Just bought a 454! Build Suggestions?

[JacobSchni]

So i just bought a 454 iv for $300 minus carb and some of the pulley setup. Just waiting for the guy to pull it from his truck. Im trying to plan how i want to build this. I think im gonna bore it to a 468. dont really want to spend a fortune on it. Id like to try and stay in or under the 5 grand range for a total. What recommendations would you have for a build. Its gonna be a street build, i wanna run on pump gas. block casting #10069286, head casting #14092360. Not sure about the heads. hear that they aren't the best for power. wanna be making close to 600 hp/low 500 ft/lb (realistic for the price?)

truck its going in.

[JacobSchni]

i have a t400 and a stall. not sure what the stall is i cant remember, last owner put in.

[nvrenuf]

Are you also converting from sbc to bbc? If so I don't think that's a realistic number.

I think it's very do-able to get 600 hp for $5k but if your converting there will be a lot of extra parts that will eat in to that same budget. Things like headers (and exhaust mods), a big carb, adequate fuel pump (and plumbing mods), radiator, motor mounts, parts to finish the accessory brackets, etc.. will all kill you on unplanned expenses.

[JacobSchni]

Ya it is a sbc right now. Thought the bbc bolt right in, in regards to motor mount and such. It comes with header (don't now if they will be too small). How much more would you think it would be?

[nvrenuf]

I'd budget another $2000-$2500 and maybe even come in high. I think those heads are peanut ports which will not support that kind of power (read: $$ different heads $$). The real killer is the snowball effect where you start buying pretty parts or cool parts that evolve in to really cool parts.

I'm not saying it can't be done for $5k but to do it RIGHT with a dependable 600 hp combo, you're going to spend a lot.

I'd suggest sitting on the $5k and get the motor torn down and checked by a machine shop. Once they know what you have vs the parts you need, you can put together a realistic budget for that goal.

[nvrenuf]

Btw, that is a damn nice truck!

[1968vetL-71]

That is a really nice looking truck!! WOW!!! Your best bet for spending that kind of money might just be looking at a crate motor? Fully done, drop in and go! Machine work alone in our area would be almost a third of your budget. Just definitely compare before your in too deep.

Also, I know there will be guys that chime in and say different but I'd really be concerned with 600hp under my belt and those stock 1/2 ton diffs!

Either way enjoy your build, and again... Beautiful truck!!

[Firebirdjones]

That kind of HP is easy with a 454 but when you set a budget things get pretty difficult.

When I built my 454, it had to be pump gas. So I ended up with $3200 AFR heads, a custom ground roller cam, 10.2:1 compression, a modified air gap intake and modified spacer, 950hp carb, all forged goodies in the bottom end. I made 638 hp and 612 tq. It likes RPM so can't be afraid to spin it. It would have made slightly more HP with a Victor Jr. intake but suffered on torque production below 3500 rpm. Being more of a street car I put slightly more emphasis on low rpm torque production and sacrificed a little HP.

I have it in a 4100 lbs. chevelle, it likes 2" primary headers, 4:10 gears, and a converter that flashes to 3600-ish rpm. It's capable of breaking stuff so the rest of the drivetrain has to be scienced out. It's still very streetable however, I drive it everywhere.

I've enjoyed this engine for years, cost WAY more than $5k to build, but it's not an engine I would enjoy in a 5,000 lbs + truck shaped like a brick.

The original 454 I built for my 79 pick up truck I went the other direction. Kept compression at 8.5:1 with heavy loads in mind (it's what I use it for, it's a truck after all) so I can run pump gas, get somewhat aggressive with timing without fear of detonation. I run a simple flat tappet 218 @ .050 cam with .460 lift and 112 LSA. Cam degreed in 4 degrees advance. Heads are original peanut port with pocket port work, paying most attention in the bowls, mild gasket match, good valve job etc... I run the original 79 intake with quite a bit of port work under the carb along with a modified spacer I like to use that has shown to make gains on the dyno. Original Q-jet dialed in, and distributor reworked. 1 3/4" headers. This isn't a big HP build but I had torque in mind, especially off idle. I didn't run this one on the dyno but if I had to guess in might make 350-360ish HP but the torque is closer to 500 ft lbs. easily. There is no need to spin it past 5500 rpm and makes a nice flat power curve up to that rpm, pulling strong, just what I wanted. It squirts this 5300 lbs. 1 ton pickup around very well, lays rubber and is a ball to drive. Put this engine in a little 3400 lbs car and you'd have a very fun little street car that is docile enough to drive daily. Matter of fact my wife drives this truck daily and it knocks down 14 mpg, with a 400 turbo and 3.73 gears.

