeth in the oil pan. They are a little less than 1/2" long. The disributor gear looks fine. What do you think they are? What problem do I have?

[71swb4x4]

How long are they? They look like oil pump teeth to me.

[Willys47]

or part of the timing gear oil pump gear is flat on the edges so oil will not slip past

[68_Step]

Originally Posted by 71swb4x4

How long are they? They look like oil pump teeth to me.

Little less than 1/2" long

[Livrat]

They look like the teeth off of a timing gear.

http://www.dragtimes.com/images-clas...0954311235.jpg

[68_Step]

Originally Posted by Willys47

or part of the timing gear oil pump gear is flat on the edges so oil will not slip past

Is there access for the timing gear teeth to get into the oil pan except when taking it apart? I have not taken the timing chain cover off yet

[68_Step]

Originally Posted by Livrat

They look like the teeth off of a timing gear.

http://www.dragtimes.com/images-clas...0954311235.jpg

Darn - they do look like Timing gear teeth

[GASoline71]

Yep... if they break off the upper gear they will just fall right past the crank and into the pan. If they came off the lower gear they just fall into the pan.

Gary

[68_Step]

What would cause them to break off?

[GASoline71]

Loose chain on a very worn engine.

Gary

[jjzepplin]

Yupp timing gear teeth. Why did you pull the engine?

[68_Step]

Originally Posted by jjzepplin

Yupp timing gear teeth. Why did you pull the engine?

It running well, but leaking like crazy: oil pan and rear main. I was planning on replacing the lower gaskets and I had a previously used Edelbrock intake I was going to put on. Looks like a timing chain and gears are in its future.

[jjzepplin]

Yeah while its out you might as well do the rear main seal and possibly oil pump and timing chain. All things tough to get to when in the vehicle.

[68_Step]

Originally Posted by jjzepplin

Yeah while its out you might as well do the rear main seal and possibly oil pump and timing chain. All things tough to get to when in the vehicle.

I already have the rear main, but will pick up a timing gear / chain today along with an oil pump - thanks for mentioning that, had not thought of replacing it

[jjzepplin]

Look deep inside your oil pump pickup for the nylon pieces that might be there with chunks of timing gear. Never seen one come apart.

[snipescastle2]

I'm surprised no bent valves, or really crazy backfiring.....

[Norgermish]

A sloppy chain can cause broken teeth without it jumping time. Jumping on the throttle with a sloppy chain puts undue pressure on the gears and can easily break or crack a tooth. Like when the neighborhood dog ran out of chain when it tried to chase you. A cracked tooth will wear and eventually separate from the gear. Depending on when the tooth breaks off in the revolution it may or not jump time. If the tooth comes off before other teeth as it pulls the chain through, the broken teeth get lodged or bound up between the gear and chain and often break other teeth and jumps time. If the tooth breaks or comes off near the end of the travel of the chain on the gear it will fall away down into the pan...all is variable.

[WIDESIDE72]

Originally Posted by snipescastle2

I'm surprised no bent valves, or really crazy backfiring.....

SBC engines are not "interference" engines like a lot of other (mostly 4 cyl import) engines. Back in the day, my brothers and I had several 70's GM cars and trucks that we would buy out of peoples back yards, pastures and driveways that were abandoned due to the polyester timing gears stripping out. We would drop the pan, clean the plastic teeth out of the oil pans and pickup, swap an aftermarket cam/ lifter (comp 268H was a favorite) and timing set in, button it back up and drive, or flip for a few bucks. Even sold one Malibu back to the seller for $500 profit!

[NTIMID8R]

Originally Posted by 68_Step

It running well, but leaking like crazy: oil pan and rear main. I was planning on replacing the lower gaskets and I had a previously used Edelbrock intake I was going to put on. Looks like a timing chain and gears are in its future.

How long have you owned the truck. Could be part of a previous failure. A quick patch job and sell it kinda thing.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 68_Step

It running well, but leaking like crazy: oil pan and rear main. I was planning on replacing the lower gaskets and I had a previously used Edelbrock intake I was going to put on. Looks like a timing chain and gears are in its future.

Hold on now. With the pan off, you should be able to see the timing chain at least the lower gear. If it has a double roller on it, then those teeth did not come off of those gears for sure.

Even if it has a stock replacement, I'd be shocked if those teeth could break off like that and the timing set still functioning and not already replaced.

Rock the crank back and forth and see how much slop is in the chain. If you cannot confirm the chain and gears are OK to your satisfaction, then pull the cover.

Pan was probably leaking because the timing set was probably already replaced when the teeth broke off and the pan was not pulled. It's hard to do the timing set with the pan on and not end up with a leak.

Check crank journal where the rear main seal rides. If worn or pitted, you can get an off-set seal to ride on a previously un-used surface of the crank. Make sure it goes back together with a dust cover back there.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 68_Step

It running well, but leaking like crazy: oil pan and rear main. I was planning on replacing the lower gaskets and I had a previously used Edelbrock intake I was going to put on. Looks like a timing chain and gears are in its future.

Wow I'd be tempted to jazz it up a bit while it's out. Let me know if you want to juice it up, I tend to get carried away so it's your call.

[enaberif]

This is what your timing gear will probably look like at least your upper ... I show this picture to everyone to show WHY you need to replace these gears..

http://i.imgur.com/qF8Guro.jpg

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by enaberif

This is what your timing gear will probably look like at least your upper ... I show this picture to everyone to show WHY you need to replace these gears..

http://i.imgur.com/qF8Guro.jpg

Those broken gear teeth appear to be all metal no nylon, in 68_Step picture.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 68_Step

I already have the rear main, but will pick up a timing gear / chain today along with an oil pump - thanks for mentioning that, had not thought of replacing it

When doing rear main seal, oil pump needs to have the cover removed and some assembly lube (trans gel or vasoline) put on the gears to help it pull oil quickly upon initial start-up.

So go ahead and take the oil pump apart and see if the gears are damaged. Chances are they are not, from what I see. Those gear teeth do not look like part of a nylon timing gear. The pump gears may be scratched up, in that case install a new pump. If not, it's a waste of money and a PITA to install the new pickup tube and expect it to stay on and not fall off later but do take the time to clear the screen and blow it out good.

If you do put a new one on, get the pickup positioned where you want it and get it tack welded by a good welder so it don't get a hole burned through it and does not ever come loose or put it in with JB weld just don't use too much so it don't slop over into the system. Only put it on the tube itself, do not put it on the inside of the pump bore.

Make sure the pickup tube does not touch the bottom of the pan with NO gaskets installed yet. Best to have 1/4" clearance with no gaskets. (playdough or modeling clay). Or copy the one on it now for angle. Adjust it before the epoxy dries LOL.

You will need a new plastic guide sleeve for the oil pump shaft, new pump should come with one.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-224-43343

I'd get the fel-pro 1pc oil pan gasket. Measure your oil pan and note the side of the dipstick to ensure correct application.

[GRX]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Pan was probably leaking because the timing set was probably already replaced when the teeth broke off and the pan was not pulled. It's hard to do the timing set with the pan on and not end up with a leak.

^^ nailed it. Inspect the inner lower lip on your timing cover. People often bend that to heck when trying to force the cover on without dropping the pan.