A.C. Questions

[jorgensensc]

I know y'all have seen me post alot recently. This board is addicting I can't seem to get enough information about everything under the sun for our trucks. Everyone on this site is so helpful that I enjoy reading posts about things I don't even need to know about, just so I can pass the info on if someone else ever needs it. Alright, enough of the schmoozing Here is my question:

I'm moving back to the great Country...er...I mean state of Texas in 2 months (stop for cheering in background to die down) after a very long 5 year enlistment in the Marine Corps. I got plenty use to the heat while I was in Iraq, but have since decided life is too short to sweat!!
My options are
1) Buy or put together a factory system and install it before giong back home.
2) Buy or put together a newer model pickups factory a.c. system before I go back home
3)Buy an aftermarket system , but wait until spring before I can afford it.

What do y'all think is the best option in y'alls opinion. I'm really pretty good at making things work, and they usually look good when I do it, but I'm not a machinist. I have an Auto hobby Shop on base tat has about any tool that I don't own. I can't weld, but can have it done pretty cheap.
Thanks for your time, I know it takes time to read posts and help people, but I really do appreciate it!!!

[JayDubBlazer]

Check the FAQ board there is much discussion about this

[jorgensensc]

I've seen the FAQ's on istallation ease of aftermarket systems, but I couldn't find anything on installing an original A.C. on a non A.C. truck. I would think that it would be a simple bolt in operation, witha couple of holes for vents, but I have been wrong before. And I haven't heard anyone really talk about installing a later model A.C. on these trucks. Thanks for viewing.

[hughnews1]

i vote after market when your rich..they sell everthing in the packet ..

[mrein3]

jorgensensc,
I'm in the middle of making my stock non-A/C truck an A/C truck with all stock components.
It isn't going to be WAY cheaper than going aftermarket but I've been slowly accumulating parts and paying cash. To me that is quite a bit easier to swallow than spending $800+ for a complete aftermarket system. When all is said and done I should have it working for under $600.
If you can wait a few weeks I'm taking pictures and will prepare a how-to when I'm done.
It isn't bolt in but it is close. Tonight I'm going to attempt to jump over the only major hurdle I see in my plans. That is turning the non-A/C firewall into an A/C firewall.

[zyggy72]

The way to go is everything A/C in the cab would be original stock 67-72 parts (you can find really nice used parts) and the in the engine compartment use the original stock 67-72 A/C heater core and A/C box w/ fan. The rest of the under-the-hood parts you will want to use the A/C parts from the newer 73-87 A/C trucks because it is much easier to convert the system from R-12 to R-134. Most of the parts you should be able to get used at a very much cheaper price.
This is just my .02

[/<eystroke]

This shows the firewall differences between an AC and non AC cab.

[zyggy72]

WOW!!! COOL!!!! Now that is a big help!!!!

[69sixpackbee]

Well (thats a deep subject) I had sprung for an aftermarket system to put in my non-A/C '72. I went with the Old Air unit at first. Needless to say it performed considerably less than I had expected--POS in my book. My cab is COMPLETELY insulated, new rubber and tinted windows. The BEST it would ever do for me is a comfortable 82 degrees inside @ 100 outside (this was in Texas too BTW). Coming across the Arizona desert in August? you might as well open the windows and save the gas! These systems are just too small for the work being done. It will work for a while but once the added heat starts to be more than the unit can handle it turns out to be nothing more than a cool fan. I had this thing dialed in as best as anyone could do and no bueno. The heater was fine and the fan blew like a "hurricane" but what good is that when the surface area of the evaporator is too small??
In hindsight, I would have rustled up the stuff for an OEM addition and I can make a POA replacement system to use a TXV and a binary switch that will work as well as the original system. Too late now. I bought the Airtique "King Kool" replacement unit from some real nice folks in Cleburne, TX and spoke with the owner, Harold Gentry and he set me up with his system. This one is considerably larger and will take some "backyard engineering" to stuff this one under the dash but hell, I like a challenge! I am hoping that his system will work better than my previous exploit. The Old Air unit was compact and looked good but it did not perform. The Vintage Air I have heard good about theirs but I have not had experience with one. This Airtique unit looks like it has the biggest evaporator available in an aftermarket unit so I am keeping my fingers crossed.
My opinion, get the factory system installed and running. You will be glad you did!

