LMC Replacement Rocker Was Too Short

[Low69CST]

The replacement rocker we got from LMC was a little bit short. There would have been a gap between it and the fender that was way too wide. After some discussion we cut in two and added a piece of metal.

Are all rockers stamped short?

[Jake Wade]

I have yet to buy one piece of anything from LMC that was quality or fit right.

[Low69CST]

We had some other panels from Brothers. And they appear to be from the same supplier. I was curious if there was another and a better supplier.

[gmachinz]

Check with AMD. The thing with repro sheetmetal at least as far as 68-72 A-bodies, 67-69 f-bodies, etc. is that the rule of thumb is; if you are going to use any aftermarket panels, use ALL aftermarket panels. If you use GM NOS panels, use ALL GM NOS panels. If making body repairs, I'd suggest using rust free used panels if NOS can't be sourced. If you have to use aftermarket, you go into it knowing there will be extra work to make it fit correctly.

On my 86 K10, something as simple as cab corners required a lot of "massaging" with the repro corners I bought....but for $16 per side I knew I could make them work anyway.

1.) I had to re-create the rear cab side edge since the stamping was off compared to the production body line on the cab.

2.) The rocker-cab corner edge needing to be slowly and gradually ground down so that the rocker and cab corner met flush @ the lower seam.

3.) The lower edge where it is pinch welded to the inner rocker lip needed to be hammer/dollied just right so it "folds" up into the inner rocker to meet up so that the entire bottom edge runs straight along the rocker lip and cab corner lip.

All in all I spent 6 hours on each corner-most of it was modding for proper fit. I don't know if GM repair corners were ever even made/offered but anything an aftermarket repair part is being used, just realize nothing will fit as-is and it requires some creative thinking at times to get it to fit properly.

But the time/effort makes it worth it in the end.

[tucsonjwt]

X2 on rust free used parts. There are still a lot of old squares in the junkyards in the desert and in Cali. You can usually get a rust free whole truck for $800, but the shipping is costly. I think any truck which needs a lot of body work is not the best investment. I would much rather build a whole truck from scratch starting with a rust free body.

[lilpoindexter]

Originally Posted by jake wade

i have yet to buy one piece of anything from lmc that was quality or fit right.

real talk

[barry1982]

I agree a "rust free" body would be ideal.... unfortunately a lot of us live in the "northern rust belt".... and obtaining rust free bodies is not easy/cost effective.
The truck I'm restoring right now is an 82' with 86 thousand miles. Bought if from the original owners estate. Truck runs/drives like new, but a little rusty.
Ordered replacement inner/outer rockers and inner/outer cab corners made by a company called "Key Parts". Think they are made offshore (like everything else) ..... but fit... quality was surprising. Minimal modifications, and nice welding in as they appear to be as thick, or slightly thicker than original equipment.

[MikeB]

What a shocker! The only good replacement body parts I've ever used were from GM. Their rocker panels fit like a glove on my 69 C10, but weren't cheap. Aftermarket stuff is generally a joke.

However, I heard there's a company in Taiwan using original GM tooling and making very good parts. At least that's the case with their stuff for Camaros and I think 55-57 cars. Unfortunately, they don't brand the parts with their name, so you have to ask the vendors whose parts they are selling, assuming they even know. Sometimes you'll see a low-medium quality "driver" part, and then a more expensive part listed by the same vendor.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by Jake Wade

I have yet to buy one piece of anything from LMC that was quality or fit right.

Guess I lucked out, because their wiper/washer panel and heater control panel are first rate. In fact the heater panel looked stronger in areas where the OE version tended to break when the cables got tight. Seems to me like they were made in Taiwan. That's usually at least 2x better quality than mainland China.

My biggest issue with LMC is the flat rate shipping; in my case $18.75 for a small 1.5 lb box. They obviously see their shipping dept as a profit center.

[gmachinz]

GM doesn't sell ANY of their original tooling. Companies may build replicas of GM tooling but nobody has any actual production GM tooling.

[barry1982]

I agree with you MikeB......you should see how they rip us off shipping across the USA/Canada border....... Some companies will actually ship USPS instead of UPS. Might take a little longer... but way cheaper.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by gmachinz

GM doesn't sell ANY of their original tooling. Companies may build replicas of GM tooling but nobody has any actual production GM tooling.

But I read it on the Internet, so it must be true! In any case there are multiple sources for some sheet metal parts.

Interesting post by a guy at National Parts Depot:

"There are many different factories over in Taiwan, some names that you would recognize (Golden Legion, GT Golden Trust, CHL), and alot that you wouldn't.

They all more-or-less "cooperate" with each other to a certain degree, in order to be able to sell the other's products on their containers for parts that they do not have tooling for themselves...

Let's face it, there's not enough VOLUME in these old-car parts to support or justify each and every factory having its own complete array of tooling for every last widget...

It's a mixed-bag, a subject FAR TOO VAST to cover here, or begin to explain.

For certain parts/pieces, there are competing tools overseas, and hence a "choice" for us importers to make, in the quest to be carrying the best-quality that is available.

For other parts, there is only ONE set of tooling in operation overseas, and the products produced from that tooling get shared far and wide amongst various importers.

And then for many parts there are EXCLUSIVE AGREEMENTS between manufacturer and importer... I'm not going to name names, but certain major importers/distributors used to have alot of exclusives, but these exclusives seem to be expiring or getting bought-back by actual manufacturers. There's alot of turmoil currently...

