54 chevy truck with NV3500 5 speed starter problems

[heliguy02]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this question, but I am sure someone here can maybe help.
I have a 1954 Chevy truck with a s10 frame swap. I am using a 1978 305 engine from a Camaro. I am using a Nv3500 transmission from a 1989 silverado.
The engine came from with a automatic flexplate. I bought a 168 tooth manual flywheel for a 78 Camaro with 305. I am using the Silverado pressure plate and clutch. I am using a starter for a 78 Camaro with a manual trans.
Ok. Here is my question.. Is the stater for a 1989 Silverado 305 5 speed different that the 78 Camaro 305 manual trans. starter?
I have tried 2 different starters for a 78 Camaro 305 manual and neither one of them will turn the engine over fast enough to start.
The first starter I bought from Ebay. It was one of the those mini Hi-torque starters. It didn't work so I thought it was just a junk ebay starter so I bought one from Oreily's and it won't start the engine either. So I was wondering if maybe I need the 89 Silverado starter?
I have shimmed the starter everyway I know possible and no help.
I am using a brand new battery with full charge, brand new battery cables.
I can turn the engine over by hand with a short breaker bar with no problem. I even took out all spark plugs and the engine does spin a little faster, but still not fast enough to start.
I just can't figure out what is going on.
Any help or comment would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Tony

[solidaxel]

Welcome from So Az!

Is the transmission free can you roll the car when it is in netrural?
Does it make a difference when you have the clutch in and turn the engine over
Can you pull the spark plugs and spin the engine to see if there is any oil pressure?
How easy does it turn over by hand with the plugs out

[heliguy02]

I don't have the clutch system setup yet. The slave cylinder, master cylinder and clutch pedal are not yet installed. So I am cranking the engine with the clutch engaged, but the trans. is in neutral. Also the drive shaft in not yet installed.
I did turn the input shaft of the transmission before I installed it and it turned free.
I did remove the spark plugs and cranked the engine. Yes it does build oil pressure.
The engine does seem to turn over easy by hand (with a short breaker bar).
I have a dial torque wrench, I will use it and see exactly how much it takes to turn the engine.
Thanks for your reply.
-Tony

[solidaxel]

Gust for S**** & Grins could you turn the 4 bolts on the trans out about two turns or so
and just make sure it is not binding and try the starter again
Good battery yes?
Try 2 batteries + to + neg to neg
two bad starters!!! or try a new one which is easier
Look for a crack in the surface area where the starters bolt up to the engine, clean real good and a strong light

[mr48chev]

A few things I have run into over the years when diagnosing similar situations.

1. Battery not fully charged. Even new batteries should be put on the charger to make sure they are up to snuff.

2. and the most consistent one on won't crank rigs, poor ground connections on the battery cable. Too many guys don't scrape the paint under where they put the ground strap to clean bare metal. Or the ground strap is fastened to a bracket that has been painted and bolted to a painted head or block. Or the connection to ground is not good and tight.

3. Wrong starter for the application. We are assuming that your starters use the offset bolt pattern that works with the 168 tooth ring gear. straight across bolts are for the 153 tooth ring gear.
There is a gear reduction factory GM starter that is used on later 350 trucks. a 98 Chevy 1500 with a 350 uses it. http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/se...make=Chevrolet Factory GM design an not a Mickey Mouse aftermarket unit. It is even used on the 2000 8.1 engines so it has the poop to get the job done.

I'm still thinking that if you swapped starters and had all the electrical connections good and clean and tight you have another issue rather than starter going on though. I'd go back and make sure the battery is fully charged, check each and every electrical connection from battery posts out both + and ground including the connections to the fuse block and switch. With the plugs out even a wimpy starter should spin the engine over with a good battery.

[heliguy02]

Ok, Good things to check. I was planning to take the transmission back out this weekend just to make sure that was not the problem.
Maybe 2 bad starters? wouldn't be the first time I have heard of this.
Thanks again.

[mr48chev]

Haul the starter in and have it checked to eliminate that.

Trouble shooting is a process of elimination and you eliminate one factor from the equation at a time to get it figured out.

In this case factor 1 is the battery being in good shape and up to the job. Factor 2 is the starter being up to snuff (by being tested to make sure) plus being the correct starter for what you need. Also you want to make sure that the starter drive matches up to the ring gear with the proper clearance. Factor 3 is having the electrical connections clean and tight with good contacts to ground.

[Softpatch]

I just fought the starter on My "other car" (GM)
3 NEW starters later
My problem was the little bracket that bolts to the rear of the starter
(it hold the weight of the starter) so I call it a support bracket
removed that bracket start every time Modify the bracket
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[1project2many]

The Delco starters for a 305 were generally smaller than the 350 versions. I always used a high torque version where applicable although the newer PM starter mentioned above really is the way to go.

When you say "not fast enough to start," Are we talking about something that sounds like when the battery is dead? Or just that it cranks and cranks and won't start?

Watch for battery cable placement and diameter. Is the ground cable connected to the frame? Engine? Body? If it's connected to frame or body, do you have another cable between engine and frame / body? If you have a voltmeter and a helper you could measure the voltage at the starter during cranking. That would tell you quit a bit...

[heliguy02]

UPDATE.. I finally got some time to work on the truck again. I found the problem. It turns out that the battery cables I was using were not large enough to carry the load. The battery is mounted in the bed so the positive cable is long. I put on some much larger cables and now the engine cranks fast, just like it should.
I feel dumb that I didn't figure this out sooner. Goes back to always check the simple things first.
Thanks to everyone for your input and help.
-Tony