[jorgensensc]

Wow that is a great picture. So far I have everyone going for the original style system. Is there someplace to look to see all of the parts necessary to install the system? What should I pull from a newer vehicle, and will it bolt to the older system? Will I have to have custom hoses made? What do you think would be a fair price for an intact system? There is a pck-n-pull here, snd they told me 200 for the whole system. Thanks again, I seem to have hit on a sore subject for some... I hope I haven't brought up too many painful memories
Shawn

[CPNE]

That is a good picture. I'm going to do just the opposite. I've got a nice rust-free 67 small window a/c cab and I'm going to convert (revert) it to non a/c. Going to weld up those ugly vent holes in the dash for the smooooth look too I like the simplicity of the non-ac setup and you don't need a/c here at all.

[rigo]

i did the oem conversion to a non ac cab on mine.....i had a donor 69 that had the entire system on it and was still pressurized.......i ordered a fin comb from eastwood company and straightened the fins on the condenser, took it to a radiator shop and had it cleaned and pressure checked.....i bought a new compressor...cause i wanted to change over to r-134...bought the adapter fittings......had some new hoses made. ordered a o-ring kit, seal kit for all the ducts, and a rebuild kit for the levers from lmc........i've probably got about $300 in it......I ran it on the way to Goodguys this last weekend in dallas...i did well...but not ice cold.....the 134 may have something to do with that......also, may need another can..only put 2 in and it was a completley cleaned out system....

i tac welded in the "L" shape on the diagram above out of some 18 ga. sheet metal....and that was about the only mod i had to do to the firewall....

rigo

[mrein3]

This site is the greatest! I'm at the point rigo just pointed out. Tonight I'm planning on welding up the hole in the firewall to accomodate the AC evaporator and BAM! There appears in my web browser a picture of EXACTLY what I need.

A few notes on the picture...

There is an approx. 3/4" hole in the picture to the right of the heater hole - to the left on the vehicle. That hole needs to be made in the non-AC firewall. The cable from the controller in the cab passes through there to control the "flapper" in the box outside the firewall. That hole should be yellow in the picture. My cab does NOT have a dimple there. Probably because it doesn't need to be perfect - the cable is flexible.

The 4 holes that mount the inside box to the firewall needed to be drilled. They don't show up as "yellow" in the picture. No dimples. I used the actual box I was mounting as a template for those.

There is a dimple in the firewall for the top hole for the heater core. I have a "Greenley" or round hole punch that I used to make a pretty hole centered to that spot. The inside box, with heater core mounted fits through that hole and the hole that already exists. This differs slightly from the picture which shows the lower heater core hole being slightly different on A/C verses non-A/C. That lower hole, for those of you that care, was the hole the power to the fan came through on a stock non-AC truck.
My 3/4" drill bit just barely fits in that existing hole.

There are three dimples to center your holes for the vacuum activated cowl "flapper". Those three holes are yellow in the picture as expected. I didn't drill those out yet.

That is as far as I got last night.
Thanks /<eystroke, great picture! And timely. It is headed for the color laser printer right now for reference tonight.

