Long wheel base vs dually...

[Tusky]

Let's say for instance I have a choice between two 79 model trucks. Both had the same engine, tranmission and rearend. Both being a regular cab. Truck go constantly tow a 5500 lb trailer.

Which truck would tow my car better on long trips hours away from home?

Truck A- long wheel base 79 model chevy truck such a "Big 10" or "Heavy Half".

Truck B- dually regular cab * i think the one I spotted is a short wheel base but again I know it's a dually.

I know/heard people say a long wheel base truck drives 10x better than a short wheel base. I never drove a long wheel base pick up. I also hear guys complaing about parking a long wheel base pick up. Heard it's a pain in the butt. Never really hear negative about dually trucks.
Purpose of the truck is to have a truck I can depend on and be reliable when towing my camaro to the LS fest yearly in bowling green or towing down to Lousiana to race. I'll be towing 4 times year but long hauling. Thanks for your thoughts and opinions as always.

[slotard]

All duallys are LWB (either SCLB or CCLB). If it's single cab it's the exact same length as the C10, just wider (and likely a bit taller). I'm not sure you need a dually for a trailer that light, but I'd prefer something with a decent trans. TH350 or the 3 speed manual I wouldn't really want for towing a 5500lb trailer, TH400/SM465 would work or if swapped 4L80E works great and has overdrive.

I don't think there was a Longhorn square, that's the only way I can think of that a C10 would be longer than a C30.

[Firebirdjones]

Longer the wheel base the better, but like already mentioned, what you are looking at are already what is considered the long wheel base.

Easy choice for me. I'm not a fan of duallys, I don't want to buy the extra tires, I don't like the extra room it needs to park and/or turn, plus I keep all my cars indoors, and even though I could fit a dually in the garage I prefer not to, they take up more room.

For towing, even just 4-5 times a year, I'd recommend more than a big 10 or heavy half. I'd at least be looking at 3/4 tons with a big block and 400 turbo. Just my preference. It will handle the weight better, less sway on the highway, and the big block will pull the grades easier.

I've crisscrossed the country in my 79 1 ton single rear wheel while pulling my 28 foot enclosed. It's a single cab, so same wheel base you're looking at. Loaded I'm pulling 10,000 lbs. and the truck does a wonderful job of pulling. The 454/400 combo with 3.73's handles the hills without much trouble. It yanks around my 16' flat bed trailer with a 4,000 lbs. car on it like it's not even back there.

As far as turning and parking, this wheel base with a single rear wheel and single cab is about as good as it gets if you still want something under you to tow with. It's easy to drive, it the same as your basic full size trucks of that era. My wife drives it daily and has no trouble at all with it.

I also have an 05 duramax, crew cab, single rear wheel with a 6.5' bed. Wheel base is stretched on that one quite a bit compared to my 79. It doesn't turn nearly as sharp and is much more difficult to park, especially in tight lots. Even though the truck overall is only about 1.5' longer than my 79, so size isn't a problem, but GM stretched the wheel base out on it for more stability (front and rear wheels are closer to the ends of the truck), so it takes more room to maneuver.

[68 CRACKERBOX]

any c30 dually is longer 135 or 159 wb a c10/20 longbed is 131wb.I would think the c30 would be overkill for what you want to do.there is nothing hard about parking a reg longbed truck they are shorter than newer clubcab and four door short bed trucks. dually are harder to get around because they are wider.

[Keith Seymore]

Plus - a dually can't go through an automatic car wash - and - people tend to smash the rear fenders on posts and things during momentary lapses of attention.

K

[Tusky]

Very very interesting... I'm learning.I love hearing the different outlooks and experiences with esch wheelbase or width. Do you recommend leaving the 454 stock ? Reason I'm go build this truck cause I hate to bother or ask people to use they truck. I rather have my own. For comfort I'll install a avalache seat. How do you guys feel about a LS swap square body for towing? Such as a 6.0 motor.....

[slotard]

Originally Posted by 68 CRACKERBOX

any c30 dually is longer 135 or 159 wb a c10/20 longbed is 131wb.I would think the c30 would be overkill for what you want to do.there is nothing hard about parking a reg longbed truck they are shorter than newer clubcab and four door short bed trucks. dually are harder to get around because they are wider.

Interesting, I didn't realize the dually was a longer wheelbase than a normal long bed. I don't see anything about that in the GM Heritage Center PDF I'm looking at: https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/doc...olet-Truck.pdf

[slotard]

Originally Posted by Tusky

Very very interesting... I'm learning.I love hearing the different outlooks and experiences with esch wheelbase or width. Do you recommend leaving the 454 stock ? Reason I'm go build this truck cause I hate to bother or ask people to use they truck. I rather have my own. For comfort I'll install a avalache seat. How do you guys feel about a LS swap square body for towing? Such as a 6.0 motor.....

