1977 P10 Step Van Rebuild

[mattdmeyer]

Well here we go! The can of worms is open. I'm just about to start a 1977 P-10 Step Van restoration. I picked this van up from a guy in Phoenix. It's lived its entire live in AZ so there is very little rust, and all that can be seen are surface stains. I'll just have to give the frame a little bath in light scrub, then paint to seal it.

This truck will be used as a catering/dessert truck used to supplement my wife's bakery business. I hesitate to call it a food truck because it will not be used to prepare food, but only vend. I will have fresh croissants, cookies, scones, eclairs, espresso, and pour over coffee. I only have about 42 sq ft inside the back that will be used for the work area. This will need to fit the refrigerator, hand sink, counter for espresso machine and storage for the day's pastry items. I will have the option to also pull a small trailer if it ever required.

This truck has the original 1977 I6 292 with a SM465 4-speed manual transmission. There has not been any previous restoration work done, so no modern luxuries. No A/C, no power steering, manual shifting.

My plans for the restore are as follows:

Replace the 292 with a new engine. I have a few options here. I could swap it with a small block 350, but I really don't want to spend a lot of time cutting/welding the frame if that would be needed. I really don't need a lot of speed, and I sure don't want to lose on towing ability. The back will have only a few hundred pounds of gear so I think a 350 would still do the trick. It was also suggested to me to look into a 383 Stroker which would give me the speed of the 350 and still have quite a bit of torque that the 292 had. I dunno. I'm still on the fence on swapping the motor. I know the 292 works and would be a direct replacement. The faster this is in service the faster I'm making money, so I'm weighing that with this decision too.

Next is to replace the tranny with a 700R4 automatic. I'm not always going to be the one driving this baby, and I want to make it as easy as possible for anyone that is working the truck that day. Since it won't always be me, and all the current staff doesn't know how to drive a standard transmission, this is a must. I decided on the 700R4 for the overdrive to save a little on gas. Since I won't be pulling and stumps out of the ground or hauling bricks, the 700R4 would be up for the job.

New radiator/transmission cooler. If this is needed, I'll be adding this since I'm swapping the transmission to automatic.

New drive shaft. Will need to be shorter since the new transmission is longer.

New steering column. I will cover up the hole in the floor where the shifter once was and will move the shifter to the steering column.

Power steering. This will be interesting since I've never added power steering before or even know where to begin for this. This will be fun.

Air conditioning. I will install an RV A/C unit to the roof of the truck. This way it can run without the engine running if I have A/C power available at the vend site. I will also have a couple portable generators. It would be nice to be able to run the A/C driving for hot summer months in TX, but not 100% required.

We'll I think that is about it. If I can think of anything else I plan to do, I'll update the thread along the way. I'm also open to any suggestions or opinions you may have!

[mattdmeyer]

Day 1


Inside:

[mattdmeyer]

8/22/2015
Floor panels removed. Almost ready to cherry pick the transmission and motor out. These clutch head screws were a real pain in the *** to remove. 38 years of light rust and dirt were really holding those panels on. I will be investing in an impact driver to remove the rest. I want to resurface/prime/paint the dash to make it look classy.

[mikentosh]

Very cool and unique. Looking forward to seeing this come together.

[cooperhw]

Very nice. What a time capsul for a little utility vehicle. That baby was put on this earth to work, that's it.
Question; Where did you get your shade structure and how much was it? I have a little 10 X 10 that I work under in my back yard and that right there would be much better if I can anchor it down from the monsoon winds.

[mattdmeyer]

Hi Cooper. I believe this was picked up at K-Mart many years back. They have since closed their stores around this area. I believe you can find something similar at Northern Tool or Harbor Freight.

[calvin78612]

I'm in. If you guys need a hand let me know.

[jdl71]

Is there something wrong with the current 292? Just wondering why you are considering a v8 swap? The 292 and small block are the same bolt pattern so the 700r should bolt up.

