Are my headers over heating my starter?

[Ed F]

My '70 C10 350 is the only vehicle I have ever had headers on. They were on it when I bought it and I plan to change back to manifolds eventually. Not always, but frequently when the truck has been running for a while and I shut it off, the starter rolls over slowly like the battery is low. Let it sit for 15-20 minutes or more and it fires right up. I have replaced the starter twice and now have a heavy duty starter on it. I installed a new battery and battery cables and have a ground strap from the firewall to the engine. Are the headers possibly overheating the starter? If so what are you guys with headers doing to eliminate this situation? As always thanks in advance for the help

[leddzepp]

I wrapped my starter and solenoid, problem solved. I have full length headers and had the same issue.

[Grumpy old man]

Yes , One more reason headers aren't always the best idea.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mo...FYKBaQodgPcFiw

[Fldawg]

same here, i'm fighting the probelm right now, but my starter has heat soak so i changed it. wrapping it or the headers are the way to go. but i'm staying with headers, probably change to sandreson mid length headers

[davepl]

If it still cranks, then yes, you'll be able to improve it with thermal insulation. If you get into a "does absolutely nothing" with no click, that's a bad connection via the purple solenoid wire.

[firedemon]

more than likely yes heat killing it but a homemade sheetmetal shield will fix that but could be a ground issue too run a small battery cable from one of the starter bolts to the negative battery cable directly where it mounts to your block try heatshield first

[Ed F]

I knew there would good advice here. I like the idea of a metal shield but what are you guys wrapping the starter with?

Thanks for the help!!!

[Grumpy old man]

One of these or similar . Google - GMstarterheatshields for many different options .

http://www.corvettemods.com/1968-198...ld_p_7836.html

[Gromit]

I tried the shield and the wrap. I ended up taking off the shield - it was such a tight fit (basically it was a contact fit between the header and solenoid) and was very close to shorting against the outside solenoid wire connector. I may put it back - am now just running the wrap for now and not driving enough to give it a workout but no problems yet.

I bought the OER original equipment type shield from summit, and with that one you need to have the rear starter brace as well as a special nut of some kind that is hard to find and expensive (for a nut - I think like $10).

Also got the 50 foot roll of 1" fiberglass wrap from Summit ($20)

It took three rolls to do both headers with some left over that you can use on other lines.

Then you need the silicone based heat paint (1 can) like VHT to protect and lock down the wrap once it is installed, and 16 each of 1-1/2" to 2" hose clamps and two 3" to 4" hose clamps for the collector ends. I tried the stainless zip ties and those were too tricky to get locked properly for me anyway

It took me a few hours to wrap each header - I thought of just wrapping the starter side but I think that might create other issues with tuning - helpful thing would be to have a way to mount the header where you can easily access to wrap and also pull on the tape without the header moving around.

Photos attached..

[Grumpy old man]

Or you can just put rams horn stock exhaust and be done with it .They flow just as good as headers up to like 5,000 rpm and don't leak.

[franken]

Just as likely its the wiring as it is heat. Ground the engine to the battery. The only purpose of the big cables is to run the starter.
Take some voltage measurements.

[lovemy71s]

We ran into this on dads big block with headers. Made ground cables from the engine to frame and from battery right to the same spot. We ended up getting a high torque mini starter off of summit, not sure the brand, think its a hitachi or something like that, I think they cost about 150. Problem solved so I did it on my small block too. Dads toner with big block is daily driver and gets about 10k on it a year, it is our service truck and it hasn't been a problem now for about 6 years I think since we just bit the bullet and got a new starter. Sorry for rambling.
Heres the one I used on both. Mixed reviews on summit but working really well for me
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-829000

[special-K]

2 1/2" rams horns make almost as much power as headers. I've had more issue with manifolds as headers. I hate messing with donut gaskets and manifold studs.

When I have heat soak issues I get nothing at all when I turn the key. Dump water from the cooler on the starter and it starts right up. I ran a whole summer that way. I'd pop the hood to let heat out on short stops and sometimes that helped on quicker stops. It was real quick, leave run, or figure on hanging out a bit. I never had a slow crank issue from heat soak...all or nothing. my issue was the collector gasket was leaking. I let it go since I planned on new headers. That was the only gasket issue I had with those. They went on (El Cheapos) in '89 and ran trouble free till '04. The only reason I had to put those on is because we were on a trip in Arizona from Maryland in it and one of the exhaust manifolds blew out. No manifolds could be found in northern AZ

[GASoline71]

I've ran headers on every single gas rig I've ever owned except my '06 Silverado K2500.

I have never had the heat soak issue with Chevy starters and solenoids. I must be lucky.

Gary

[Sklptrljay]

Get a $7 relay at the parts store and bypass the ignition circuit. I can tell you it fixed my heat soak, never had one issue since I put it in.

