Good line on a SBC short block?

[Mrturner1]

I want to find a SBC short block that'll hold up to some performance parts, but I don't wanna spend a lot. I looked at summit and Jegs, and found some stuff on google but the cheapest ones I could find are still 1500$ bucks. I have also thought about getting a bare block and buying a balanced rotating assembly to try and build it myself, but I don't think I want to do that with new parts be'ins it'd be my first short block.

[MARKDTN]

Are you wanting new or used? I don't quite understand what you are trying to do. Why a short block? Do you have heads that you want to use already?

[webfoot]

Summit had a deal on the LS 5.3 block for $300 plus truck freight. That seems pretty darn good to me.

Get the right tools, watch videos, ask questions - enjoy yourself. It ain't scary!

[davepl]

If I were starting from scratch I'd definitely start with an LS platform, unless originality were a big concern for that project.

The cylinder heads are decades more advanced; you get 6-bolt cross-bolted mains, and heck, even aluminum blocks are cheap.

They make a LOT more power than a standard small block. I presume that's largely two factors - the cylinder heads and the larger cam blank (otherwise a rotating assembly doesn't really contribute much to the power equation).

You could dump $8K into a small-block and come away with a nervous 420 horsepower. Or you could put the HOT cam in a junkyard LS3 and make 480 with just a slight lope to the idle.

[leftybass209]

The LS, SBC debate always comes up whenever someone considers rebuilding a SBC. The unbiased part of it is:

An LS makes more power, gets better gas mileage, has more longevity, and has the benefits of FI if you snag a complete used engine.

If you do snag a used engine, it typically has 100k + miles on it already, and will need a rebuild in roughly an equal amount of time as a fresh SBC. (i'm estimating 200k for an LS, and 100K for a SBC) both have been known to get more or less miles.

An LS is NOT a simple swap and go, and actually costs quite a bit more than a SBC when you consider it requires different parts like gauges, engine harness, headers, engine mounts, electric fans, possible radiator swap, etc., that are most likely already set up to run a SBC in your truck.

When I hear someone is on a budget... LS does NOT come to mind. If you want to save some cash and hold off on a SBC build, the LS can be worthwhile.

Either motor you build to make power with, will wipe out a used transmission and/or differential pretty quick if you put your foot in it.

[leftybass209]

Separate from my previous post, there are some fairly cheap ways to make power utilizing a SBC platform, for the budget oriented person.

One is to buy a 350/260 crate engine. $1,400 from Jegs, free shipping. You can drop a set of vortec heads, intake, carb, and cam in it. That combo is good for around 400 hp/tq. It costs in the $2,000-2,500 range depending on what parts you may already have, and would be fairly reliable. Several people have bracket raced on that combo and the bottom end is surprisingly stout.

That is bare-bones cheap for that much power. Anything else, like building an engine on your own, just drives the price north from there, unless you've already got a stash of parts.

Best of luck

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by MARKDTN

Are you wanting new or used? I don't quite understand what you are trying to do. Why a short block? Do you have heads that you want to use already?

I wasn't set on new or used really, just trying to find something real cheap. I only want the short block because I have a pile of parts and I'm wanting to start another project. My C10 is in such good shape these days that I rarely get to wrench on it, so I'm gonna build a project motor that may be the test mule for my first turbo attempt.

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

Separate from my previous post, there are some fairly cheap ways to make power utilizing a SBC platform, for the budget oriented person.

One is to buy a 350/260 crate engine. $1,400 from Jegs, free shipping. You can drop a set of vortec heads, intake, carb, and cam in it. That combo is good for around 400 hp/tq. It costs in the $2,000-2,500 range depending on what parts you may already have, and would be fairly reliable. Several people have bracket raced on that combo and the bottom end is surprisingly stout.

That is bare-bones cheap for that much power. Anything else, like building an engine on your own, just drives the price north from there, unless you've already got a stash of parts.

Best of luck

I'm glad you brought that up, I was seriously considering the 290 horse GM short block because it's a nice platform and has cam bearings, freeze plugs, pretty much ready to go. The only thing stopping me is price, plus I have been thinking of starting the build with a zero decked block, that way I have room to play around with the compression ratio and still get a good quench/squish.

I have a set of AFR 195's and also a set of aluminum NKB 200's that are itching to go on something.

[leftybass209]

The only difference between the 260 and 290 hp is the cam. The cam in the 290 is a bit too much for the heads it has, and even at that, they're both old school grinds that have been far surpassed by cam technology. If you aren't concerned with the warranty, you can get the 260, swap the cam, and still be cheaper than the 290 hp 350.

The problem with building your own, is if you run into any problems doing the short block, and have to pass it off to a builder, you'll most likely be set behind where the 260hp engine is, financially.

[Boog]

Have you looked for answers down in the engine and driveline forum? I'm following this one.

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

The only difference between the 260 and 290 hp is the cam. The cam in the 290 is a bit too much for the heads it has, and even at that, they're both old school grinds that have been far surpassed by cam technology. If you aren't concerned with the warranty, you can get the 260, swap the cam, and still be cheaper than the 290 hp 350.