[cooperhw]

Originally Posted by jdl71

Is there something wrong with the current 292? Just wondering why you are considering a v8 swap? The 292 and small block are the same bolt pattern so the 700r should bolt up.

jdl71 brings up a really good point. Those 292's are awesome motors. Run like a champ. You could just do some gaskets, and a great tune up for now using good parts and run it. During a slow time pull it and rebuild it and back in she goes.
Might want to save your Hot rod aspirations for another vehicle?

[mattdmeyer]

There is nothing wrong with the current 292, AFAIK. Since converting to an automatic transmission is a must, I figured I would just replace the motor at the same time and give myself the peace of mind that it shouldn't break down anytime soon. Once I get this in service, I don't want to pull it out because it suddenly didn't want to hold compression anymore.

Time is also constrained. My wife wants this project done and in service ASAP. Buying a crate motor ready to swap reduces the restore time since I won't need to rebuild.

For the project managers out there, I'm prepared to spend money for reduced time and higher quality.

[cooperhw]

Originally Posted by mattdmeyer

There is nothing wrong with the current 292, AFAIK. Since converting to an automatic transmission is a must, I figured I would just replace the motor at the same time and give myself the peace of mind that it shouldn't break down anytime soon. Once I get this in service, I don't want to pull it out because it suddenly didn't want to hold compression anymore.

Time is also constrained. My wife wants this project done and in service ASAP. Buying a crate motor ready to swap reduces the restore time since I won't need to rebuild.

For the project managers out there, I'm prepared to spend money for reduced time and higher quality.

With all this said; "I'm prepared to spend money for reduced time and higher quality" you might want to look at the GM performance parts offerings such as the LS-3 option. It's lighter, fuel injected, will run forever, better performance, great mileage, and it's practically a one wire plug in. Pricey, but quality. Plugs will go about 80,000 before they need replaced.

[Clyde65]

update??

[mattdmeyer]

My day job required some travel recently, which limited my progress. This past weekend we pulled a couple more floor panels off so they could be stripped, sanded, and primed. We also got the old motor and transmission out.

Ready to pull


It's out! That was kind of a pain. In hindsight, we should have done the transmission and motor in two steps to make it a little easier to manage.


Final resting place


Big empty hole

[mattdmeyer]

A path has been chosen and I'm sticking to it.

I've decided to keep the 292. I will either find someone in the DFW area to do the rebuild, or I'll buy one already done. Either way, I didn't want to lose any time with dorking with any cutting or custom fab to make the 350 work. Plus with a little tweaking on the 292, I can get more HP than I really need for this application.

Here are my thoughts on the 292 rebuild. I'll let someone do a simple rebuild to bring it similar to OEM specs. Maybe just a few minor tweaks. However, the other day I was speaking to my primary care mechanic. He mentioned that if a rebuild is going to be done, I should try to find someone that will add dual carburetors to the build. He mentioned this will assign one carb to three cylinders, which will give it a bit more efficiency, and smoother idle since the FA mixture will be burning more efficiently. Then at the same time, convert to a dual exhaust system. Has anyone done anything like this? Is the juice worth the squeeze? There is a lot that can be said about keeping things simple too!

Next, I'm going to add a MSD. Better spark, better burn. Speaking with someone that added this to his P10 with a 250, this is a must.

As for the transmission, I'm going to use either a 700-R4 or the 4L60E (which would require an external computer to control the shifting). If anyone has any experience with the the 4L60E over the 700-R4 for this kind of application and has any pointers, please fire away. I'm all ears.

Since the transmission will be quite a bit longer, a new drive shaft will be in order. No biggie.

Power steering - I'll be adding power steering to a 292. I read that this is not as much of a commodity part as the 250 would be. Any tips on everything I would need to add power steering would be immensely helpful.

Steering column. I have not found anyone to rebuild my steering column yet. I want to add the gear shifter to the column instead of a floor shifter. Still working on finding someone to take that project on.

Right now I have a 411 rear end. I'll be swapping that to a 350 or a 373 so I can go faster than 55 mph without hearing the poor thing scream at me.

