LOST: balancer or pulley

[rico12410]

Hi guys,

I don't know how, but my 1971 Chevy C30 6-cylinder's pulley (on the balancer?) got lost on the way home last week. So the engine got so hot that blowed the radiator hose off.

Does anyone knows where to get the pulley? the balancer is still on the engine block.

Please help.

Thank you

[Malamute]

Mine came loose a while back but never came off completely thankfully. I'm pretty sure I got mine through rock auto. It was also for a 250 6cyl.

[Malamute]

Also, you will need to replace the entire harmonic balancer. I had to drill and tap a hole in the crank shaft and use the removal tool to get mine off. It really helped with the install of the new one as well. I'm going to guess yours is a press fit HB as mine was, meaning there is no bolt holding it on.

[rico12410]

Thank you very much for your info

Wow, i should replace the whole thing? Isn't there a simpler way to do it?

Just crossed my mind, if i install a compressor for an air conditioner to the motor, should/would i change the pulley/ballancer again?

Thx

Originally Posted by Malamute

Also, you will need to replace the entire harmonic balancer. I had to drill and tap a hole in the crank shaft and use the removal tool to get mine off. It really helped with the install of the new one as well. I'm going to guess yours is a press fit HB as mine was, meaning there is no bolt holding it on.

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[WIDESIDE72]

As far as "finding" the pulley, i assume you retraced your path to see if it was along the road somewhere (?)

['68OrangeSunshine]

L6s usually had the pulley grooves in the harmonic balancer as a single unit, not a bolt-on sheave like the V8s. You just said '6-cylinder' but do you know your engine's displacement?
292s had a 3-groove pulley. [Best for HD operations, even if on a 250.] You can have a bigger HB on an L6, but never a smaller one. A 230/250 Balancer will fit on a 292 but not absorb enough engine vibrations to work right.
The 3-Groove HB for the 292 L6 is GM p/n: 10141202.

Wow! Jakarta? As in Indonesia? That's wa-a-ay out on the edge of the logistics chain, isn't it? Could be why someone [PO?] cobbled together whatever would work from what ever was at hand.

A/C is do-able on the L6, the 'sheaves' or pulley grooves are not the problem -- finding engine brackets for Power Steering, and Air Conditioning has become difficult. 292s much more so than the 250s.

[rico12410]

Thank youuu Malamute WIDESIDE72 '68OrangeSunshine,

WIDESIDE72 I retraced the way it got lost, but no luck
so I need a way to replace the missing thing.

yes, '68OrangeSunshine, I am located almost down-under

I think the engine is the 250.

I was thinking, if I could change the harmonic ballancer with a 'modified' pulley so it will be ready when i want to put the AC and/or power-steering?

hope to hear some more suggestions.. I hope I don't need to order the HB from far.. thank you

[fstfwrd]

There were several balancers used on the Chevy 6 engines. Depending on weather it was light duty, medium duty truck, etc.

I have sent damaged dampers to this guy here http://www.damperdoctor.com/ - Service was great, and the turnaround time was amazing! Got a customers farm truck back on the road in no time!!!

[RichardJ]

The part of the harmonic balancer that you lost is the outer ring that is held on with a rubber (elastomer?) band.
Finding the outer ring won't do you any good unless you plan on sending it out to a rebuilder as has been mentioned.

Using a 3-groove pulley is one idea, but they retail at about $350. I thing the 3-groove were used on 292's in much larger trucks that had an air compressor for air brakes and double water pump belts for redundancy.

I lost a two groove off my 292, many, many years ago at speed as you did. Years later, another one simply dropped to the ground when I started the engine.

After loosing two balancers and lucky enough to not loose the radiator, I decided on some insurance. At the time I had been planning on AC and collected some parts, including an assortment of pulleys.
By bolting a pulley to the hub in front of the balancer, it traps the balancer ring from ever flying off.

Corvair uses a balancer that is very similar to the inline six with the V-belt groove on the outer ring. SBC have all the pulleys bolted in front to the hub. SBC with Serpentine belts have bolt on pulleys, but the LSX engines have serpentine grooves cut into the balancer.

Corvair balancers have something I have not seen on the inline six balancers or any other balancer for that matter. They have a line cut into the hub and into the outer ring. If the lines no longer line up, the balancer ring has come loose and started to slip.