I'm in the process now of building a 502, same AFR heads used on the chevelle, custom solid roller, pump gas, that should easily top the 700 hp mark. Street car build, but it's going to be a bit rambunctious. None of this stuff is cheap to do. Best of luck.

[nvrenuf]

I'm a hardcore big block lover BUT if I were starting from scratch like you I think I'd go for a hot LS swap. You should be able to find a nice set up within your budget and get the bonus of efi. Not sure if that series of motor will bolt up to your 400 though.

I agree with 1968vetL-71, you're going to shred that rear axle.

[Firebirdjones]

I do LS swaps here for customers as well as myself. An LS swap done properly will completely wipe out and go beyond his $5k budget.

By the time I find a nice used low mile 5.7 or 6.0 LS, do a custom harness, spend time tuning with HP tuner, revamp the entire fuel system properly with an "in-tank" pump setup and all new lines, not to mention all the fitment issues. You may as well do an electronic overdrive trans to take advantage of the computer you will already be running for the fuel injected motor, it only makes sense. In a 4x4 you'll be spending some coin with Advance Adapters to mate all that stuff together. Then you have the option of cooling fans, fabbing a custom air intake, exhaust fabrication, a custom cross member is needed (in the earlier trucks) and the list just goes on and on. It's not a swap for the faint of heart. I've gone over my own personal 6.0 swap in my 72 blazer many times in the past on here. It's very involved to do one properly and make things look factory. I quickly dropped $7500 in parts alone in the swap before it was done. Not including my labor. In the end it was still a stock LQ4 with nothing modified other than a custom SD tune.
It ran decent, with 3.73's and 33" tires it clicked off 14.30's and was a ball to drive. I have video of it here somewhere putting a hurtin' on a new 2010 SS Camaro at the time. Funny stuff.

[kdh454]

$5k is going to be a tight budget for 600HP. You will need to find some good deals on used parts and do some work yourself to accomplish your goal.

First, as mentioned above, tear the block down and have your machinist check it out. He should be able to tell you what work needs to be done and give you an accurate quote. If it is in decent shape, I would expect to spend $500-$750 on the block alone. If the heads you acquire need work or you want the shop to assemble the engine for you, it is going to be several hundred more.

That leaves about $4k or less in parts to work with.

I would start with a 496 rotating assembly. By the time you have your factory parts reconditioned and buy new pistons and rings, it doesn't cost much more. SCAT and Eagle make cast (no need for forged at this power level) rotating assemblies for around $1500. Using iron heads is going to limit your max CR on pump gas to around 9:1. You may get away with a little more if you plan to run 92 octane.

$2,500 left.

Heads. Forget about aluminum with this budget, even a used set would likely be too pricey. I would suggest looking for a set of 049 oval port heads. Chevy made a ton of those things and they can be had for a couple hundred dollars per set. Again, have your machinist check them out before spending any money or time on them. Have the shop install larger valves (2.19/1.88 or so). You can do some minor blending yourself, just do your research and don't go crazy with it. Some milling may be required to reach your target CR. In all, you will be into the heads $750 or so.

$1,750 left.

Cam/lifters/springs. Use some restraint and don't go too big on the cam. The 496 will allow you to get away with a larger cam than a 454 but don't go too big or you will end up sacrificing torque and drive-ability for unusable top end power. A hydraulic cam kit will run close to $400.

$1,250 left.

Carb. 850cfm, vacuum secondary would be a good fit. A new Holley will run you $550. Used carbs are a gamble if you are not good with them but there is an opportunity to save some cash here.

$700 left.

