No Limit or PorterBuilt or What?

[jim-bob]

..I'm wanting a totally new suspension front and rear on my 67 Short Step-a-side ..I've been reading some of the build posts and it seems PorterBuilt and NoLimit are the ones most used. I will be 70 Friday so I ,and my wife, would like a smooth comfortable ride..I haven't decided on what engine and tranny to put in but reading a lot on the LS and will prolly go that route..(I still like to get down on it once in awhile..What will be the best choice in your honest opinions..also choices on engine and tranny..I'm not the one that will be building the truck (I take'em apart) so your advise will be shared with them.. Thanks!

[Xeen]

You don't have to spend $5,000 to get a comfortable ride, the porterbuilt stuff is more for the guys who want to go lower than what is possible with most aftermarket parts.
Even though porterbuilt does make a "stage one" lowering kit IMO it isn't worth the money you will spend on it because CPP makes everything you will need for less money and the quality is good, some guys may disagree but that's my opinion and I stand behind it.

Now if you wan't to lay frame with air ride then there is no better set up than porterbuilt it is the best hands down and they will make sure you have the right parts to suit your needs.
If you have an unlimited budget and just don't care what it costs then go porterbuilt for everything regardless of what stage drop you are going with.

LSX is definitely the way to go for power and reliability, there is no better choice.
I recommend a LS3 for bang for your buck.
Another option is the LSX 376-B15 with twin turbos for the ultimate experience.
Another option is the LS9 for plug and play thrills.

[slowcpe]

If you've got the funds, a full Porterbuilt/NoLimit setup is the way to go. The Ridetech kit is nice and pretty straightforward. You basically get an all new chassis with updated geometry for better ride/handling. Of course that comes with a bit of an investment.

For a standard static drop with nice ride, I've read nothing but great things on the ECE kit. I came real close to going this route before I jumped into the deep end feet first. Would have saved me a bunch time and money.

For motor, if you're not wanting to make ridiculous power, a basic 5.3 with maybe a mild cam and 4l60e trans would be a hard combo to beat. My 5.3 in my Tahoe has 258k and still running strong.

[Justin@EntropyRad]

Lots of good info in here!

[summitflier]

Take your pick...

Scott's hotrods
Heidts,
Fatman Fab
No Limit
JW's hotrod shop
Southern Chassis
Performance Online
Classic Performance Products
Porterbuilt
Total Cost Involved
Yogi's
PB Fab
Hotchkis

... there might even be a few others...
I've seen some as low $1995, I've seen some for over $7500,
Like others have said.. it depends what you want and how much you want to spend.
You want comfort, or you want to go low, or both?
Coil overs, bags, stock springs? There are literally dozens of options.

[jim-bob]

..what I was afraid of..too many good'uns to choose from..thanks for these responses but it seems you have to be a mechanic that has experienced some of these builds to know the best way to go..I do have money set aside for this build but want to have gas money left over..
Some things I'm not familiar with..what does "lay frame" and stactic drop mean?
I also need to change the 6 lug over to 5 so doesn't this come as a kit or in one of the supension kits?
I do want it lowered some maybe 2/4 but want a little rake with it..I just don't want to see fender well ..I will go with 15" wheels and all the rubber I can get in there.
Is that 5.3 gonna lay me down some rubber when i want to impress my younger friends (and some older) I have a 67 Camaro with a 406 that I love driving.
..I truly appreciate the responses and some advise on what NOT to do..It will help me communicate with my builder..I hope

[tinydb84]

Laying frame is just what is sounds like. You would air down and the frame sits on the ground. Static is a non adjustable drop (think springs).

It doesn't sound like you want/need to be ultra low. Do you care to adjust your suspension height? If not a nice set of springs and quality shocks can give you a good ride and save you thousands.

If you go with an aftermarket set up then you can order it all in 5 lug. If not then you will need to switch out your brakes and axels (or just order 6 lug wheels).

5.3 will make good power compared to a stock 350. If you want more power then get a 6.0 and toss a mild cam in it and I am sure you will be plenty happy.