[busterwivell]

I had an A/C system in my truck, but bought the Vintage Air system and installed it this summer. It blew so cold the first day that it frosted the vents. I had to turn the under dash knob down a little.
I sold the complete system from my truck to Oldyellow72 in Phoenix. He put that system in his truck and said it was fine. His was a non A/C cab. (I'm sure he had to replace parts, cuz it never worked in my truck)

[jorgensensc]

CPNE, Is your system complete? Did it work? Would you be willing to sell it? Thanks,
Shawn

[tom hand]

I had factory air but was never happy with it...I pulled it out and put in a Vintage Air and have been very pleased. But I do think the main down fall of the factory air is the size of the condencer...73 and up are much bigger. And even that is not a problem unless you live where it gets really hot

[busterwivell]

It gets plenty hot here in Tucson, I still love Vintage Air. Check with WES, he has a couple of A/C units awhile back.

[/<eystroke]

Updated picture. I created this by merging two photos of two cabs. I had to stretch and rotate
one a bit to get them to line up. (So I wouldn't depend on these photos to do any cutting!)
I just wanted to know what was different.

The red and yellow hole that intersect are actually the same hole I believe. I pulled the
colored circles apart to show that they both have that hole.

Glad I could help.

[/<eystroke]

Originally posted by CPNE
That is a good picture. I'm going to do just the opposite. I've got a nice rust-free 67 small window a/c cab and I'm going to convert (revert) it to non a/c. Going to weld up those ugly vent holes in the dash for the smooooth look too I like the simplicity of the non-ac setup and you don't need a/c here at all.

Wow! Your crazy! I'll be the first in line to cut a hole, but to weld one up that wasn't flat, no way!
I'm not a body man, and definetly not an artist!
Good luck.

PS: have you thought about putting speakers in those holes? Leave the vent ball assemblies and put in some tweeters? Just a thought.

[barraza]

This site has some great info on making an old system work with 134a.

http://www.ackits.com/forum/categories.cfm?catid=3

I had always read that the old chevy systems using POA valves were not easily converted, but there are instructions on simple adjustments to the POA valve that will make it work great. Also info on why the POA eliminator valves and conversion kits don't always work so well. Do a search on POA valves and you will have answers to all your questions.

[69sixpackbee]

The really only considerations with 134A retrofits is that you need a condenser with at least a 20% larger surface area and the addition of cooling fans to the condenser is a big + due to the higher pressure these systems operate under and the added latent heat produced. It is wise to change out your existing hoses with good barrier hoses (less permeable) and "green" o-rings designed to work with PAG oil. It is best to get a good quality compressor like a Sanden 508 or a Seltic. Make sure you COMPLETELY flush out the old oil as they will not mix! The systems run on approx. 20% LESS refrigerant as did with R12. Yes, a POA will work provided the pressure is set to about 24 down from 29 as they were with R12. These systems do work well with 134. Remember, R12 is still available (if you want to stay original) on Ebay (get the online 509 certification for $15.00 so you can buy the stuff) or even if you have anyone you know in the commercial HVAC industry as they will certainly have some on hand for some of the older refers that they will work on. Gas does not go bad as it will last for years in the containers. Even @ $30.00 a pound it still might be a viable opportunity to "tune up" your factory original system and still save some $$ as opposed to installing a "Complete" retrofit or aftermarket kit.

[jorgensensc]

Wow there is a lot of GREAT info here. I will be printing off all of this thread. This is exactly the type of information I needed. Thank you all for the great responses and taking the time to post them.
Shawn

[CPNE]

Originally posted by /&lt;eystroke


Wow! Your crazy! I'll be the first in line to cut a hole, but to weld one up that wasn't flat, no way!
I'm not a body man, and definetly not an artist!
Good luck.

PS: have you thought about putting speakers in those holes? Leave the vent ball assemblies and put in some tweeters? Just a thought.

I am serious about the non-ac setup but not serious about modifying the dash. It would be easier to graft in pieces from a junk non a/c cab or the entire dash, rather than to a fab filler pieces though.

The ole AM radio doesn't need any upgrades, but that's a good idea for those so inclined.

I had thought of using those holes for cup holders but the damn drinks keep spilling.

As for selling what I have, I'm not ready to tackle this until next spring. Who knows by then I'll have decided to install a DIN MP3 radio and keep the A/C...well maybe not