You still need headers, an intake (dual plane), possibly an ignition system (stock HEI is fine), seals, bearings, etc. Look for good deals on used parts where possible.


I think that is about as good as you can do for your budget. Will it make 600HP? I doubt it, but it should be 500+ HP with tons of torque.

Good luck.

[JacobSchni]

I'm planning on 1 ton axles. Just gotta find them. A close by neighbor might have a set

[68c10owner]

So you budgeted $5000 for the engine but you didnt account for the upgrades required for the HP goal. THe transmission is going to need some upgrades and will need a stall converter specificly picked for your set up. Reusing the one you have may work but could also be way too much. A 2500 stall behind a mild 350 could be close to 4000 stall with a 600hp bbc. Dont forget your transfer case. Im not a 4wd guy but I know there are some out there in the mid 80`s that would break pretty easy with stock 350`s if worked too hard.

Then you will need to upgrade the fuel system. 600hp is going to need soem fuel. I wouldnt run less than a 1/2 line with that much power. You dont want to starve it for fuel.

Then the axles. Sounds like you have a plan for those but you still got to budget for them. The ones you find may need a rebuild. Dont forget wheels as the 1 ton is going to have a different bolt pattern.

So your $5000 budget is looking pretty thin right now. Im a old school guy but even I can see the LS swap makes much more sense than trying to build a bbc these days. Look for a 6.0 or 6.2, install a cam, maybe some ported heads, get a tune and you are almost there.

If you want to go bbc still then your best bet is to do a 496 stroker. You can find a good deal on them. Id look for a small dome or even a flat top rotating assembly. Then find some 781 or 049 heads to work with. Put some 2.25/1.88 valves, bowl work, gasket match, may have to do some chamber unshrouding for the 2.25 valve but its worth it. For a camshaft I would use this,

http://www.claysmithcams.com/bbc-454...x-of-5700-rpm/

It`s proven to make strong torque in strokers and will work great in your build. Chris Straub designed them for Clay Smith. Google him is you dont know who he is.

Wont make your 600hp goal but should be damn close to 600ftlbs or torque and thats what you really need.

[Firebirdjones]

Have you checked with any high end machine shops yet? I'm talking not only a place known for quality work but also one that has an in house dyno. A shop like that should have a pretty good idea of certain combinations that work. If you approach them with your goals they should be able to tell you what it's going to take in both parts and money. That's probably the first step I would suggest.

I find myself that by the time I'm done at a quality shop, I've spent about $600-$700 on block work alone (clean, magnaflux, align hone, deck, bore and hone with torque plates)
Used cylinder heads I've never gotten out any cheaper than $800 but they usually run over $1,000. By the time they clean and magnaflux, mill (usually a clean up pass) new guides, new seats, and in most cases new valves are needed, machine heads for positive seals, new springs/retainers/keepers. Stuff adds up quick to do a set of heads properly so you don't have an oil sucker. Skimp anywhere on the valve guide and valve stem area and it won't matter how good the valve seals are, you'll have an oil burner, making everything a waste of time. Stay away from places that want to knurl guides and such.

Crank work is around $200, and reconditioning old rods I rarely do anymore, but in those instances, by the time I do ARP bolts (about $70 alone) and magnafluxing rods and resizing big ends I have about $200 tied up in 40 year old rods. Not my idea of cost productive. Then you pay $500 or more for a good set of forged pistons, then balance it all. You can have $1000 tied up in the rotating assembly pretty quick. Makes those stroker rotating assembly kits look much more appealing doesn't it
Keep in mind that even though most of those rotating assemblies claim to be balanced, I've never had one that didn't need more balancing. Most quality machine shops will tell you the same thing, and it pays to spin them up and check them.

All this work, and finding good quality work, sadly is what makes crate engines so appealing. But those of us wanting a specialty build, numbers matching etc...are forced to find the few good machine shops that are still around.

[ptc]

Im a BBC guy tried and true and would stay there any day than going to the LS route.

Had a 468 built for a boat that worked real well with just port matching work on a twin 660 carbed tunnel ram and iron 990 heads - was doing about 600 hp on pump gas flat tops, chevy forged rotating assembly.

