problem installing ac on a 350 sbc

[Sweet Willy]

The problem is I have an electric water pump. Has anyone overcome the problem of pulleys etc. Would a serpentine system work? I like to use my truck as a daily driver, but at 71 yrs. old I just can't handle the heat in the summer anymore.
What seems to be the obvious answer which is to go back to a standard water pump configuration is not an option because I have an original radiator. Ordinarily this radiator would be too small. But, with an electrical water pump the water flows at the same speed if it's at an idle or 70 mph. I've done parades, etc. and the water temp never changes. To change over to original pump is too expensive as I'd have to buy the pump and all that goes with it plus an aluminum radiator.
Hope someone has a doable solution.
Thanks to all.

[OrrieG]

What is running the alternator and power steering pump if you have one? Pics would be helpful.

[Sweet Willy]

They have belts of course. The problem is the electric pump is too wide and deep for other belts to go around. Maybe you can tell what I'm talking about from the pics.
Thanks.

[Old Crow]

If you've already got an electric fan, then you're talking a $30 water pump , an $8 belt, and a 2 row pulley which is about $43 for chrome or $63 for billet from your local auto parts store.

The thermostat and electric fan control your water temp, not the pump. I'm pretty sure the GM engineers took engine speed/pump capacity into account when they designed the pump in the first place, so it should have no problem moving enough coolant to cool your truck even at idle. Electric pumps are for those who want every last ounce of power(something you hardly need in a parade)or for just the cool factor(and I'm not talking a/c here). I just don't think they're necessary on the street.

As far as radiators, I just bought a Champion 3 row aluminum radiator for our AD project for around $250, so they aren't outrageously priced. I've used several of these, and one customer with a 383 stroker in his car says it's never run as cool since he's had the car('57 BelAir, his grandpa bought new). They look pretty sharp, too.

[1project2many]

The LS engines which replaced the smallblock puts the AC compressor down low and drives it with a separate belt.

I'm with Old Crow on switching back to belt driven pump. Even if you find a way to install the compressor with the electric pump I wonder about whether or not the electric pump will be good enough. My experience with electric pumps is that they're best for light vehicles with no goodies running for a fairly short amount of time but that was years ago. Yours sounds very different though.

Here's an idea for mounting a device over the water pump:


If you move the alternator and switch to a smaller version (possibly a higher output version at the same time) then you could repurpose the current alternator bracket. Or you could find a Sanden or other small compressor and mount that at the top. Here's another solution:


Of course, by the time you get done buying or building either of these solutions you're going to be into this for far more than the price of a belt drive water pump and a few other goodies. But you'll be able to keep the electric one. March has an option too but don't even ask the price:

[1project2many]

Also wanted to add pictures of GM's solution for a production car system without a belt driven pump. There are two.


LT1 Corvette


Camaro/Caprice/Impala

[Old Crow]

Quote: March has an option too but don't even ask the price:


NO kidding. I had to buy some pulleys from them for a MoPar we did. I could get a whole set of billet pulleys for a SBC for the price I paid for a black p/s pump pulley and a 2 groove w/p pulley for that car.

[Sweet Willy]

Old Crow, you've got me looking into a new radiator and water pump. I need one for a '54 Chevy truck. If you have any suggestions I'd appreciate it.
thanks.

[solidaxel]

I use Bill's Hot Rod brackets and a Stewart Components water pump a Sanden compressor a Champ. rad. and Vintage Air on all of my builds and they all work here in the desert So West.
Just a suggestion you have to start somewhere. Also a electric fan with a ground start thermostat (water temp ) switch and a relay on SBC

[Old Crow]

For an SBC, I'd just use O'Reilly's or whatever auto parts store is close for the pump. Pulleys can come off Ebay(remember you'll need a double groove w/p pulley, a double groove p/s pulley and 3 grooves on the crankshaft pulley).
A/C, I'm with Solidaxle(but then, I'm a VA dealer)on the Vintage Air
Radiators I've been buying from Champion. They're on Ebay, but they also have their own web site, too.
Vintage Air has an optional trinary switch for electric fans. You'll also need a temp sensor/switch to go in the engine. This way the fan will come on either when the engine temp reaches a desired level, or when the a/c clutch engages.

[OrrieG]

It looks like you might be able to use an idle pulley and high mount AC bracket to get around the electric pump similar to what is shown in the stock photos. I blanched at the costs for aftermarket brackets and made mine for PS pump, Alternator and AC out of scraps metal I had laying around. I also did not like the bulk of the aftermarket stuff, I wanted to show off the valve covers and engine not the accessory brackets. If you decide to go to stock water pump be careful ordering pulleys. I found that they come in matched sets and cannot be mixed and matched because of different diameters (they hit each other) and different offset of the grooves related to the crank mounting point (long wp vs short wp). Also contrary to what you read on the net BB pulleys will not work. I have quite a collection from my efforts before I got a match set of crank 3 groove and WP 2 groove from Kustombrad.

