Help-4L80e not shifting

[engairuph]

Got a 4L80e trans 4x4 and the codes that came up was 0650 and 0654. The problem is when put in to gear slow to go in gear and will not shift. Fluid level is full and trans was rebuilt before installing. Have noticed once the truck does get warmed up that it take longer to go in gear and will have to rev up to get in gear.

[BR3W CITY]

Thats a powertrain control MIL and a speed input control MIL.

Doublecheck the wiring connections between the ECM and the trans, look for pinched wires or missing grounds. Verify that there isn't fluid leaking through the internal-to-external wiring harness on the side of the trans (it can leak into the weatherpak and cause false signal grounding internally). A ton of the ECM external functions are switched on the ground side, so a missing/bad ground can cause faults in multiple areas at the same time.

I'd start there, and also verify that you have your brake/tcc switch hooked up.

[engairuph]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

Thats a powertrain control MIL and a speed input control MIL.

Doublecheck the wiring connections between the ECM and the trans, look for pinched wires or missing grounds. Verify that there isn't fluid leaking through the internal-to-external wiring harness on the side of the trans (it can leak into the weatherpak and cause false signal grounding internally). A ton of the ECM external functions are switched on the ground side, so a missing/bad ground can cause faults in multiple areas at the same time.

I'd start there, and also verify that you have your brake/tcc switch hooked up.

Have checked al the wiring and fluid leaks. Checked all the grounds and the TCC/brake switch is connected and power. Also been talking with BPauto wiring and all is good so far. Pan off and what to start with?

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by engairuph

Pan off and what to start with?

I'd go laptop-open before I went pan off. You can manually manipulate the solenoids and check for fail conditions within the tuning suites. Troubleshooting there will give you a better idea of what to dive into. Unfortunately with trans failures, unless its an obvious fluid blockage or mechanical failure, you won't have the easiest time "Seeing" the problem.

Who did the tuning, and/or do you have EFI/HPT to troubleshoot with?

Just for funzies; disconnect the battery, disconnect the ecu, have a beer, then reconnect them both. On a cold/blind start, do these codes pop up immediately, or do you have to be driving/shifting to cause the MIL's to pop up?

[clinebarger]

Are you getting ISS & VSS signals to your PCM?

Where are you getting the VSS signal at? The Transfer Case?

As for slow engagement, Does the unit have a warranty?

[engairuph]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

I'd go laptop-open before I went pan off. You can manually manipulate the solenoids and check for fail conditions within the tuning suites. Troubleshooting there will give you a better idea of what to dive into. Unfortunately with trans failures, unless its an obvious fluid blockage or mechanical failure, you won't have the easiest time "Seeing" the problem.

Who did the tuning, and/or do you have EFI/HPT to troubleshoot with?

Just for funzies; disconnect the battery, disconnect the ecu, have a beer, then reconnect them both. On a cold/blind start, do these codes pop up immediately, or do you have to be driving/shifting to cause the MIL's to pop up?

Did the full disconnect for a couple of hours while do some other electrical and still the same codes popped right up. One of the speed sensors is not working now so have one coming tomorrow. On the EFI I have a bad O2 sensor which both are new. The trans have warranty both the guys about 4 hours away and seems to point the pump or seal at the pump right at this moment. Haven't pulled the pan yet.

[engairuph]

Originally Posted by clinebarger

Are you getting ISS & VSS signals to you PCM?

Where are you getting the VSS signal at? The Transfer Case?

As for slow engagement, Does the unit have a warranty?

Has warranty so what are you thinking? I was told to try the pressure solenoid but my other trans guy thinks it something with the pump.

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by engairuph

Did the full disconnect for a couple of hours while do some other electrical and still the same codes popped right up. One of the speed sensors is not working now so have one coming tomorrow.

Well at least that tells us that the failure is pervasive, and occurs no matter what. It likely rules out a situation like a destroyed convertor, where you might get codes from excessive slip or limp moding of the trans, but only after a condition has been met).

When you put the new speed sensor in, you might need to reset/clear the code or do a few on/off cycles to get everything to talk correctly.

