When is an engine too far gone?

[mikedag]

Hey guys,

I have been looking for period correct motor for my 67 that currently has a 78 350 in it. I found a local lead for a 1964 283 I can have for free. The thing is that it has been sitting in the grass for 20+ years uncovered. It is clearly seized, and the rust has gone through the oil pan. I am expecting a complete rebuild with all new components and needing to have it machined. I know you can buy a crate motor cheaper that it would cost to rebuild but I am trying to get the 283 and 3 ott back in the truck.

This would be my first rebuild and I believe a good learning experience. I am not expecting to make a hot rod, just a reliable DD.

What do you guys thinks.....to far gone?

[57taskforce]

It's kinda hard to tell for sure with out pics of what the internals look like but I'd say the odds probably arnt in your favor.

[dubds10]

Keep looking. There are lots of SBC out there for sale in that year range. Join FB auto groups in your area, craigslist, kijiji etc. SBC are really a dime a dozen.

[Saclandman]

I found my 283 on Craigslist. The guy had it in his little hotrod, went and got him a crate 350 instead. They're out there, just got to go looking for them.

[leftybass209]

Your preferences are your own for wanting a 283, but why do you need to have a 283? The 350 you have can be dressed up to look period perfect, biggest difference being the oil fill in the manifold and solid valve covers with no holes. 283s are pulled all the time for engine swaps and can nearly be had for a literal song and dance these days. I don't think you'd have much trouble finding one in considerably better condition.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

Your preferences are your own for wanting a 283, but why do you need to have a 283? The 350 you have can be dressed up to look period perfect, biggest difference being the oil fill in the manifold and solid valve covers with no holes. 283s are pulled all the time for engine swaps and can nearly be had for a literal song and dance these days. I don't think you'd have much trouble finding one in considerably better condition.

You make a good point.

[mikedag]

You all have great point. I am looking for something specifically older than 74 too. Her in Ontario anything after that you have to follow all the emission standards for the year of the motor. That rules out a crate and the 350 I currently have. We don't need our vehicles emission tested but if the ministry of environment catches you....you're off the road till its up to par. I will broaden my horizon and see what else turns up

[mechanicalman]

I know very, very little or nothing on Canadian law. That being said.....

I think you should call the ministry of environment and get a clarification on the brand new crate engines that have never been installed in any vehicle and are actually designed to go into older vehicles as well as ones that fall under the emissions umbrella, so being a "replacement engine" I would think the year model of you vehicle should supersede in this case. It would be a shame for you to pass up on the dollar for dollar value, and dependability of the brand new crate engine. Not sure a warranty will apply to an older vehicle, I'd check with local suppliers of the GM new engines.

Obviously your current engine and other rebuilt crate engines would be dateable due to the engine stamping. I do not believe the date the new crate engine was built would be deemed the same standard as an engine that was intended to be and was actually installed in a new vehicle at the factory.

Give em' a call it can't hurt.

[mechanicalman]

Or get a pre-74 350 4 bolt main and rebuild it, sky's the limit and many available. (internally balanced, current flywheel will fit).

Torque is a 3oot's clutches' best friend so stoking the 350 or getting a SB400 would be great just keep in mind the application specific flywheels the externally balanced engines have to have and the price of them.

[cooperhw]

Too bad you are so dang far north of Arizona.
I have a running 283 in a 66 chassis I pulled the sheet metal off of up at my mountain cabin property. The frame took a hard hit and bent the front horns. But the motor and 4 speed and still complete and intact. I put a barrel over it to keep and cruddies out, but really have no interest in doing anything with it.
I've got a 327 in my 68 right now that runs but don't know too much about it past that. Sorting it out to see if it will end up staying or being replaced.
Pretty common down here in the hot Arizona area.

[GRX]

20 years outside & uncovered in the elements. It has probably filled with water and frozen solid a thousand times. Rust and cracks. This conversation has me wondering how they know your engine is pre-1974. Do they look at the casting numbers?