[mr48chev]

To be quite honest I always thought that those electric pumps were intended for the Ricky Racer bracket racers who needed to cool the cars down between rounds and not really intended for extended street use.

I don't know if it can be done but you might look at offsetting the compressor slightly to the right side just far enough for a belt to clear the water pump and run and adjustable idler on the other side to get adjustment and have the belt clear on the drivers side.

I'm still not a big fan of the electric pump though. I know it earns points with the gold chainers at a Goodguys meet when you can pull in and run the pump and fan to "cool" the engine off after the truck is parked and shut down but that isn't really a necessary element.

[OrrieG]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

I know it earns points with the gold chainers at a Goodguys meet

LMAO....the ones right next to the letterman jacket corvette owners?

[mr48chev]

Yep those guys. The "I have more tied up in billet on this car than you have in your house brigade". There used to be one in the PNW who would have "his people" bring the car in in an enclosed trailer and set it up in a "prime" spot and get it all detailed and set his color matched lawn chairs out for when he arrived to hold court. I got that from one of the guys who worked for him and took the car around and set it up. That was at outdoor shows not indoor shows like Boise or the Portland Roadster show or the GNRS.

[Sweet Willy]

The electric water pump was not my idea. The a**hole that put the engine in said I needed one so I went and got one. I'm thinking replacing the water pump is the way to go since I already have a 3 grove pulley on the crank and two grove on the power steering pump. This engine did have an a/c on it with a bad compressor so I just pulled the whole thing. Wish I still had it. This engine came out of a 1980 C10. I assume I need the long water pump. Is that correct?
Thanks.

[Old Crow]

I believe that's correct for the passenger side alternator setup. The VA kit will come with a compressor bracket for your setup(they ask alternator location and water pump length when you order).

[OrrieG]

Yes long water pump is used for passenger side alternator on 350's. VA makes a kit that mounts the AC on the drivers side. Make sure to clarify how you want to run the line so you do not end up with it draped over the engine.

[Sweet Willy]

Dang! How or where would you run the line? Never even gave that a thought.

[Old Crow]

We did a '70 C-10 truck for a guy. He had the same w/pump and accessory setup as you will. Ran the hoses over the top of the motor, and it had a fairly stock appearance when we were done. Of course if you're building a showpiece instead of a driver, that might offend you. VA has extended hose kits, and also various length hard lines that you can use to custom route your hoses.
Pics of that '70 can be found at www.facebook.com/vincesvintage There's also some pics of a '57 with the VA Frontrunner serpentine system, but you're talking big money there.

[_Ogre]

i'm not a fan of the electric pump as it's another point of failure in the cooling system
but if you want to keep it, mount your ps pump low with the alternator above it
run the ac compressor on the pass side low

my ac is low on the pass side it would easily clear your pump
homemade bracket that cost me $5 mostly for the adjusting clevis



my alt could easily be lowered to clear your pump here

[Sweet Willy]

Hate to keep bugging you guys but I am going to put in the standard water pump and I also want to move the alternator to the driver side so I can mount the a/c compressor on the passenger side. The water pump will be the long pump. Any suggestions on what and where to buy brackets to accomplish all this on a VERY limited budget.
Thanks again.

[Old Crow]

I realize that the Vintage Air online catalog is a PITA, but everything you need is in there. I counted 5 different sets of brackets for a small block. Most are available in plain steel or chrome, and most are available for long or short w/pump and passenger or drivers side compressor mounting. They have brackets to move the alternator to the drivers side as well as p/s pump brackets if you need them.
Most of the compressor/alternator brackets for the small block are on page 66 and 67 of the web catalog.

[_Ogre]

all this on a VERY limited budget.

fab up your own brackets, i might have $10 in all of my front accessory brackets
most of that is for bolts, heim joints and specialty parts
use what you have for starters and go from there

[OrrieG]

Ogre know I am on the same page, I have about the same amount in my brackets. Buying from any vendor does not result in a small budget. here is a shot of my AC bracket. Simple and sturdy, made from flat stock I had laying around. Most expensive part was the chrome recessed hex bolts! I mocked up everything with heavy cardboard templates to get the alignment and geometry right and left room for front to back fine tuning. Details in my build thread.

[_Ogre]

ps pump bracket for low mount, no welding required, just a drill and grinder w/cutoff wheel