poppin out?

[jewels.]

my little truck was havin some problems lately.... she's POPPIN out.....

the first time, it only happened once the entire trip - about 250 miles of driving....

but then the last time i drove about the same distance, and it did it about six or seven times....

i get up to a good highway speed of 70-75 mph....
there is usually a strong vibration at that speed - not a bad vibration - just a typical driving vibration....

and then all of a sudden, the vibration will stop.... the truck will drive EXTREMELY smooth, and then a minute later - POP - the transmission will kick the shifter out of 3rd gear into neutral.... (its a 3-on-tree)

its definitely a significant shove from the tranny - almost a 'chunk' - causing the shifter to go into neutral.... i can feel it in the shifter when it does it.... (cause i kept my hand on it, when i would try and duplicate the problem)

but it will only POP out of gear when i do 70-75, and only once the vibration goes away (suddenly, but smoothly)....

it will NOT do this if i drive 65mph, because at that speed, the 'vibration' never dissappears.... (strange)

so - is this a clutch problem? (i have never replaced my clutch)....
is this a tranny problem? is something worn in my 3-sp-on tree? its a very strange thing....

on a side note, the first time it happened (when it POPPED), it scared the **** out of me because i felt the chunk from the tranny, and thought for sure something had broken, and i would be stuck on the side of the road.... but then i discovered it had just come out of gear.... (which made me breathe a sigh of relief! whew!)

suggestions? comments? solutions?
thanks!
jewels.

[CPNE]

I'm not an expert, but from what I've read, any time a tranny exhibits this behavior it's usually a sign the tranny is wearing out.

[SWEET7T]

Is this vibration a new thing? If it is, check to see if your tranny mount bolts are tight, and that the mount isn't broken.

[jewels.]

Originally posted by CPNE
I'm not an expert, but from what I've read, any time a tranny exhibits this behavior it's usually a sign the tranny is wearing out.

oooohhhh nooooooo!!! i certainly hope not --- but the tranny IS the only thing i havent done anything to on the truck.... aside from the steering (knock on wood)....

Originally posted by CPNE
Is this vibration a new thing? If it is, check to see if your tranny mount bolts are tight, and that the mount isn't broken.

hmmm - thats a tough one to answer.... is it a new vibration? i would probably answer 'No'... but see - its always vibrated... but after i went to the ohio meet, and we
1. replaced the points with HEI, and
2. tightened the steering column up (it was loose), and
3. adjusted the clutch pedal (it was low), and
4. tightened up the 3-on-tree linkage,
the vibrations (that were always in the truck) became really really obvious....
so then, i replaced the front and rear U-joints, which lessened the vibrations overall in the truck.... it lessened the vibrations to the point where it vibrates now....

like i said, the vibration doesnt seem like a BAD vibration - just a high RPM, runnin at top speed, runnin hard vibration.....

at least the vibration doesnt seem bad until it suddenly goes quiet... (just before it pops out)....

hmmm - maybe i am gonna have to take a mechanic for a ride in it soon.... cause its really strange..... but i certainly HOPE its not the tranny... HOPE HOPE HOPE HOPE (knock on wood)

i will be sure to look at my tranny mounts tonight when i get home from work....

jewels.

[tom hand]

I usally love it when girls are "poppin out" but this time it is not good. At the very least you have wear in your pilot bushing and input shaft bearing. If you take the trans to a shop right now it might not be too bad price wise if you pull the trans yourself.[plz post pisc...lol] The last time I had the bearings changed in a three speed it was under a hundred bucks but don't be surprised if they find other problems while they are in there. The longer you wait the more it will cost, and you might as well change the clutch while you have it out...good luck

[jewels.]

Originally posted by tom hand
I usally love it when girls are "poppin out" but this time it is not good. At the very least you have wear in your pilot bushing and input shaft bearing. If you take the trans to a shop right now it might not be too bad price wise if you pull the trans yourself.[plz post pisc...lol] The last time I had the bearings changed in a three speed it was under a hundred bucks but don't be surprised if they find other problems while they are in there. The longer you wait the more it will cost, and you might as well change the clutch while you have it out...good luck

oh - you sound like a tranny expert.... really? so i should take it to a tranny shop, and have them look at it? cool! i can do that! COOL!!!!

thanks!
jewels.

[tom hand]

Well I would spend a little time doing some research before you just carry it to a tranny shop. Very few shops do manuals and if you carry it to one that doesn't they will "farm it out" to one that does. You will save a ton of money if you pull it yourself. Usally the best shop to carry a manual trans to, is a shop that does nothing but manuals

[jewels.]

ok - good advice

i can definitely pull the sucker myself....

cool... thanks! boy - i hope there isnt too much wrong! but i always believe in routine maintenance....

jewels.