[Davidf]

I have the same dilemma in reverse. Currently have a 230HP 283 in my '71 that should have a 350 in it. But, that darn 283 runs strong with just a hint of oil burn. Going to have to keep it in there until it runs its course. If you were closer and the 350 was '71 or less I would trade you. But a '78 350 is probably a low HP dog.

[Fitz]

when it's a 305?

[mikedag]

[QUOTE=GRX;7171959]20 years outside & uncovered in the elements. It has probably filled with water and frozen solid a thousand times. Rust and cracks. This conversation has me wondering how they know your engine is pre-1974. Do they look at the casting numbers?[/QUOTE


That's right they look at the casting numbers on the block. If you scratch them off the block is then assumed new and you have to follow the standard for before e test is required.

[RichardJ]

A 327 I can see. It would be correct for the year if you truly feel it's that important. if I ever said out loud that I wanted a column shift on purpose, I would hope a friend would shoot me.

[mikedag]

Originally Posted by RichardJ

A 327 I can see. It would be correct for the year if you truly feel it's that important. if I ever said out loud that I wanted a column shift on purpose, I would hope a friend would shoot me.

That's the reason I want it, conversation maker. People have already forgotten about them. Another decade and I imagine they will be obsolete....plus a good theft deterrent haha, won't be able to drive away

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by mikedag

That's the reason I want it, conversation maker. People have already forgotten about them. Another decade and I imagine they will be obsolete....plus a good theft deterrent haha, won't be able to drive away

One of the other guys put in a car style 4 speed and used the column shifter for the 4 forward gears, and in the process of putting in an electric actuator for reverse. Not sure if he was going to use a button on the lever or what but I like it.

[special-K]

You just described a too far gone motor...unfortunately. The 283 was a great motor. I love how they run. They belong in a '67. '67 was the only year of these trucks that had them...last year motor. I totally understand why you want one, even though you could make a 350 look like one. I had a 350 to put in my '67 project till I found a 327. It was a '68 large journal with bossed heads for alternator mount. I swapped my machinist for a set of pre-68 heads w/o the bosses because I want it to 'look' like a '67 327. Didn't hurt that they were 64cc either, since I was going for 325-350 hp.

[HeavyD]

Just buy a crate and swap the 283 accessories on it to look stock. As long as its carbed, orange, and has stock filler and air cleaner and rams horn manifolds, it wont generate any suspicion. Weird about this issue, g/f dad has a 70s 455 in a 66 gto and has never has an issue ever..and it doesnt even look close to stock. He lives in Port Colborne

[special-K]

I guess some people just don't get the appeal of this venerable engine. They can last for longer, get better fuel consumption, and can be built to run like a raped ape. Back in the early-80s my buddy had a '77 K30 4spd with a badass 283. That's right, big tires, big bad black 1t that could have had any engine he wanted and he went with a 283. That thing could hill climb and leave others in his dust. I'll never forget the sound of that thing workin'. One night he was climbing this hill that my other buddy's 400 powered '79 F350 couldn't do when he torqued it so hard the z-bar fell out.
Figure, same engine design with smaller bore means more meat on the block and one durable motor

[FrankenCub]

When is an engine too far gone?

When you can fit the internal contents loosely in a flat rate box
Done that before when I desperately wanted to put a whoopin on a Vette with my Sunbird lol

[brad_man_72]

Is this a modern rebuilt 350 or the vintage 283 the boat came with? If you can't tell neither will I.

[mikeshome]

You should be able to find something in the year range your looking for.i am only about 20 minutes east of you.Is your truck on the road or are you still in the build stage?

[mikedag]

Originally Posted by mikeshome

You should be able to find something in the year range your looking for.i am only about 20 minutes east of you.Is your truck on the road or are you still in the build stage?

No she's on the road, a slow work in progress

[Coley]

Contact this guy...he will probably be able to quickly help you out with finding a reasonable 283.
Bill P. at 905.725.3460 (c/o Bills truck shop- Courtice-Oshawa)
Very good guy to deal with and you probably won't regret the results.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Coley