The problem with building your own, is if you run into any problems doing the short block, and have to pass it off to a builder, you'll most likely be set behind where the 260hp engine is, financially.

Is the 260hp one cheaper than the 290hp? The only thing I'm keeping in the short block is the crank/rods and pistons. The cam will be pulled out and replaced with a big fat Crane 305 H06 or something of that nature

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by Boog

Have you looked for answers down in the engine and driveline forum? I'm following this one.

I have posted in the engine and drivetrain forum but there's not much happening over there most of the time. This should be a pretty cool build, definetly over 400 hp for pretty cheap. It's going on a dyno at the end so I can see how I did

[leftybass209]

Originally Posted by Mrturner1

Is the 260hp one cheaper than the 290hp? The only thing I'm keeping in the short block is the crank/rods and pistons. The cam will be pulled out and replaced with a big fat Crane 305 H06 or something of that nature

Yeah, $1510 vs $2270. Get on summit, jegs, or whatever your preferred site is and verify. Alternatively, see if an engine shop in your area can match a short block for that price, and what parts would go in it.

[webfoot]

In between the 2 is to find a mid 90s and up factory roller cam block. Retrofit stuff is expensive.

[bhayes1]

How about the crate GM 195 HP crate long block? Thats the cheapest set up I can find for around $1,500 shipped. If someone was looking for something cheap and reliable and not too concerned with high performance would this be a decent route?

[leftybass209]

Originally Posted by bhayes1

How about the crate GM 195 HP crate long block? Thats the cheapest set up I can find for around $1,500 shipped. If someone was looking for something cheap and reliable and not too concerned with high performance would this be a decent route?

Same engine as the 260, it's rated between 195 and 260 hp depending on what parts are on it. Yes, that is a great motor to just stab and go. It makes decent torque, is very reliable, and gets decent gas mileage for a sbc.

[kwmech]

For what it's worth I have a 1972 long block that may need some work.. It ran when I took it out a couple of years ago. 100.00 I'm selling everything so I can buy some machinery

[bhayes1]

I MAY be interested. I currently have a sbc that needs work and am contemplating if I should just spend the 1500 for a crate motor. I'm down in Bakersfield and might be up that way in early Oct. if you still have it.

[GASoline71]

If I ever build another SBC I will get the Summit Racing pre prepped bare block that is already clearanced to accept a longer stroke crank and has the provisions to run a stock roller lifter setup. It also has provisions for a fuel pump. Around $600 bones.

I believe it is clearanced to accept H-beam rods if so desired.

All it needs is for the cylinders to be honed...

Gary

[geezer#99]

Originally Posted by GASoline71

If I ever build another SBC I will get the Summit Racing pre prepped bare block that is already clearanced to accept a longer stroke crank and has the provisions to run a stock roller lifter setup. It also has provisions for a fuel pump. Around $600 bones.

I believe it is clearanced to accept H-beam rods if so desired.

All it needs is for the cylinders to be honed...

Gary

That's a good idea Gary if you're starting from scratch. That way you don't get all the undesirables that the 260 or 290 crate has. Undesirables like no compression, crappy flowing heads, ancient cam etc.
Far better to spend a few bucks more and get an L31.
Like this.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet+Perf...30283/10002/-1
Or this.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Perf...30282/10002/-1

Either one has a better roller cam, better heads, more compression and a one piece rear main.

For 500 bucks more it's a no-brainer!

[webfoot]

Nice! Well worth the extra money for sure.

I'd want to put all my own stuff in so I personally love the 5.3 shortblock idea the most.

[TwoFiftyShifter]

So to use the L31 in my 71 I'd need a new flywheel, to hook up an electric fuel pump and convert to a juice clutch?

[crazyjeenyus]

Since this is your first build, make it a learning experience. Go to the wreckers and pick up a complete non-seized block for $100-ish bucks. Make sure you get a 327/350 block so you can take advantage of the bigger bore/stroke options for future rebuilds. Bearings and rings are cheap like borscht. Take the time to build it yourself, you can hone the cylinders with a $25 honing tool.

Stock pistons, rods, and crank, freshly honed cylinders, new bearing and rings and you may be in it for $250. Put your valve train and AFR's (although AFR's are usually associated with more costly builds) on it and roll.

If it lasts 100,000 miles...great. If not, then you can build it again, and add a few more goodies each time you do.

Good luck.

[1969c10joe]

yeah what farmtruck said no reason to buysomething you are just going to blow up anyway rebuild an old one

[davepl]

He's got the Speed Parts Disease. You know, where you get jonesed about buying the big roller cam from the bottom of the list, the zero-plane intake, the quad-pumper four-corner idle carb, triple row timing chain, and the pistons with the polyphosphoric coating.

It's a lust that won't be satisfied by ball-honing and sticking new bearings in an old four-bolt block that you found at the scrap yard. It's gotta be trick!

And I'm not saying it's a bad thing, as I felt that way once. Now I'm more about getting all of my boring old mundane parts to worth together as a team. But I know the feeling... I was just blessed with youthful poverty so I could never indulge it!

Now I could afford a billet block and I'd trade it all for 21" of vacuum :-)