Upgraded it to a stroker 496 now with the same top end, ported iron 990 heads with bigger carbs (twin 850DP), Crower complete rotating assembly and about 10.5:1 - 17cc dome pistons ans still running 91 octane and getting a bit over 700hp. all engine work came to about $3400 just 3 years ago. Prices are changing but I still think you'd be miles ahead with the BBC.

I have a set of 088 Rectangular port heads (off a 502) that will work for a Gen IV BBC. These are good iron heads, 118cc chambers and 2.18 / 1.88 stainless valves already double springed for a hydraulic roller cam. I have the mild cam and roller lifters too if you need them.

Building a 509 for my truck right now as we speak for some 700+ street/strip horsepower.

[Jake Wade]

I think you would be way ahead going with this guy:

http://www.vortecproperformance.com/...binations.html

Excellent reputation, top notch builds. Great price.

[JacobSchni]

Will the iv bolt up to the t400 or no.

[AZ-K2077]

I would do a 496 use factory oval 781 or 049 heads. With the right cam it can make a ton of power on pump gas. You are going to still most likely be over budget.

If you up the budget 600 plus is easy with a bbc. I have a 468 2 bolt block forged crank solid lifter cam with dart pro 1heads. It made just over 640hp with a 850. The compression was right at 11.1 to much for pump gas but its in my v-drive boat. But lots of good combos on the web to look at.

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by JacobSchni

Will the iv bolt up to the t400 or no.

All sbc and bbc engines have the same bell housing bolt pattern. Do you have much experience with performance engines?

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by ptc

Im a BBC guy tried and true and would stay there any day than going to the LS route.

Had a 468 built for a boat that worked real well with just port matching work on a twin 660 carbed tunnel ram and iron 990 heads - was doing about 600 hp on pump gas flat tops, chevy forged rotating assembly.

Upgraded it to a stroker 496 now with the same top end, ported iron 990 heads with bigger carbs (twin 850DP), Crower complete rotating assembly and about 10.5:1 - 17cc dome pistons ans still running 91 octane and getting a bit over 700hp. all engine work came to about $3400 just 3 years ago. Prices are changing but I still think you'd be miles ahead with the BBC.

I have a set of 088 Rectangular port heads (off a 502) that will work for a Gen IV BBC. These are good iron heads, 118cc chambers and 2.18 / 1.88 stainless valves already double springed for a hydraulic roller cam. I have the mild cam and roller lifters too if you need them.

Building a 509 for my truck right now as we speak for some 700+ street/strip horsepower.

Are these numbers from actual dyno runs or just guessing?

[JacobSchni]

I don't have much experience. And none of my family or friends can help due to lack of interest. I can vary with budget, but I'd like to stay close. I have a t400 and 205 with a (I think 3200 stall)

[JacobSchni]

Nit saying I need it over 600 just mid to hight 500 if possible and I have headers the guys giving me. But they seem kinda small for a rebuild

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by JacobSchni

I don't have much experience. And none of my family or friends can help due to lack of interest. I can vary with budget, but I'd like to stay close. I have a t400 and 205 with a (I think 3200 stall)

Wasn't trying to be a jerk. You seemed pretty new and I just wanted to get a idea of your experience. I wouldn't shoot for 600 hp right out of the gate. But a strong torque combo and you will have a blast. Check into Mark Jones, VORTECPRO that Jake mentioned. I know of his from another forum and he knows his stuff. He even has a peanut port combo that runs strong.

[mud.man.rj]

Nice part of small to big block is most everything will still bolt up the same, engine will sit a bit taller, trans will bolt right up but the 3,200 stall will stall a bit higher around 3,400-3,500 which is great in a 2wd not a 4wd, moving a lot more weight and now with the big block will have a huge difference in torque so drop down to a 2,500 which will stall @ 2,700 perfect for the weight of the truck plus with the torque difference will have quite a bottom end advantage, but poor diffs won't last long. will have to baby them till you can upgrade, they are called projects for a reason right..one step at a time.

[JacobSchni]

Will do. Thanks