My Bargain $50 Heads!

[Coley]

I was on a local buy/sell website this past week and came across these sbc heads for $50 and quickly grabbed them.
They came off a crate engine (changed out for hp aluminum jobs) and they are as clean as a whistle with very low miles on them. I gave them a very quick shot of chevy orange to bring them more in line with the period motors.
They are 76cc chambered/1.94" jobs....nothing special or high performance but in really great, clean condition and they have the front mount taps which are handy on the truck motors.
The reasoning for the 'grab' was I have (2) 350 project motors around here that in all likelihood might need a set of heads. One of the motors is a '72, 1/2ton truck 350 and the other is a mid 70's L82 w/ 'powerpack' heads on them.
Either way I figured for $50 for the set....that's almost worth the fifty bucks in iron...lol.
All Good
Coley

[GRX]

$50 is a fair price. Have to say though. I usually avoid Mexican castings like the plague. And have those push rod guide holes been drilled out?

[mechanicalman]

They will work better with flat top pistons, proper quench, up to about 8.7-8.8 CR. Keep the cam reasonable and they work OK.

Good eye, GRX, but I'm wondering if the newer crate engines are getting the stamped self guiding rockers yet?

My 88 Formula 350 came from the factory with the self guided rockers despite it still having the pushrod guides in the heads, and I have seen some early 90's Buick stuff (chevy 305/350) that had the same thing.

Did you get the rockers with the heads Coley?

[hamjet]

Thats a darn good price in my book, good find!

[Lokin4AReason]

nice snag ... I would say so myself

[Coley]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

They will work better with flat top pistons, proper quench, up to about 8.7-8.8 CR. Keep the cam reasonable and they work OK.

Good eye, GRX, but I'm wondering if the newer crate engines are getting the stamped self guiding rockers yet?

My 88 Formula 350 came from the factory with the self guided rockers despite it still having the pushrod guides in the heads, and I have seen some early 90's Buick stuff (chevy 305/350) that had the same thing.

Did you get the rockers with the heads Coley?

No rockers...just as they show here.
I know they are nothing unique or high performance....certainly in comparison to the world of Vortec and newer aluminum designs.
That said, it seems that this type of general (Mexico) type head is what is coming on most of those popular jegs/summit crate engines (260hp/290hp) and most of these engine buyers seem to be fairly happy with overall results. I figure they can't be that bad for a quick bolt on or substitute on one of those 350's used for general everyday use.
Now...having said that.....I wonder if there is anything that could be 'easily' done to them to make them flow a little better? Maybe port match the intake gasket? any ideas?....nothing too extreme and mostly an endeavor rooted in curiousity and minor work. Something simple.
All Good
Coley

[GASoline71]

Good price for heads for a stock rebuild. Not to throw doo-doo in this, but anything "performance" related done to those heads will be a waste of time. Port matching or even cleaning up the runners won't do anything.

However. Since you got a smoking good deal on them, you could surely take a Dremel or peanut grinder to them and practice. If you make a mistake and mess them up, you're only out $50 bucks! It's better than ruining a $600 to $1,000 dollar set of heads!

Gary

[enaberif]

Thick casting heads too.. Shouldn't be too prone to cracking either.

[GRX]

Yep. Early style. Only one dipstick dimple. Reason I do not like most Mexican heads is because some were the worst quality control. Excessive casting shift resulting in misshapen & uneven ports. Have seen a couple with mold flash which looked like a blade of iron running the length of the ports.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Coley

No rockers...just as they show here.
I know they are nothing unique or high performance....certainly in comparison to the world of Vortec and newer aluminum designs.
That said, it seems that this type of general (Mexico) type head is what is coming on most of those popular jegs/summit crate engines (260hp/290hp) and most of these engine buyers seem to be fairly happy with overall results. I figure they can't be that bad for a quick bolt on or substitute on one of those 350's used for general everyday use.
Now...having said that.....I wonder if there is anything that could be 'easily' done to them to make them flow a little better? Maybe port match the intake gasket? any ideas?....nothing too extreme and mostly an endeavor rooted in curiousity and minor work. Something simple.
All Good
Coley

If someone went to the expense of putting on aluminum heads, they probably replaced the stock rockers; they may have the rockers sitting in the corner and possibly even give them to you. Otherwise to use those heads you will need self-guiding rockers. Or, a set of rockers off a 96 and newer Vortec 350 will work. Scout the u-pull-it lots of 86-95 engines even have them even despite some of them having rocker guides still in the heads.

Even the head bolts off that engine are much better than the head bolts off older engines.

Before you sink money into the heads for valve grinding and milling, evaluate the "core shift" and see if you have good candidates. You are likely OK, but to be sure check them out.

Do as these guys did in this article and you will see improvements on flow for these heads, especially the valve angles so you will have to take them to the shop for that and the milling (recommended) and use steel shim gaskets on those heads for more compression and proper quench. You can play "pocket port" yourself with an in-expensive kit from Summit or Jeg's.
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/463...gine-build-ii/

[RichardJ]

Low miles according to the seller?

I couldn't be comfortable until I pulled some of the springs and checked guide wear with an indicator.

[Coley]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Otherwise to use those heads you will need self-guiding rockers. Or, a set of rockers off a 96 and newer Vortec 350 will work. Scout the u-pull-it lots of 86-95 engines even have them even despite some of them having rocker guides still in the heads.

Even the head bolts off that engine are much better than the head bolts off older engines.