Well that should be about it for now. I'll keep posting as progress is made.

[Jonboy]

A pro to using the 4L60e would be the lack of a TV cable. Since it it electronically controlled, you don't need a TV cable. The downside is the cost of the controller. It would also require an electric speedometer, but putting aftermarket gauges in your van would be relatively easy.

For the shifter, why not use a floor shifter so you don't have to mess with the steering column?

[68Timber]

Cool project! Sub'd.

[95 S_Trucker]

You might not have to change rear gears since you'll be adding overdrive.

[jdl71]

Another thought on the shifter would be dash mounted like the older Dodge trucks and motorhomes used and I'm sure some step vans have used. I've also seen these in medium duty trucks with automatics. They basically look like a floor shifter rotated 90 degrees and mounted to the dash.

[mattdmeyer]

Originally Posted by Jonboy

A pro to using the 4L60e would be the lack of a TV cable. Since it it electronically controlled, you don't need a TV cable. The downside is the cost of the controller. It would also require an electric speedometer, but putting aftermarket gauges in your van would be relatively easy.

Are there any additional downstream effects to using the 4L60E over the 700-R4? Looks like the gauges are not too hard to find, but don't want to get any surprises down the road later. I sure love how much control you can get by programming the controller to make thing just right.

Originally Posted by Jonboy

For the shifter, why not use a floor shifter so you don't have to mess with the steering column?

Pretty simple really. I want that precious floor space back. To me, it's worth redoing the entire column just for that. Honestly, the column could use some love anyway. The turn signal doesn't turn off automatically for right-hand turns because of a busted part that controls that.

[TJ's Chevy]

I'm in for the build.

[mattdmeyer]

It's been awhile since posting an update, so here goes. October was a crazy month. I spend 3 solid weeks on the road, so during that time I was not able to do much. But before I left, I was able to drop off the engine to the machine shop to be rebuilt. I also was able to get some work done on refinishing the inside panels. Pics to follow.

[mattdmeyer]

The panels on the truck were in pretty good shape, but painted an ugly green. I have not decided on the final color yet, but I knew for sure it was not going to be green. Since I had most of them off the truck to remove the motor and transmission, I figured now would be a good time to strip the panels down to the metal, prep, and prime them. Here is the progress on that so far. I went through a few cans of stripper. Most of the top layers of paint scrapped right off, but there was a few layers of primer that was really being difficult. I found that aircraft paint remover did the trick for that though.

Doghouse stripped and ready for the first coat of etching primer.

[mattdmeyer]

Here are the right and bottom panels around the doghouse. As you can see, a little surface rust on the parts that had the metal exposed. Sanded it right down and smoothed it out. Ready for primer.

Right floor panel topside:


Right floor panel underside:


Bottom panel topside:


Bottom panel underside:

[mattdmeyer]

Here is a look of the main floor. It's in decent shape for 38 years. On the bottom side there is some rust damage, so I'll fill that in with some Bondo and smooth it out before priming it. Since I plan to replace the manual transmission with an automatic, the hole where the floor shifter came out will need to be filled. What I plan to do is cut a piece of sheet metal to size and fill the hole, then place a new layer of diamond plate over the entire floor so it's one continuous surface. This will also give the floor a little more support since the original diamond plate floor was of a pretty thin gauge and we can do better. I may also weld on a new cross beam under there for even more support, but cannot do that until I make sure it won't hit the new transmission.

Floor bottom:


Closeup of rust damage:


Kill room (for Dexter fans):

[mattdmeyer]

This is exciting. The engine is almost finished. Just a new water pump and distributer before she'll be ready to be hoisted back into her home. Since it was already apart, I had the chance to make it better than new. I bored it out to .030, and upgraded the cam. I also put on a new Offenhauser intake manifold, new Holley 4 barrel carb.

Fingers crossed that this is going to fit when I get it back in there. If not, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I'm very happy how this turned out.