[leddzepp]

Problem solved. Thermal wrap from auto zone, $25. I cut a small piece for the solenoid, then a large piece for the whole starter (so the solenoid is "double insulated). I drive it daily and work it like a truck, it starts every time zero issues. No need to wrap the headers. A mini starter will also solve your problem, if you have the $, I would go that route.

[Ed F]

This site is so great! Thanks for all the input. It's nice to know Iam not alone. I think I will wrap the starter for now. Eventually I will go back to manifolds and all new exhaust. The po put "new exhaust" on it but cut way too many corners. It hangs down under the frame due to muffler location and exits in front of the rear wheels. It has short turbo mufflers that don't sound good at all. I have a 327 on the shelf that has manifolds on it. I have to move some stuff to get at it to see what condition those are in. Am I right in thinking that some stock manifolds are 2" and some are 2 1/2"? Is there a noticeable difference between the two? The truck is fairly stock and I drive like the old man that Iam but I do tow with it. The input and pictures are great, thanks a bunch.

[cruisinthe34]

I solved my issue with a Mini High output starter on my '34

[special-K]

It could be low voltage to starter or your starter is just on it's way out, losing efficiency meaning demanding more power than your system can offer. Could be caused by the heat from headers, but my point is it sounds more like the starter going bad or a connection issue. I had a bad neutral safety switch cause intermittent starting issues. I did a starter, battery, redid connections at starter, was about to do an ignition switch,and finally thought, "Oh yeah, neutral safety switch is between switch and starter. That was the culprit and would explain sometimes worked/sometimes not so well/sometimes nothing.

[drewbert41]

I bought the spectre sbc starter heat shield when I bought my headers after reading about people having issues with the solenoid overheating. The heat shield is double walled and it cost like 15 bucks. I was going to try to fab one but it is just such a tight space that I would rather just spend $15.

Amazon.com: Spectre Performance 4370 Stainless...

[Ed F]

Originally Posted by drewbert41

I bought the spectre sbc starter heat shield when I bought my headers after reading about people having issues with the solenoid overheating. The heat shield is double walled and it cost like 15 bucks. I was going to try to fab one but it is just such a tight space that I would rather just spend $15.

Amazon.com: Spectre Performance 4370 Stainless Steel Starter Heat Shield: Automotive

That looks good to me and your experience convinced me. Thanks for the link, I just ordered one. It's 17* here today with 8" of fresh snow and coming down at a rate of about 2" per hour, expected to continue until tomorrow morning. So the C10 isn't going anywhere for at least another month (when I open the door on that garage to get the snowblower out, the C10 just shivers and says please don't take me outside. Yes my truck talks to me, don't even try to tell me that yours doesn't talk). So the heat shield will be added to the nice accumulation of parts gathering on the passenger side floor until warmer weather. Is forum is awesome!

[Ed F]

Originally Posted by drewbert41

I bought the spectre sbc starter heat shield when I bought my headers after reading about people having issues with the solenoid overheating. The heat shield is double walled and it cost like 15 bucks. I was going to try to fab one but it is just such a tight space that I would rather just spend $15.

Amazon.com: Spectre Performance 4370 Stainless Steel Starter Heat Shield: Automotive

That looks good to me and your experience convinced me. Thanks for the link, I just ordered one. It's 17* here today with 8" of fresh snow and coming down at a rate of about 2" per hour, expected to continue until tomorrow morning. So the C10 isn't going anywhere for at least another month (when I open the door on that garage to get the snowblower out, the C10 just shivers and says please don't take me outside. Yes my truck talks to me, don't even try to tell me that yours doesn't talk). So the heat shield will be added to the nice accumulation of parts gathering on the passenger side floor until warmer weather. This forum is awesome!

[drewbert41]

I too have a pile of acquired parts waiting for the snow to melt

[Ruscal]

Ed,
The wrap, and sheet metal shields do work. Make sure your ground wire is sized to match your positive cable. Skinny grounds lead to labored starting.
Bigger cables = more volts.
We just solved a slow starting problem on a LS7 powered vehicle. It turned out to be a ground cable attached to an anodized aluminum starter adaptor. The anodizing acted as an insulator! Who knew..
Russ

[Ed F]

Originally Posted by Ruscal

Ed,
The wrap, and sheet metal shields do work. Make sure your ground wire is sized to match your positive cable. Skinny grounds lead to labored starting.
Bigger cables = more volts.
We just solved a slow starting problem on a LS7 powered vehicle. It turned out to be a ground cable attached to an anodized aluminum starter adaptor. The anodizing acted as an insulator! Who knew..
Russ

Russ
Thanks for the input. Iam making notes on all these suggestions so I will have them come spring.