[CPNE]

Another alternative is to locate a replacement tranny. If you get one that is low mileage from a trusted source you may save some $$. If it's the old non-syncro'd 67/68 tranny (4 bolts on fork cover) then you'll need a pre-69 tranny (early 60-s up to 68) to have it fit withyour driveshaft and shift linkage. If it;s the 69-up (7 bolts on cover)you'll have a bigger selection as it was used up thru early 80's I believe.

3 speeds are manageable to remove, 4 speeds weight a ton!

[oldsub86]

My 4Runner pops out of first gear sometimes. The concensus on the Toyota board appears to be worn synchros and or bearings. I would suggest it is time to pull the transmission and either rebuild it or change to a different transmission. There must be used 3 speed tranny's around reasonably cheap - or maybe something a bit newer with an overdrive gear to lower your rpm's on the highway and improve the mileage at the same time. If you have to go full bore on this you might as well look for an improvement.

One last thought - before you pull the transmission out check to ensure that the linkage is shifting the transmission fully into gear. If the linkage was not moving the levers fully into place there might be room for some movement and popping out of gear instead of into gear. The column shift linkage is notorius for wearing out and jamming so who knows - check it out before you condemn the transmission itself.

[barn9]

This is just a thought, and it may not apply to your situation, but years ago I had an old Chevy car with 3 on the tree, and had a similar problem. It turned out to be a linkage problem which was not allowing the tranny to completely engage 3rd gear. It wasn't a problem till higher speed due to more vibration, etc. Something to check before you pull the tranny, you never know.

[Fred T]

If it's popping out of gear it's a tranny problem. Disconnect the linkage and remove the side plate. You will probably find some gear teeth or bearings laying in the bottom.

Actually, the Saginaw 3 speed is pretty easy to work on if you have the factory overhaul manual. There aren't that many shops around that work on manual boxes. Be sure the front and rear seals get replaced while it's apart, and figure on a new clutch, too.

Last manual box on I worked on I ended up buying another from a junkyard about two years later. I had replaced the bearings and seals and fixed a vibration problem. Later one of the gears broke, and the parts would have cost me more than a junkyard tranny.

[gr8scott51]

Jewels - I have a non-synchro 3 spd that worked fine til I replaced it with the 5 speed. You can have it, it even has a Hurst floor shifter on it. All you have to do is come work at the Shipyard. Is that enough incentive? I didn't think so. If you weren't so far away, I'd deliver it.

good luck, Scott

[jewels.]

Originally posted by Fred T
If it's popping out of gear it's a tranny problem. Disconnect the linkage and remove the side plate. You will probably find some gear teeth or bearings laying in the bottom.

Actually, the Saginaw 3 speed is pretty easy to work on if you have the factory overhaul manual. There aren't that many shops around that work on manual boxes. Be sure the front and rear seals get replaced while it's apart, and figure on a new clutch, too.

Last manual box on I worked on I ended up buying another from a junkyard about two years later. I had replaced the bearings and seals and fixed a vibration problem. Later one of the gears broke, and the parts would have cost me more than a junkyard tranny.

so you are saying i could rebuild it myself? does it take a lot of specific tools to rebuild? like a good set of mics? or is it more along the lines of an engine rebuild - where i just might need a torque wrench or just plain tools? hmm - now you've got me intrigued!

as for the linkage bein loose - i would almost guess that it isnt the problem because fine69 (mike) spent quite a few hours at the ohio meet adjusting my linkage so that it was just perfect, and working quite well.... my guess is that it is probably the bearings or somethin in the tranny that is worn out....

jewels.

[jewels.]

Originally posted by gr8scott51
Jewels - I have a non-synchro 3 spd that worked fine til I replaced it with the 5 speed. You can have it, it even has a Hurst floor shifter on it. All you have to do is come work at the Shipyard. Is that enough incentive? I didn't think so. If you weren't so far away, I'd deliver it.

good luck, Scott

i just might be out your way sooner than you can bet.... i got a job offer out that way (for a job related to the field i am pursuing in KC - its non-engineering)... and so i might be taking it soon - its in portland oregon....

havent decided -- have a few more months before that...
jewels.

[CPNE]

Originally posted by barn9
This is just a thought, and it may not apply to your situation, but years ago I had an old Chevy car with 3 on the tree, and had a similar problem. It turned out to be a linkage problem which was not allowing the tranny to completely engage 3rd gear. It wasn't a problem till higher speed due to more vibration, etc. Something to check before you pull the tranny, you never know.

This is a valid point. I know you have a "bastardized" shift linkage and the engine is in the "wrong" location for a V8.

If this turns out to be the case (and I hope it is), that's one more salvo in my arsenal for why NOT to put a V8 in the I6 position.:p

Editors note: I also know that Jewels inherited this backyard engineering and did not self-inflict it upon herself. Longhorn Man and Crazy L, what say ye?

[CPNE]

as for the linkage bein loose - i would almost guess that it isnt the problem because fine69 (mike) spent quite a few hours at the ohio meet adjusting my linkage so that it was just perfect, and working quite well.... my guess is that it is probably the bearings or somethin in the tranny that is worn out....