You can paint a line in the front of any balancer. If you add a pulley to the front and can't see the witness marks, just paint a line from the timing mark out onto the extra pulley.

In the photo, the center balancer looks very much like the inline six but is a Corvair. It was chucking rubber bits and easily pushed apart. The one next to it is a rebuilt Corvair unit that appears to have a silicone material. A wrecking yard prize.
The one on the left came off my Vette last month. It hadn't started slipping yet. but was chucking a lot of hard rubber pieces.

Old balancers, especially the out rings can be useful on a hydraulic press so I hang onto some of them.

[rico12410]

Thank you fstfwrd

Thank you RichardJ

Yes, RichardJ, I think I lost the outer ring that is held on with a rubber elastomer band.
I think I want to follow your idea of bolting a pulley to the hub in front of the balancer, and paint a line from the timing mark out onto the extra pulley.

Thank you very much for your attention, information, and suggestions.
They are greatly appreciated.

[fstfwrd]

I've personally dealt with www.damperdoctors.com on multiple occasions. Very nice folks to chat with, and pricing is incredibly reasonable.

['68OrangeSunshine]

Rico, you still need a good harmonic balancer. It might run for a while without one, but not for very long.

[rico12410]

Oo OK 68OrangeSunshine..
thank you for your suggestion.

so, better not bolt on a (new) pulley to the three bolt which are on the face of the 'ballancer' which left behind by the outer ring-grove? yes?

thx

Originally Posted by '68OrangeSunshine

Rico, you still need a good harmonic balancer. It might run for a while without one, but not for very long.

[rico12410]

thx fastfrwd..
but the link doesn't work anymore?

Originally Posted by fstfwrd

I've personally dealt with www.damperdoctors.com on multiple occasions. Very nice folks to chat with, and pricing is incredibly reasonable.

[fstfwrd]

Sorry, try this instead http://www.damperdoctor.com/

[rico12410]

thank you

Originally Posted by fstfwrd

Sorry, try this instead http://www.damperdoctor.com/

[RichardJ]

>>so, better not bolt on a (new) pulley to the three bolt which are on the face of the 'ballancer' which left behind by the outer ring-grove? yes?<<

You are making me wonder if you still don't understand what the balancer should look like. The existing belts and pulleys need to line up with the "V" grooves that were on the old dampener.

Did your old balancer have one or two grooves? If it has PW steering, it probably has two grooves. How many "V" grooves on the water pump pulley and what accessories does it line up with??

Some inline balancers with two grooves have the grooves right next to each other. Some of the two groove balancers have a separation of almost 1/2" between the grooves.

Some 250 engines have the timing tab on the driver side of the water pump, but some have tab on the Pass side of the engine.

Summit racing has a couple of 250 balancers with pictures. Dorman 594-014 with close grooves and Dorman 594-015 with spread grooves. I couldn't determine which timing tab they are for.

Maybe this picture will help you. Maybe not.
The balancer has two, close grooves that match the two-groove alternator pulley. The water pump pulley has two grooves, but only one groove lines up with the balancer. The outer pump groove lines up with the AC, which is what that Black, outer crank pulley that I added in front is for.
Dozens of original belt/pulley setups. You'll have to take your que from what you have in front of you.

[fstfwrd]

The last balancer I sent to Damper Doctor as a core was for an inline Chevy (292 if I remember correctly), in which the truck probably saw a thousand miles or less a year. It was a 2-groove pulley and had totally mangled itself.

If I dig around my photobucket account, I can probably find photos of the bruised balancer next to the Damper Doctor balancer.

I'm in no way affiliated with them, but I have placed many orders with them and have been satisfied every time. They seem very knowledgeable on the phone, and we had no issues looking up the correct pulley I needed.

Also to note from experience, it seems that the medium duty trucks (C40, C50, C60, etc) use accessory pulleys that are "slightly" different than their light duty truck counterparts. Sticking a pulley on may work fine, but the big issue is pulley and belt alignment.

As Richard J stated, Dorman Products manufactures several not-so-application-specific vbelt style pullies for automotive use. Their e-catalog for looking up parts is a joke, but if you can get your hands on a Dorman product guide at a parts store (like O'reillys for example), sizes are listed along with the part numbers.

GM's 6.5L V8 turbodiesel will tear the rubber center hub of the balancer out, the GM/Buick 3.8 3800 V6 is another one that is notorious for destroying balancers. And its not uncommon for the balancer to move some over time and throw the timing off when you check and/or set it with a light.