I've seen claims that the 6.0 doesn't get much better mileage than a 454 when worked hard, but don't have any personal experience. At a minimum I think an overdrive tranny (probably 4L80E) would be a huge upgrade. Whether or not an LS is worth it depends a lot on what year you get, some engines were total smog dogs while others were good. I'd also consider a 6BT, which I wouldn't want in a 1/2 ton and a 1 ton would be a better choice than a 3/4.

I agree that it's nice to have your own truck, that's why I have mine... mostly for taking motorcycles to the track.

[Tusky]

What is a 6BT? Sorry for asking I'm a rookie in the truck department. A pro at making a LS motor take flight.

[slotard]

6BT is a Cummins diesel engine found in Dodges (among other things).

[Firebirdjones]

Tusky,
I've done the 6.0 swap in another truck, plus my father has a pair of 3/4 tons with the 6.0, a 2002 model and a new 2015 model.

We've towed the same trailers with all of them. I can tell you for a fact, even though the 6.0 doesn't do too bad towing, it's not even close to having the grunt of my old 79 454. We both pulled our 16' trailers with 4,000 lbs A-bodies on them and every time we hit a grade I'd run away from him. I'd have to slow out on the flats so he could catch back up. He got to the point he was mashing the pedal and the trans hunting for gears to maintain speed on the hills with me. Not my idea of an ideal tow rig.

If you don't do much towing, and it's mostly on flat ground, they do an okay job, but they don't have the grunt down low for pulling some of the grades.

I can also tell you an LS swap is not a cheap endeavor, be prepared to sink some coin in it to do it right.

And Slotard is right, they aren't any better on gas than my old 454 is. He used just as much gas as I did pulling the same weight. When the trucks are empty, I'm also right on par with his mileage and sometimes just a tick under. I get 14 mpg on the open road with my 454, my fathers 2015 6.0 with it's overdrive has tickled 15 mpg but usually gets 14.xx So they are pretty close. His 2002 model with the 6.0 usually gets about 13-14 so it's not quite as good as his 2015 model.

As far as a stock 454 goes, I've had mine for 20 years and 17 of those mine was a bone stocker. I used it for towing and it did just fine. No real reason to bump up the power unless you want to.
I ran a 502 in it for a couple years, then rebuilt the original 454 and reinstalled it. It now has some very mild upgrades all geared towards making more torque. It pulls fantastic for a 36 year old truck.

[Tusky]

Firebirdjones I'll love to see a pic of your truck. Sounds like a beast. It's just HARD to believe a 6.0 drinks that much gas compared to a old 454ci. It's almost a 100 cubic inch difference there. That's just simply amazing. I work nights. I'll chime back in later. Thread is getting good.

[GM72K10]

Originally Posted by slotard

Interesting, I didn't realize the dually was a longer wheelbase than a normal long bed. I don't see anything about that in the GM Heritage Center PDF I'm looking at: https://www.gmheritagecenter.com/doc...olet-Truck.pdf

A dually K30/C30 pickup has the same wheelbase as a c10 c20 which is 131.5
Cab and chassis duallys have the longer wheelbases, 135.5, 159

[slotard]

That's about what I figured for wheelbase.

I'm surprised that the 6.0 isn't much better on gas empty, I can understand why when towing because it's worked harder... what's the gearing like?

[Firebirdjones]

Tusky, I'll dig up a picture, I have them here stored somewhere. Had the truck forsale over summer but decided to keep it for a while. My wife daily drives it until I get her new car road worthy. I may put it up for sale in the spring, don't know yet.

Yeah that gas mileage empty I wasn't impressed with. I do know the factory tunes on the trucks are very conservative. The timing tables look horrible from a performance standpoint with some high load areas in the single digits and even zero. GM does this for warranty claim reasons I'm sure, knowing what these trucks are subject to.

Both of my fathers 6.0 trucks have 4.10 gears, and they have overdrives. The 2002 has a 4L80E and the 2015 has the new 6L60 or 80 (what ever it is) that is a 6 speed overdrive automatic.

My 79 454/400 turbo has 3.73's and I run the stock 9.5x16.5 tires on it (31" tall) I can cruise 65 mph comfortable in it at about 2700-ish rpm, and bump it up to 70 mph doesn't seem to affect the mileage it gets.
I know both of my fathers trucks can cruise at considerably less rpm but for some reason they don't seem to benefit on the MPG figures.