See what a political mess we have here.

All of the U.S. importers/distributors work hard at marketing their "brand", which gives hobbyists such as yourselves the idea that they are making their own stuff. Yes, and no, and maybe, and not really, and.... It all depends...

But suffice it to say... Does it ALL come from the same place? No.

Does each company sell its own unique line-up of products? No.

Is it a big tangled mess of factories with strange names, importers paying for effective marketing and exclusives, competing tools, and non-competing tools? YES.

We've been importing on our own since "the beginning". It used to be a big deal for us back in the 80's, a big event, purchasing a full container from an overseas representative that acted as agency for these factories.

Today we have our own relationships, contacts, and pipelines. We go to Dynacorn or Goodmark when they hold an exclusive "monopoly" for a specific part that we need to carry. But if they don't own those rights, we buy it direct. Golden Legion has long been our primary source for awhile, but bottom-line is that we'll source to the best toolings available, to the best of our ability to ascertain.

We currently import over 60 containers a year.

I've said it a million times before, "generalizing" the topic of repro metal is like trying to simplify something very complex, it winds up getting you no good answers, and no solid advice. In the end, you just need to buy from an end-supplier that you can trust to have done their homework, and have good contacts/sourcing..."

[gmachinz]

It's really too bad GM doesn't just re-invest in their original tooling and begin reproducing vintage parts....can you imagine being able to just go to the dealer and order a NEW GM grill or a set of color matched seat belts? Or a DZ302 crossram air cleaner assembly? If a person is gonna spend money on aftermarket anyway, why not have the chance to buy essentially a "re-stamping" of a GM part from production line tooling?

[jdl71]

So what becomes of it (GM tooling) if it's not sold? Sent to China for scrap and then sent back to us as stamped steel patch panels? Only partially tongue in cheek there. I've also heard that after a while the tooling gets too old, worn out, etc to continue making the parts within tolerance. I'll admit I know nothing about manufacturing but to me that means that the dies or whatever they use to stamp steel with have just physically lost enough material that they are no longer accurate. Hopefully someone will chime in and set me straight if I'm way off here.

Keith?

[gmachinz]

Originally Posted by jdl71

So what becomes of it (GM tooling) if it's not sold? Sent to China for scrap and then sent back to us as stamped steel patch panels? Only partially tongue in cheek there. I've also heard that after a while the tooling gets too old, worn out, etc to continue making the parts within tolerance. I'll admit I know nothing about manufacturing but to me that means that the dies or whatever they use to stamp steel with have just physically lost enough material that they are no longer accurate. Hopefully someone will chime in and set me straight if I'm way off here.

Keith?

I say that based on conversations with a local gentleman who is a machinist by trade (retired) and he has exclusive rights to reproduce the Impala SS swirl pattern interior and exterior trim moldings-he had to build his own machining processes too-he was told by a rep for GM Restoration Parts that they would grant him the license to offer them for sale IF he could manufacture them as well as NOS parts would look. He inquired about using GM original tooling and was told GM keeps the original production equipment and does not offer them for sale. Ive been told by AMD (repro sheetmetal) reps too that GM keeps their production tooling and does not sell it or rent it. So as far as I know from people who actually have licensed permission from GM to reproduce certain parts that nobody uses actual GM tooling.

[jdl71]

I wonder what they use for a benchmark then. Does GM have at least one of every NOS part to compare to?

[gmachinz]

Well I know he had to track down NOS stuff to be able to pull measurements from to build his tooling. I don't think GM stocks any actual parts for the purpose of "archiving" as it were. It odd nobody on any forum has experience working for GM Restoration Parts or its affiliates to shed more light on it. Besides being required to make enough parts to satisfy 5 years beyond typical warranty expirations for warehouses and dealers, I wonder too what (and where) becomes of the GM tooling.

[gmachinz]

I found this article-but you can be sure original tooling doesn't make it out of GMs' hand I'm willing to bet.


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...ts-restoration

[Willowrun]

When GM is done making service parts at the end of a production run the tooling itself is scrapped. The machines (presses in the case of sheet metal parts) are either retooled to make the next generation of production or are sold at auction....without tooling.

[jdl71]

I can remember buying one of those catalogs around that time, 1996 or so. I probably still have it, but it was just a list of authorized suppliers like it is now. That was about the same time I sent them a dollar or so for the "restoration kit" which they now call heritage kit and it's all available online. Back then it seemed like you really had some inside info, came in a big 9x12 envelope. I know I still have that.

[jdl71]

Originally Posted by Willowrun

When GM is done making service parts at the end of a production run the tooling itself is scrapped. The machines (presses in the case of sheet metal parts) are either retooled to make the next generation of production or are sold at auction....without tooling.

That's exactly the answer I was expecting. I can't see them warehousing who knows how much tooling over the years, and for what reason? In case they decide to relaunch the Celebrity or Citation?

[franken]

All, or almost all repro parts are made in Taiwan and often, if not always fit poorly w/o massaging.
Deal with it.

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by franken

All, or almost all repro parts are made in Taiwan and often, if not always fit poorly w/o massaging.
Deal with it.

Thanks for useful info.

[franken]

People have been posting the same thing blaming Goodmark, LMC, or whoever for the last 15 years. None of the companies selling the parts make them, and they all sell the same parts. Typically, you'll fine a Triplus tag on the part.