Clutch/Brake Firewall assembly

[andreas_kc]

I have a 51 Chevy 1/2 ton that I need a clutch/brake assembly for. Currently it has 4 wheel disc brakes and would prefer power brakes in some form. Front end has a Heidts Mustang II setup with 12 inch rotor disc.

So far the best option I can find is a Wilwood pedal assembly, but it is manual (which maybe ok? I don't have much exp driving a manual brake car), and I'm not certain if the pedals will be comfortable position wise? This route may start adding up some costs, w firewall bracket, triple master cylinders and possibly some fabrication.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Wilwoo...5-1,56212.html

Alternatively, I already own a hydroboost setup that I could use but not finding a good bracket setup for clutch and brake.

Here looks to be a common/great setup for just a brake pedal on the firewall...

http://store.waltonfabrication.com/19191919chtr.html

Anyone have some suggestions or thoughts without spending $1k plus on a pedal/master cyl combo? Also, FYI, the engine going in is a Cummins 4bt diesel so vacuum is limited. The hydroboost I have is off the 4bt's power steering.

[yossarian19]

I would definitely run the hydroboost as opposed to an assisted or low vacuum (or manual) brake setup. If you already have power steering and a hydroboost unit, you'd be foolish not to install it.
Am I correct in assuming you need a hydraulic clutch setup?
The brake pedal (walton fab) you link to, I'm pretty sure is made by Classic Performance Products. The one I have (for a '57) is pretty decent but the pedal wound up sitting *way* too high, so I had to modify things on my booster rod a bit to make it even "acceptable" . If you can confidently weld 3/8" plate on a safety critical application, you can cut & re-clock the pedal arm on the mount. Aside from that, mounting my hydroboost was cake: just add a flat bracket. I made mine from a blank HB bracket over Ebay, $20.
As for hydraulic clutch... No idea, honestly. Junkyard, maybe. Does Wilwood offer a clutch-only pedal?

[andreas_kc]

Also found this clutch/brake bracket from Kugel Components....

http://www.kugelkomponents.com/zenca...roducts_id=192

Is a universal firewall bracket like this sufficiently supported on an AD firewall? Or does it need to be incorporated into the dash?

On the Wilwood parts, yes they make a single brake/clutch pedal that would require a bit more fab work but around $100 a pedal.

[dsraven]

try to match your clutch master bore size to the slave size. otherwise you will have too much or not enough pedal travel.
hydroboost is the way I would go if running a diesel, for sure. especially if you have the parts already. also, try to match the brake master with respect to the piston sizes, front and rear, of the disc set up.

[SKFengineer]

I just want to comment on Wilwood manual brakes. I have a Wilwood Master Cylinder and brakes on three projects and I would never look back. Talk to Wilwood and get the right bore size, if you listen to them they will steer you well. I'm not saying they are better than power brakes but I am saying I've never wished for more brake force on the three cars I've installed their master cylinder. For what it's worth my projects are both street and track driven with anywhere between 350 hp to 715 hp and they weigh in the range of 3,500-4,000 lbs.

If Wilwood had a bolt in master cylinder and brake system for a straight axle '56 pick-up with the stock MC location and the six lug hubs I would have them on four projects.

[andreas_kc]

Thanks for all the feedback, I'm still considering either the kugelkomponents bracket (w/ hydroboost from donor bread-truck) or going the manual Wilwood route w the triple master assembly.

I'm very intrigued by the Wilwood manual setup. It seems like having two masters for front/rear brakes and getting the bores sized would work well and end up looking cooler than a hydro with a bunch of plumbing. Two things holding me back on it is having zero exp driving a manual brake truck ( this will be a daily driver in the Midwest, with traffic and random weather). Last would be the potential cost diff that I just have to work out.

[_Ogre]

Originally Posted by yossarian19

Am I correct in assuming you need a hydraulic clutch setup?

hard to answer without knowing what clutch your using, answer yossarians question

a 51 truck already has a brake and clutch pedal, not that difficult to reuse them
i run a stock brake pedal with an underfloor hydroboost, imo it is the ultimate power brake setup and it keeps the firewall clean
if your a semi-skilled fabricator a diy bracket is not that hard to weld up

mechanical or hydraulic clutch is the same
you already have a pedal, all you need is linkage

both brackets could be diy fabricated for less than $20 if you had to buy all the metal

[andreas_kc]

Yea, need hydraulic clutch for a Zf-5 small block version which has a internal slave cylinder inside the bell housing. I have the master for it that has a bit of hose that has the appro end connector.

I've looked at some under the floor setups but seem they are all asterisked as only for an auto and needing to remove the clutch pedal... Or I've seen one that is non powered clutch/brake bracket. Will look for a bracket.. I can do some minor fabrication/welding but have had to pay for some welding (have a pretty small mig welder at home, works for sheet metal)

[andreas_kc]

Well there is this under floor clutch/brake unit from TCI, but ouch almost $600. Plus I don't need the booster/master.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/TCI-60...bly,46286.html

[cwii]

Here is another underfloor option similar to speedway priced a little different http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/compa...r_systems.html

Chuck

[_Ogre]

but ouch almost $600.

i fabricated my own bracket on truk using scrap i had laying around, even if i bought the stock maybe $10 in material

[andreas_kc]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

i fabricated my own bracket on truk using scrap i had laying around, even if i bought the stock maybe $10 in material

That looks cool and a cheap solution if I only had a brake to deal with. Pretty much most solutions are cheap if I didn't have a clutch to deal with

Cheapest under the floor setup looks to be either the staggered setup from ECI, or finding just a TCI bracket without the booster/masters. Unless I can score a deal on it, the easiest and least expensive route is either the Kugel @ $265 (re-using hydro, $380 if I need a new bore size) or the Wilwood setup around $490 (pedals, mounting bracket, masters).

[whitedog76]

I bought a Jeep TJ pedal assembly. It was dirt cheap off of Ebay, should fit with little modifications. Planning on using Toyota clutch master and GM Brake & booster. I'll have to get creative with pushrods, but seems like a straight forward easy fit.

Here's the pedals up next to the OE.



http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/wh...64742638631913

[yossarian19]

Link appears broken

Edit: As an add-on to my comments about CPP's firewall kit (re-sold by millions) I really think it needs more bracing on the firewall. An 11 ga plate, something like 1'x1', even better with angle iron bracing the perimeter, should be installed on the inside of the firewall. I didn't do that because reasons but I think I will eventually because I'm pretty sure I can see the MC moving due to a little firewall flex when I hit the brakes hard.

[_Ogre]

Originally Posted by andreas_kc

Yea, need hydraulic clutch for a Zf-5 small block version which has a internal slave cylinder inside the bell housing. I have the master for it that has a bit of hose that has the appro end connector.

I've looked at some under the floor setups but seem they are all asterisked as only for an auto and needing to remove the clutch pedal... Or I've seen one that is non powered clutch/brake bracket. Will look for a bracket.. I can do some minor fabrication/welding but have had to pay for some welding (have a pretty small mig welder at home, works for sheet metal)

if you have the master, fabricating an underfloor bracket should be easy
i used a 120 volt fluxcore welder to build most of my truk, don't underestimate what you can do with a small mig welder
the only reason i push for underfloor brackets is that it keeps the firewall clean
i'd post a pic of my firewall but photobucket is down, thus pics and links aren't working

photobucket is back up

[yossarian19]

I'd post a pic of my firewall but it's *so* ugly...