Before you sink money into the heads for valve grinding and milling, evaluate the "core shift" and see if you have good candidates. You are likely OK, but to be sure check them out.

Interesting about the self-aligning rockers. So, stock-stamped GM rockers will not work with these heads? How is that determined? (again...interesting point).
On the current heads on my truck (and the spare '72 heads I have in the basement) the stamped stock rockers have a machined separate 'pivot washer' in them that resides between the rocker and the 3/8" rocker arm bolt.
Are these self-aligning or what is the difference in these vs. others?...if any?

As for sinking money into these heads....no worries....my expectations from all of this are absolutely average at best. These are high production, low power, super average, low cost heads used on thousands of crate engines...nothing more.
The root of the posting here is the whole idea of picking up a set of useable SBC 1.94" 'rainy day' heads for $50...and remember...that's $40 U.S.D...lol!
The only thing I might do a rainy Saturday morning is gasket match them...that's probably about it.
All Good
Coley

[GRX]

$50 Canadian. Even better!

Non aligning rockers would walk around and cause you to drop a valve. They are alright for stock or mild performance applications. They can still walk if you get float in high lift high rpm situations. My choice for a performance build would be guide plates for sure.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Coley

Interesting about the self-aligning rockers. So, stock-stamped GM rockers will not work with these heads? How is that determined? (again...interesting point).
On the current heads on my truck (and the spare '72 heads I have in the basement) the stamped stock rockers have a machined separate 'pivot washer' in them that resides between the rocker and the 3/8" rocker arm bolt.
Are these self-aligning or what is the difference in these vs. others?...if any?

The only thing I might do a rainy Saturday morning is gasket match them...that's probably about it.
All Good
Coley

Read the article on pocket porting, it's easy and much more productive than gasket matching.

And on gasket matching, you only need to do half of it. For instance, leave the intake manifold alone and simply enlarge the intake port on the head larger than the intake manifold port. Removes the restrictions, plus the resulting ledge fights reversion.

Same on the exhaust follow the direction of flow, leave the head port smaller than the header or ex manifold.

In other words, whatever port is leading the way needs to be slightly smaller or no larger than the port it goes into, and that is always true on the exhaust and always true on the intake unless you are running a supercharger of any kind. So, always enlarge the second port in the direction of flow if possible without damaging the equipment.

As GRX pointed out, your heads do not have pushrod guides just round holes where the pushrods go through the heads. Look at your 72 rockers they are flat where they rub the valve stems and the 72 heads have rectangular shaped guides in the heads to guide the pushrods unlike the heads you just obtained. You have to have one or the other if not the rockers will slip off the valves.

Look at the picture I posted and see the dimples on the rockers on each side of the valve stems, that's the only thing in this case keeping the rocker arms from slipping off the side of the valve stems. Here is another picture:

[leftybass209]

I'm certainly happy with my crate heads. I had them planed and had the valves back cut 30 degrees and hardened the seats for our lovely modern gas. I followed a magazine guide that flogged the crate for all its worth. For people dog on these heads, or anything on these trucks in general, I usually find something on their vehicles that's less than favorable and point it out. That usually takes care of the "I know what's best for your truck" syndrome.

[Coley]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

As GRX pointed out, your heads do not have pushrod guides just round holes where the pushrods go through the heads. Look at your 72 rockers they are flat where they rub the valve stems and the 72 heads have rectangular shaped guides in the heads to guide the pushrods unlike the heads you just obtained. You have to have one or the other if not the rockers will slip off the valves.

Look at the picture I posted and see the dimples on the rockers on each side of the valve stems, that's the only thing in this case keeping the rocker arms from slipping off the side of the valve stems. Here is another picture:

Great info guys.....I checked the rockers on the spare heads I have in the basement and they do NOT have that stamped recess....interesting.
I will do some more checking on this prior to any installation to ensure that there is no 'slip off'.
(I might also see what style is on the truck now with the older heads?)

All Good
Coley

[Coley]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

I'm certainly happy with my crate heads. I had them planed and had the valves back cut 30 degrees and hardened the seats for our lovely modern gas. I followed a magazine guide that flogged the crate for all its worth. For people dog on these heads, or anything on these trucks in general, I usually find something on their vehicles that's less than favorable and point it out. That usually takes care of the "I know what's best for your truck" syndrome.

Yeah, I know what you mean....my buddies and me always call those guys who poop on everything 'the half empty gang'....lol.
Not too many on this website....a few, but not too many.
Its great when people weigh in with stuff that helps you out rather than shuts you down and again....that is not most of my experience here and most of the guys have always been very helpful (including Mechanicalman, Grx, to name a few)
You really open up a world of opinion tho' when you post stuff regarding the old school sbc parts....like heads or really anything in comparison to the new LS based technology.
I'm keeping this light and breezy tho'...these heads cost less than an inexpensive dinner and if they make 70hp less hp than the $1200 aluminum heads....I think I can live through that without serious blood loss or infection or even extended sadness....lol. Particularly given the fact that 90% of the time these trucks, including the high performance ones, are probably only using 80-100hp for most of their 'day cycle' events. Always good to keep in mind when prioritizing the start and finish points of performance vs. transportation needs.
Don't get me wrong, I like the performance stuff....but I'm also a die hard realist as to the way I drive and where I drive and I'm just not putting my foot into it enough to warrant an extra $5000 worth of motor I guess.
All Good!!
Coley