Death Wobble After Ball Joint Swap

[blown240]

I put a new upper ball joint on my panel this weekend. I also removed a couple of the camber shims to get the wheel to not lean out, and took out a 1" wheel spacer.

I drove it today for the first time since the work, and at 40-45 mph it gets a bad wobble. It had a wobble when I first bought it, but new tires got rid if it.

What can cause this?
1. Ball joint isn't tight.... I tightened it with the front off the ground and the suspension hanging.
2. Tire is worn odd, and causing this
3. Tire toe is bad is toe out
4. $$$

under 40 mph i barely feel the wobble, but at 45 it gets bad.

Thoughts? Ideas?

[Chevy Fleetside]

Did you get an alignment?

[blown240]

Not yet. Have to save a bit to get one. Only guy around here that will do it wants $160. I can set the toe on my own. Ive done that a few times.

[blown240]

After talking to a buddy I am going to double check that the ball joint is tight with the wheel on the ground, then swap that tire to the rear to see if the wobble goes away or moves. I will report back....

[chevy_mike]

You must have the ball joint fully seated and tight in the spindle or very bad things can happen, including the stud breaking off at speed. Get that sorted out before you drive it anymore, period.

Next thing is, if any of the steering parts are worn out and you do not have a good alignment, this will cause problems like drifting, darting and wobbles. Again, get this sorted out now.

Steering and brakes are NOT any place to mess around with. Your life and others around you depend on it. Make sure they are right or do not drive it.

[blown240]

Thanks for the reply Mike.

I tightened the crap out of the joint, but that was without weight on the suspension. Ill check it again tomorrow with the wheels on the ground. Maybe the joint has seated in the spindle more...

[joedoh]

more than likely, your truck was aligned with worn suspension parts. when you replaced one balljoint, it likely took out some slack that was being compensated for in the alignment. having even half a turn extra on a tie rod will cause bad wobbling/shaking.

check your toe in/out with a tape measure in front of and behind the front tires with the wheels pointing straight ahead. even a small difference between the two measurements will indicate poor alignment.

weight on or off the balljoint when tightening does not make a difference, it is a tapered fit and once it is tight, it is tight.

[chevy_mike]

You are supposed to torque them to specific specs. I am not sure what they are for a '61. Tighten the crap out of is not a correct torque setting. You could have stretched the threads and it won't tighten correctly.

If they were loose in the spindle, you could have already messed up the taper in the spindle and you'll never get them to seat correctly.

[blown240]

I know that the alignment is off. It's a bit toe out. You can see it by looking at the tires. I guess that means it's a TON off.

I'll have to set the toe. What good? 1/16 toe in? 1/8?

[blown240]

Also, thanks for the input. I appreciate it!

[1971 GMC SHORTY]

Here Try This

[blown240]

Thanks for the torque specs! I'll check it tomorrow!!

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by blown240

I know that the alignment is off. It's a bit toe out. You can see it by looking at the tires. I guess that means it's a TON off.

I'll have to set the toe. What good? 1/16 toe in? 1/8?

Ive always been told slightly out is better for cornering, in for more high speed stability. this will flip flop going from negative camber to positive camber. when I do a driveway alignment I set it almost exactly zero. I dont drive around at 9/10ths like most people.

If you can see it, its WAY out.

[PGSigns]

Easy way to tighten the upper ball joint. Jack the truck just on that side jacking it near the end of the lower control arm. Put a jack stand under the truck and pull the wheel. leave the weight on the jack. This allows you to easily seat the taper with out working against the spring.
Jimmy

[blown240]

Thanks Jimmy! I'll do it that way for sure.

[blown240]

I went out just now and made sure the ball joint was torqued correctly. It was, so I rotated the front tire to the back and vise versa. I haven't had a chance to drive it yet, but hopefully this helps.

Also, I found that my torque limiting impact extensions are garbage. They only torque to about half their rating. I used my clicker torque wrench and torqued all the lugs to 60 ft/lb. Maybe that was causing some of the issue too.

Still haven't had time to measure toe...

[blown240]

UPDATE:

I went for a drive and the wobble is 75% better, which is good, but not good enough.

I measures the toe and the front of the tires are 1/4 wider than the rear of the tire. This is measuring at the exact same spot on the tread front and rear, left and right.

How do I determine which tie rod to adjust? Or just adjust them both?

Thanks!

[PGSigns]

If the steering wheel is centered then do them both.
Jimmy

[picklito]

Originally Posted by blown240

I also removed a couple of the camber shims to get the wheel to not lean out
Thoughts? Ideas?

Did you remove equal thickness of front and rear shims? If, for example, you removed more from the front, you lost the very little caster these trucks have to begin with. Also, removing these shims, all else being equal, will move the specs toward toe-out, as it sounds you have discovered.

Hope that helps!

[blown240]

I removed equal thickness shims from the front and rear of the wheel. Good to know it can make it toe out, that explains a lot!

Thanks!

[paulspickupparts]

Could be a lot of things. You replaced the ball joints. Have you checked tie rod ends, center link joints , pitman arm joint, wheel bearings? If you only replaced the ball joints there is a good chance your have other worn parts.

Tires and or rims can often create this problem. With a loose front end the tire or rim either being out of balance, slipped belt , bent rim , loose lug nuts, worn steering box, etc can start the oscillation. Putting on the brakes will sometimes put enough tension on the system it will stop . Other times it is necessary to bring the vehicle to a complete stop. I think you have other issues besides the ball joint.

Here is what I would like to say. But they have said it better than me. Had the same problem in a big truck. It ended up being a worn drag link ( I beam axle truck ) . Good reading if this link works.

http://www.souzastireservice.com/tir...d-wobbles.aspx

[blown240]

Thanks for the reply Paul. Tie rods are good, there is a bit of play in the steering
Box, but not much. I'm going to dial in the toe and I'll report back.

[bonacker]

I've always thought it best to replace ball joints in pairs (both top or both bottom). You didn't say why just one was replaced. Top ball joints wear less than bottom joints, so I'm sure you checked those already. As for the death wobble, it could be a combination of things, but tight suspension and steering parts along with an alignment should cure it. One thing to look at is how much play in the steering box and is the rag joint still good. Another possibility is a bent rim. Oh, and $160.00 for an alignment??? Wow, that is high. No other places to go to? Nearby town? It takes time, but keep at it and you'll nail it down.

[blown240]

Thanks for the reply. I only replaced the one ball joint because it was the only one that had play in it. All the joints have been replaced at some point before I got the truck.

There are other alignment shops, but none will work on a car this old. Ill get it as close as I can, and if necessary, save up and spent the $160.

[Evoracer]

Eberhardt's Fullerton, $95. It's where I got mine done...