As for the 02 sensors you mentioned, if they were turned off in EFI live but the MIL wasn't turned off, then you can be getting a false MIL (but it wouldn't be anything related to the trans problem, just another thing I noticed)

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by engairuph

Has warranty so what are you thinking? I was told to try the pressure solenoid but my other trans guy thinks it something with the pump.

As a Mechanic & Trans builder, I tell my customers if their happy...Tell your friends, If your not, Tell me!....I will correct the issue or refund your money.

If the builder did make an error...Give him the chance to fix it.

You did not answer the VSS question.

[engairuph]

Originally Posted by clinebarger

As a Mechanic & Trans builder, I tell my customers if their happy...Tell your friends, If your not, Tell me!....I will correct the issue or refund your money.

If the builder did make an error...Give him the chance to fix it.

You did not answer the VSS question.

I'm upholster in aircraft and street rods so I always take care of my customer since I work off of reputation and ethics. I'm giving the builder a chance but when he does not return calls then I must go on and deal with him later. And on the VSS just went through to make sure all wiring was correct in location and has power to print. Laptop today to see if I can make everything work. Thanks for the help guys, haven't wrenched in a long time till I started this project and trans I'm blind with very knowledge of so learning them now.

[68c10airstream]

You stated "the codes popped right up" If this is the case you have circuit related issues! The controller looks at circuit integrity on key up, and the condition isn't correct right then, before you road test it. I will use this as an example; say a controller turns on a light and turns it off by applying a ground to the circuit. 12 volts positive comes from a fuse, through the bulb filament and then over to the controller. The controller MUST SEE 12 volts on the circuit before it will take it to ground. Fuse blown, bulb filament broken, etc, and 12 volts (+) isn't available at the controller, hence a trouble code related to the light bulb would come up right away. Maybe that will help, but I would dig into the trouble codes first and know it forward and backward, and check it live by probing with a very good digital volt ohm meter. Good luck, Brian F.

[engairuph]

Checked wires, connections, ohmed wires and soliedds and vSS and everything to deal with trans. Pulled pan and found a loose valve body. So started checking all the solenoids and tracing wires to check for anything. Put everything out of my other trans I pulled last week that was running and back together. The only thing changed was I have a strong reverse and a lot of black sut in the pan, the warmer it gets the worse it gets. Out it comes and really don't know the problem with the trans now.

[engairuph]

Back at the transmission shop and fully rebuilt again with loose bolts on the valve body. Now they are saying that the everything is working manual but will only shift 1st to 2nd and will not shift anymore. They are trying to tell me that I need a TCM and the ECM will not run the trans with a 5.3, only with a 6.0. Looking for Ideals or what to do next?

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by engairuph

Back at the transmission shop and fully rebuilt again with loose bolts on the valve body. Now they are saying that the everything is working manual but will only shift 1st to 2nd and will not shift anymore. They are trying to tell me that I need a TCM and the ECM will not run the trans with a 5.3, only with a 6.0. Looking for Ideals or what to do next?

What exact ECM/TCM are you running, As long as everything is wired correctly & programmed for a 4L80E....The ECM/TCM doesn't know its controlling a 5.3L????

Even if you had a 4L60E program loaded, Codes would set, Trans would go into Limp Mode & 2nd gear would be the only forward gear.

Any active transmission codes?
ISS & VSS are functioning?
See if the TCM is commanding 3rd gear with a Scanner....

[engairuph]

Originally Posted by clinebarger

What exact ECM/TCM are you running, As long as everything is wired correctly & programmed for a 4L80E....The ECM/TCM doesn't know its controlling a 5.3L????

Even if you had a 4L60E program loaded, Codes would set, Trans would go into Limp Mode & 2nd gear would be the only forward gear.

Any active transmission codes?
ISS & VSS are functioning?
See if the TCM is commanding 3rd gear with a Scanner....

I have the ECM from BP Automotive with there wiring harness. Why a TCM when the ECM does everything RIGHT?

[BR3W CITY]

Depends on what ECM your using. IIRC the e38 pcm's use a TCM because the trans drivers aren't integral to the pcm board. Then GenIII ECM's should control the 4l60/65/70/80e

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by engairuph

I have the ECM from BP Automotive with there wiring harness. Why a TCM when the ECM does everything RIGHT?

Where are you getting the VSS signal from? I have asked this question before?
Transmission or Transfer case???