I know my recommendations are boring compared to what everyone else has said so far but it will get you a very nice and dependable ride.

[summitflier]

A static drop frame is were the frame itself is lowered, not by means of shortened springs or suspension parts.

My kit came with a 5 lug option, I believe most do. The most common 5 lug bolt pattern is 5x5. But some offer 5x4.75 and other sizes. My kit also came with disc brake options. That seems to be standard on almost all of them. (I don't think I've ever seen an aftermarket suspension with drums). If you're going to stick with 15 inch wheels, make sure you don't get the drums too big. (13 and 14 inch disc's don't play well with 15 inch wheels). Also remember, if you want all four wheels to look the same, you'll have to put 5 lug axles on the rear to match.
My kit came with a rack and pinion power steering option. So the stock power steering box doesn't work with it.
I'm with you on the raked look. I know the current trend is to put the rear in the weeds, but I prefer the "jacked up in the rear" look.

This is where the engine cradle and motor mounts sit, so it you're thinking of going to a big block or LS.. this is the time to decide.

[Advanced Design]

Another option is the Ridetech coil over suspension.
http://www.ridetech.com/store/1963-1...n-level-1.html

More information ...
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=597074

[BossHogg69]

Originally Posted by summitflier

A static drop frame is were the frame itself is lowered, not by means of shortened springs or suspension parts.

Not trying to be nit picky here, but I always thought a static drop was one achieved by using drop coil springs that gives you a "static" drop i.e., vehicle height is always the same. Air bags (and hydraulics) are not static because they allow you to adjust the vehicle's height. Then you have a body drop, where the body is basically channeled over the frame making the vehicle appear lower while not actually changing the height of the suspension.

As for suspension parts, I have mostly CPP (classic performance parts) on my C10 short stepside - front coil springs, quick ratio steering box and tubular a-arms & front sway bar. I also have some Hotchkis stuff and homemade stuff on it too. You can see pics of my heap in the albums on my profile page (my build is too slow & boring for a build thread). Mine is about a 5/7 drop and I'm running Chris Alston double adjustable shocks.

[boostedc10]

Static drop simply means a fixed ride height. This is done mostly by lowered springs/spindles, blocks/flip kit or switching to coil overs.

Not sure who you got this info from, but I would stop listening to them!

[summitflier]

If it changes... it isn't static.
Some vendors call it static, but it isn't.
If I'm depending on something that is constantly changing to control the height
it isn't static... i.e. spring that bounce as you go down the road.

A channeled body, or a frame with lowered body mounts is static.
The suspension still bounces under the truck, but I'm not depending on the parts
that move to keep it lowered.

[boostedc10]

Like I said before, I have no idea who provided you this info but I wouldn't listen to them. Static drop in this industry have always been fixed suspension not body drops which is something totally different!

[slowcpe]

I'm under the same school of thought as boosted: static drops refers to coil springs that lower the vehicle a certain height and is not adjustable like air bags.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by summitflier

If it changes... it isn't static.
Some vendors call it static, but it isn't.
If I'm depending on something that is constantly changing to control the height
it isn't static... i.e. spring that bounce as you go down the road.

A channeled body, or a frame with lowered body mounts is static.
The suspension still bounces under the truck, but I'm not depending on the parts
that move to keep it lowered.

The factory suspension is static.

I also learned of 'Static" drops as always being simple lowering of the suspension via spindles, springs, or lowering blocks (& this was since back in the 80's).

If there's something constantly "changing" to control the height, it would be considered an 'adjustable' suspension which would be air (using sensors to determine & adjust pressures/height accordingly). *Hydraulics are used as well but are mainly user adjusted .* If the frame itself is lowered/altered vs. stock dimensions/geometry, it's no longer simple lowering.

Peeking in on your build, it looks like you chose an aftermarket static dropped front suspension (coilovers that remain @ a constant height setting unless a wrench/tool is used for adjustment when the vehicle is sitting still) that also has it's mounting points raised vs the OE mounting points for additional lowering (nice build so far BTW).