Good luck with it. I'm subscribing to this thread. Should be interesting to see how it turns out. I manage a mom and pop auto parts store. Dealt with this several times with all these old trucks that are still being used (tarp strap holding the door closed and all). If you want, I think I can photocopy some pages out of the Dorman book if needed.

And honestly, Dorman has a bit of a quality control issue. Sometimes the product is great, and the next part through the door (plastic intake manifolds, and cast iron exhaust manifolds especially) are total junk and will fight you tooth and nail or be all-together wrong. If you need the truck going and useable, go with Damper Doctor for a balancer. The best part is their pricing is reasonable (and sometimes cheaper too) than Dorman.

Just my $.02 worth

Brendan

['68OrangeSunshine]

I guess maybe the C/30 might have additional accessory sheaves, I'm not familiar with the bigger trucks, but the issue is running the engine without a Harmonic Balancer first. Without one you can do internal damage to the rotating assembly-- bent crank snout, damaged rings and pistons, more bad stuff than I can recall right now.
Get a new HB [or good-rebuilt] on the crank snout. Then if your fanbelts do not line up, Add whatever pulleys you need for your application, even P/S and AC. But without a proper HB your 250 will self-destruct.
When I rebuilt my 292 in 2005, my machinist got an HB he said was from Australia. Might be closer to your location.

[RichardJ]

I wasn't promoting Dorman or Summit. I mentioned looking at Summit because they had photos of both styles of the two-groove pulleys.
Did Dorman buy Help or did Help buy Dorman? Maybe that's the reason for quality problems.
He doesn't have a core if he goes with Damper Doctor.
The problem with this type of damper is that all the accessories, water pump, fan, PW steering pump, alternator and maybe A.I.R. pump, must overcome inertia and give a big tug on the outer ring every time the engine is started. Dampers used on engines like a SBC, have all the accessories driven by pulleys bolted to the damper hub. Only the outer ring has to overcome the initial inertia jolt and don't even have to deal with the constant drag while running.

['68OrangeSunshine]

I'm not familiar with the Export C/30 with L6 250 for '68. The OP is in Indonesia. I just read in the 'pedia that they drive on the Left there. This C/30 may have been built in Australia, even Canada. Don't know. Just guessing. He may have had a set-up like the V8 with external pulleys bolted to the inner core of the HB. That seems to have been what was on there before his HB pulled apart.

[fstfwrd]

Originally Posted by RichardJ

I wasn't promoting Dorman or Summit. I mentioned looking at Summit because they had photos of both styles of the two-groove pulleys.
Did Dorman buy Help or did Help buy Dorman? Maybe that's the reason for quality problems.
He doesn't have a core if he goes with Damper Doctor.
The problem with this type of damper is that all the accessories, water pump, fan, PW steering pump, alternator and maybe A.I.R. pump, must overcome inertia and give a big tug on the outer ring every time the engine is started. Dampers used on engines like a SBC, have all the accessories driven by pulleys bolted to the damper hub. Only the outer ring has to overcome the initial inertia jolt and don't even have to deal with the constant drag while running.

Looking at their website, the core charge is anywhere between $20 and $80. If he needs the truck right away, I don't think $80 is going to be an issue.

And Dorman purchased Help! products. It's now considered their "value" line. IMHO, it's all junk. Their Buick 3800 and Ford mod motor intake manifolds are probably their best product.

Brendan

[rico12410]

Thank you guys for all the info and education..

I have contacted Damper Doctor to send me quotation for a new Harmonic Balancers.

From the old pictures, which I took several months ago, while the engine's rebuilt, it show that it has two groves on the balancers.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/rico12410/3K9156

Skipping Dorma and Summit, I'm open for any suggestion on trusted HB suppliers.

Thank you

[fstfwrd]

ATP builds and sells balancers as well. I don't have a catalog at hand, but if I find an internet link I will post it. One thing about going ATP, you can order it right from your O'reillys or parts store of choice, usually in a day or two.

[rico12410]

thank you Sir..

Originally Posted by fstfwrd

ATP builds and sells balancers as well. I don't have a catalog at hand, but if I find an internet link I will post it. One thing about going ATP, you can order it right from your O'reillys or parts store of choice, usually in a day or two.