Ya, but when did this problem start? Before or after the Ohio meet?

[gr8scott51]

Mine was a bastardized version also, with the 307 in the I6 position when I bought it. All of the bushings on the column shift were worn out, that's why I bought the Hurst Indy floor shift. Something to think about.

Scott

[palallin]

Originally posted by jewels.

like i said, the vibration doesnt seem like a BAD vibration -

[Cue Beach Boys]

So, it's a GOOD vibration, then . . . ?

[/Cue Beach Boys]

[jewels.]

palallin - LMAO!!!

Originally posted by CPNE


Ya, but when did this problem start? Before or after the Ohio meet?

hmmm - well - i suppose after the ohio meet....

hmmmm - iiiiiiinteresting point....

jewels.

[sniper2321]

the vibration in you drive line is keeping the worn synchro in contact with each other until it goes away and then allows it to pop out. it is a simple fix if you can find the parts but you might have a worn gear with chips that you will have to look for when you poop off the side cover mark the likage location so that you can put it back the way it worked with out binding. also your drive shaft might be whipping that is giving you the vibration. i have some parts and a 4 spd lmk if you need them. what kind of engineering do you do and could you look over some F1 suspension design that i have to see if they can work properly.

[jewels.]

Originally posted by sniper2321
the vibration in you drive line is keeping the worn synchro in contact with each other until it goes away and then allows it to pop out. it is a simple fix if you can find the parts but you might have a worn gear with chips that you will have to look for when you poop off the side cover mark the likage location so that you can put it back the way it worked with out binding. also your drive shaft might be whipping that is giving you the vibration. i have some parts and a 4 spd lmk if you need them. what kind of engineering do you do and could you look over some F1 suspension design that i have to see if they can work properly.

ooooh - you just made me think of something.....
my slip yolk is a little funny on one side - but the side where it is 'funny' is way deep in the tranny - so i dont think that will affect anything - but i suppose it *could* be making the drive shaft 'whip'....

but to be honest - it sounds like your description of the "worn synchro" is more likely the problem --- i would almost bet that it is tranny related - because of the feel when it POPs.

i am a mechanical engineer - finishing my master's degree. i defend my thesis proposal on monday (of next week). then i am moving to kansas city to pursue a non-engineering line of work. i would be more than happy to take a look at what you have. my focus in mechanical engineering was manufacturing at first, and parts design later.

jewels.

[dtlilly]

Jewels, Congrats on finishing your Masters. I just finished my BBA in Marketing Management and thinking real hard about getting an MBA in International Business.

My "X'S" dad got his Masters in Chemical Eng. from Purdue, and worked for Dupont in Memphis for 30 years. Good company, and good benifits. Why are you going to work out of your field?

Good luck with the tranny, I wish I could help, but never had a problem like that. <insert smiley thans knocking on wood>

[ts71281]

Jewels,

The problem is NOT in the transmission but in the adjustment of the 3spd linkages. Whoever adjusted the linkages doesnt have the 3rd gear engagement setup correctly. Whats happening is youre partially going into 3rd gear and its enough to keep the truck moving but gears are not fully engaged. Readjust your linkages back to where they were or have an EXPERIENCED mechanic adjust them for you. Not many people can setup 3spd linkages correctly. Its a lost art. If you were closer to MN Id set it up correctly for you. Jewels I will bet you theres nothing wrong with that transmission of yours but if you keep driving it with misadjusted linkages youre going to have some chipped gears in your near future. Chances are your other linkage is misadjusted as well. You dont use 1st and 2nd enough probably to notice like you do with 3rd. Hope you catch this post in time before you start tearing too deeply into this. Its a easier fix than you think.


Joe Hirdler

Maple Grove, MN

[crazy longhorn]

Originally posted by CPNE


This is a valid point. I know you have a "bastardized" shift linkage and the engine is in the "wrong" location for a V8.

If this turns out to be the case (and I hope it is), that's one more salvo in my arsenal for why NOT to put a V8 in the I6 position.:p

Editors note: I also know that Jewels inherited this backyard engineering and did not self-inflict it upon herself. Longhorn Man and Crazy L, what say ye?

I dont think the problem has to do with the v8 sitting on I 6 position, but it has to due with worn parts, Tom Hand nailed it "square" on the input shaft bearing, & the piolt bearing. when the trans is in 3rd gear, the syncro collar is coupled with the input shaft......if that bearig goes south, you will have the problems that you are seeing Those trannys arent hard to rebuild, & you should be able to get the brass scyncros(blocker rings), as well as small parts kit(bearings/washers/seals& gaskets). in many cases, it will be cheaper to get a good used gearbox(I still find the saginaw 3 spds in the $25-75 range from time to time). If you go the used route, be sure to install a new front bearing in the trans before you use it.......I consider that bearing a "throwaway item" , & replace it EVERY time I have a trans out. its just cheap ins, as well as the pilot bushing in the crank. I do also agree that it would be a good time to check the clutch. good luck,crazyL