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by jim-bob

..I'm wanting a totally new suspension front and rear on my 67 Short Step-a-side ..I've been reading some of the build posts and it seems PorterBuilt and NoLimit are the ones most used. I will be 70 Friday so I ,and my wife, would like a smooth comfortable ride..I haven't decided on what engine and tranny to put in but reading a lot on the LS and will prolly go that route..(I still like to get down on it once in awhile..What will be the best choice in your honest opinions..also choices on engine and tranny..I'm not the one that will be building the truck (I take'em apart) so your advise will be shared with them.. Thanks!

For the mild drop you're after, theres really no reason to change everything & spend that much money. Better steering & road performance/drivability can be had w/some revised stock GM front end geometry or by swapping in some aftermarket a-arms. Add some good shocks, tires, sway bars, + optimum alignment settings & it will feel completly different.

The 5.3 LS drivetrain would offer nice, smooth, & efficient power w/current standards of reliability (if kept fuel injected). Keep the factory LS based 4-speed overdrive automatic behind it for optimum drivability.

[jim-bob]

..Well..I see not everyone agrees on what exactly "static drop" is but a lot of these responses are too technical for me anyway..I see some stances I like and will send question to those folks by PM..I truly appreciate and enjoy reading all the information that I'm receiving..I do want to go with an EFI Engine and matching Trans..I've been reading the builds and still don't understand how one chooses whether to use a LS1 or LS2 or LS3 or LS 5.3 or LS 6.0, etc and all the trans 4L60; 4L60E; 4L70; 4L80 WOW..I do know I want the upgraded electronic fuel injections, computerize blah blah engine with around 400hp at the wheels ; and the best Trans to go with it; and the best driving and riding suspension you can put on my 67 GMC short stepper without extreme lowering..
Question: Is the "power rack & pinion" system a good choice and doesn't it eliminate the power steering box?
After the replies I see that NO-LIMIT and PORTERBUILT I guess are for the really ground huggers..
So now what Suspension; Engine; and Tranny should I order If you were me

[summitflier]

You'll probably get more opinions about engines and trans than suspensions

In any case... what are the plans for the truck? How do you want to drive it?
Sport Truck? Street/Strip racer? Towing anything? Daily driver?
Does gas mileage matter? How much? Do you want overdrive?

If towing and torque matter, get a big block.
If gas mileage is important you can always go with a 6cyl and/or an overdrive tranny.
My personal opinion (opinions may vary) is that for general all around driving, a good ole small-block is hard to beat. (I'm in the process of putting in a 383 stroker/700R4).
If you can afford it, a newer LS engine is a popular option. Better gas mileage and more power than the older style engines.

[slowcpe]

NoLimit and Porterbuilt's coil over kits will be roughly the equilvlent to a 6/4 drop, not necessarily ground-hugging. Both would be great kits to give you much improved handling and ride. Ridetech's coil over kit may be a little less invasive and offer similar results.

400hp to the wheels will be a decent task to achieve through a 4l60/4l80e trans. Easier to accomplish through the 60e but may be at its limits. To help compare the modern transmissions think of the 4l60 as a th350 and a 4l80 as a th400 but with an extra gear. The 6Ls are 6-speeds.

My current planned combo is a an lq4 (lower compression 6.0) w/243 heads (same head as factory but smaller combustion chamber to bring compression up), decent size cam, bigger injectors, necessary odds n ends, and a t56. That should get me over 400hp to the wheels. If I run my 4l80e instead, I'll probably looking at 360-380 and a 3400-3600 stall.

Any more power and I'm looking at a lot more money or going turbo.

[tinydb84]

Originally Posted by slowcpe

400hp to the wheels will be a decent task to achieve through a 4l60/4l80e trans. Easier to accomplish through the 60e but may be at its limits. To help compare the modern transmissions think of the 4l60 as a th350 and a 4l80 as a th400 but with an extra gear. The 6Ls are 6-speeds.

My current planned combo is a an lq4 (lower compression 6.0) w/243 heads (same head as factory but smaller combustion chamber to bring compression up), decent size cam, bigger injectors, necessary odds n ends, and a t56. That should get me over 400hp to the wheels. If I run my 4l80e instead, I'll probably looking at 360-380 and a 3400-3600 stall.