I do know a tune will wake those engines up. When I did the 6.0 swap in my 4x4 blazer I used the truck computer, did my own custom SD tune using a wideband. It made a tremendous difference in how that truck ran. I had a 4L60E behind it, 3.73's and 33" tires and that thing clicked off 14.30's at the track and MPG jumped big time. I got 17 mpg around town on a regular basis and 22 on the highway on some occasions. That blazer weighed almost exactly 5,000 lbs. with no one in it.
So I think if the tune is tinkered with you can find a lot of MPG in those 6.0 trucks, and I'll probably tune my fathers eventually.
To be fare my old 79 is dialed in perfectly with the wideband, AFR is spot on, distributor recurved, adjustable vacuum advance etc...It runs crisp and gets respectable mileage for what it is. It still has to loaf around 5300 lbs. though, it's a brick

[mcmlxix]

For long haul I would find a crew-cab (for more cabin room) NON-dually (less tires and associated space) big block 2wd truck. Track down a gear vendor over drive box to put behind the TH400 and add an EFI Like MSD Atomic or Holley Terminator.

You can also go 4L80e and one of the EFI kits with trans controller...

[Tusky]

So a 454ci would be my BEST way out? When I hook the trailer up on the truck I want it to snatch the Z28 down the highway and have plenty of passing power. I don't want a motor/setup that barely gets the job done. Also what is y'all thoughts on the 383 HT motor ?

[mcmlxix]

Emissions killed HP so depending on you local laws will also depend on what you can do.
a TH400 / Gear Vender OD give you 6 forward gears...
4L80e gives you 4 forward gears
Two things I've heard:
"No replacement for displacement"
HP for top speed. Torque for moving heavy stuff

[Tusky]

Mississippi isn't strict at all. We have trucks running around here with no cats and glasspacks.

[Firebirdjones]

Well, like I mentioned my choice would be a big block but that's just me. I've had small block trucks, fine to drive, not so fine in my opinion to tow with. They do work and get the job done, but if you want passing power, and the ability to climb grades without loosing much speed, then you won't be happy with a small block.

A big inch small block like a 383ht might do fairly well. Haven't had one of those so can't comment with certainty. I've had 400 small blocks, 350's, and a couple of newer LS 6.0's. As far as gas engines go, I still prefer my 454 for an all around "truck" engine that will do everything well. I have a truck to use as a truck when I need a truck, I have cars for toys, that's how I look at it. I wouldn't say that engine is your best choice, ultimately that is up to you and what fits your needs best.

Emissions on a truck like mine (79 454) wasn't much to speak of. GM didn't put cat converters on them back then because the truck was rated over 9,000 GVW. The only emissions equipment it had was a smog pump and that was it. It also came factory with a dual exhaust system. They are low compression (8:1) with very small cams in them. So yeah, not much for HP but they make grunt right off idle, that's what you really want in a truck that you are towing with, especially in a truck that weighs 5300 lbs. when it's empty. I simply removed the smog pump, installed small 1 3/4" headers, and a performer intake manifold, left the rest stock but with tweaks to the carb and distributor and it squirted around nicely, towed with plenty of grunt, and even embarrassed the occasional fox body 5.0 mustangs that were running around at the time. With those simple mods done the truck served me perfectly for about 17 years. I recently rebuilt the original engine however with a few more mild changes.
However it's hard to find a nice 3/4 or 1-ton truck from the 70's with a 454 nowadays that hasn't been run to death or rusted. You might have to open up your options a bit to find something suitable.

[Firebirdjones]

Here's a couple of pics you requested. Not so good pics. I need to get it out and take some better pictures one of these days. Not sure how long they'll stay, I still have goofy issues with photobucket.

[Tusky]

Thanks. Not sure where you're located at but here in the great state of Mississippi it's PLENTY of 73-87 trucks sitting in yards on backroads/county roads. Finding one for a good deal will be the challenge.

[Tusky]

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Here's a couple of pics you requested. Not so good pics. I need to get it out and take some better pictures one of these days. Not sure how long they'll stay, I still have goofy issues with photobucket.

Wow!! So much want!! What a nice rig you have right there.

[Firebirdjones]

Lol, thanks. It has a few scratches in it, and a couple of door dings, but it's original paint, after 36 years it's held up well.

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Tusky,
I've done the 6.0 swap in another truck, plus my father has a pair of 3/4 tons with the 6.0, a 2002 model and a new 2015 model.

His 2002 model with the 6.0 usually gets about 13-14 so it's not quite as good as his 2015 model..

I'm not sure what gearing he had, but I have had a couple of 6.0 trucks and two Yukon Denalis. All of them got better MPG than that on average. I consistently got 16-17 until I put a tall trailer behind them. That did kill it down to 11-12 average.

If you really want a modern motor, take a look at the 8.1 conversion.