If you are trying to use the Transmission VSS location on a 4wd 4L80E.....GM did not press a Output Tone Wheel on the Output Carrier on 4wd 4L80E's, However the Parking Pawl Lugs are right next to where the Tone Wheel would be, This would give a false reading to the PCM & result in VSS signal drop-out!

Pictures comparing the 2 Output Carriers.

[engairuph]

Originally Posted by clinebarger

Where are you getting the VSS signal from? I have asked this question before?
Transmission or Transfer case???

If you are trying to use the Transmission VSS location on a 4wd 4L80E.....GM did not press a Output Tone Wheel on the Output Carrier on 4wd 4L80E's, However the Parking Pawl Lugs are right next to where the Tone Wheel would be, This would give a false reading to the PCM & result in VSS signal drop-out!

Pictures comparing the 2 Output Carriers.

The transmission. The ECM is a 2005 along with engine 2005 LM7and trans 1997 4L80e transfer case np205.
The trans guy said that there is a tone ring in the trans, so he's mistaken from what I'm understanding?
Makes more sense, Thanks
Solution??

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by engairuph

The transmission. The ECM is a 2005 along with engine 2005 LM7and trans 1997 4L80e transfer case np205.
The trans guy said that there is a tone ring in the trans, so he's mistaken from what I'm understanding?
Makes more sense, Thanks
Solution??

Easily checked though the trans case with the VSS sensor removed, Use the images above as a reference. No guessing necessary on this one.

[engairuph]

I'm still having a issue getting my 4L80e to shift. I have a 2005 5.3 and a 1997 4L80e in a 69 4x4 suburban. Transmission guy that built trans says it not compatible and has to have a different computer. BP sent me a different computer and still the same. Changed the manifold and now I have 1-2 shift and have changed the solenoids and still nothing. Others I have talk to said it will not run on this computer. So what's next?
__________________

[BR3W CITY]

FWIW, I'm running a 97 4l80e on mine behind the 6.0
The v8/auto ECM's from 2000-2006 shouldn't have a major fit about controlling it....unless the whole transfer case thing is part of the problem (no clue on 4x4 stuff). The ECM's don't care about the displacement, so long as it was a v8 auto...and even then there are things that can be done.

I'm curious, they keep saying "you need a different computer"...so WHAT computer are they trying to tell you to get?

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by engairuph

I'm still having a issue getting my 4L80e to shift. I have a 2005 5.3 and a 1997 4L80e in a 69 4x4 suburban. Transmission guy that built trans says it not compatible and has to have a different computer. BP sent me a different computer and still the same. Changed the manifold and now I have 1-2 shift and have changed the solenoids and still nothing. Others I have talk to said it will not run on this computer. So what's next?
__________________

All '94 & up 4L80E's are compatible (Electronically) with any Gen III PCM! As long as it has a 4L80E tune/segment swap. Don't know where this false info came from...But it is just that, FALSE.
If Bill @ BP Automotive sent you another PCM, & Built your Harness? We can just about rule out the PCM or Harness being the problem. He built my harness & tuned my PCM, And mine was way "off the wall" stuff compared to yours.

Did you make sure the Tone Wheel is on the Output Carrier?

Has anyone Logged data? Or at least hooked up a Scanner to see if 3rd gear is being commanded? Watched the VSS data? Are codes being set?

[engairuph]

Yelp transmission guys in FL are ?????? know nothing and still insisting that I have to have a 6.0 and computer can not be flashed to run with 5.3. Trans pulled and at different shop were the clutches are coming apart and had bad manifold and broke wire to a solenoid. Thanks for the help guys and will be back on the road next week.

[Custom 68]

Like cline mentioned and it may have been said above there is what they call a "segment swap". To run a 4l80 transmission on a computer originally set up for a 4l60 this must be done. It is not as easy as just clicking the button inside HP tuners. It changes lots of internal stuff. That said it is not a hard thing to do but needs to be done. If that has not been confirmed with your tuner then I would start there. I have not done this but I do have an 80 in my show that I am going to swap sometime and will need to do that when I do the swap.

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by Custom 68

It is not as easy as just clicking the button inside HP tuners.

You gotta click a few buttons