Any more power and I'm looking at a lot more money or going turbo.

There isn't that much of a difference between the power lost of a 60 vs 80: http://www.performancetrucks.net/for...esults-503358/

My brother has pretty much the same engine built for his Nova. It isn't running yet so I don't have any info on its performance.

[Xeen]

Originally Posted by jim-bob

So now what Suspension; Engine; and Tranny should I order If you were me

Jim-bob, I would be happy to help you figure out a plan of attack for the suspension system, engine and transmission and as luck would have it I'm even a phone guy, I will sit and go through part selection with you a piece at a time for as long as it takes to make sure you get what you want and need.
If you want to hit me with your info, number, best time to call etc. we can get R dun.

[jim-bob]

Originally Posted by summitflier

You'll probably get more opinions about engines and trans than suspensions

In any case... what are the plans for the truck? How do you want to drive it?
Sport Truck? Street/Strip racer? Towing anything? Daily driver?
Does gas mileage matter? How much? Do you want overdrive?

If towing and torque matter, get a big block.
If gas mileage is important you can always go with a 6cyl and/or an overdrive tranny.
My personal opinion (opinions may vary) is that for general all around driving, a good ole small-block is hard to beat. (I'm in the process of putting in a 383 stroker/700R4).
If you can afford it, a newer LS engine is a popular option. Better gas mileage and more power than the older style engines.

.....I'v saved the funds to have this done right..LS sounds like what I want..I'm not planing to paint it for a while so I'm gonna drive it often..I'm retired and have other vehicles but i will drive this one whenever i need to go anywhere If its gonna be enjoyable to drive on the streets and on I-Hwys..OD is ok but not a deal breaker..I'm not concerned with gas..I will NOT be towing with it..I want to have a quick get-up-and go! Smooth gear changing if possible.(my 67 camaro w/406/4L60 has a harsh 1st to 2nd when you stomp it but smooth after)..
Thanks Summitflier

[jim-bob]

Originally Posted by slowcpe

NoLimit and Porterbuilt's coil over kits will be roughly the equilvlent to a 6/4 drop, not necessarily ground-hugging. Both would be great kits to give you much improved handling and ride. Ridetech's coil over kit may be a little less invasive and offer similar results.

400hp to the wheels will be a decent task to achieve through a 4l60/4l80e trans. Easier to accomplish through the 60e but may be at its limits. To help compare the modern transmissions think of the 4l60 as a th350 and a 4l80 as a th400 but with an extra gear. The 6Ls are 6-speeds.
My current planned combo is a an lq4 (lower compression 6.0) w/243 heads (same head as factory but smaller combustion chamber to bring compression up), decent size cam, bigger injectors, necessary odds n ends, and a t56. That should get me over 400hp to the wheels. If I run my 4l80e instead, I'll probably looking at 360-380 and a 3400-3600 stall.
Any more power and I'm looking at a lot more money or going turbo.

"ridetech coil-overs less invasive than NL and PB" do you mean there will be a lot of cutting and welding on the NL and PB?
RideTech may be for me...I was told the 4L60 is similar to 700r??whats the difference in 4L60 and 4L60E

[slowcpe]

Originally Posted by jim-bob

"ridetech coil-overs less invasive than NL and PB" do you mean there will be a lot of cutting and welding on the NL and PB?
RideTech may be for me...I was told the 4L60 is similar to 700r??whats the difference in 4L60 and 4L60E

By less invasive I mean it's a bit simpler setup that utilizes the factory front crossmember and steering. I'm not sure about the NoLimit kit, but the PB kit is a bolt-in as I have the air ride version of the coil over kit you would looking at.

[Advanced Design]

Jim bob, the 4L60E is electronically shifted by the computer...PCM. For a nice dependable cruiser with good manners, great acceleration and dependability the 5.3 from a truck with the 4L60E is a nice package. I have that in my 56 BelAir and love it.

Also, you could consider ECE for your drop components. While I haven't ordered from them members here rave about their service. Some drop spindles and springs might meet your needs.