Timing Dilemma - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

68 Suburban · 10-14-2003, 06:04 PM

My truck likes the timing advanced far enough that the truck hesitates when starting. If I retard it so the truck starts easy, it does not run nearly as well. What I do is keep the timing advance and keep the kill switch off to the HEI until I start spinning the starter, then I hit the kill switch and it fires right up. Any other suggestions?

RON WOODGEARD · 10-14-2003, 06:28 PM

The only time I have encountered that was,

#1 my starter brushes were going bad, or something else in the starter.

#2 my timing chain had slipped a tooth.

Did it slip, or did I screw up on the install ???????

Ron

68 Suburban · 10-14-2003, 06:30 PM

Well it is a brand new starter... And the old one did the same thing!

lol

RON WOODGEARD · 10-14-2003, 06:37 PM

Ouch !! Well,,, Do you have a couple of free extra hours ???!!

Ron

Quote:

Originally posted by 68 Suburban
Well it is a brand new starter... And the old one did the same thing! lol

68 Suburban · 10-14-2003, 06:39 PM

It has been like this since I got the engine new. That was 3 years ago. I guess i will leave it alone.

JimKshortstep4x4 · 10-14-2003, 07:44 PM

What size are your battery cables and what is the cranking capacity of your battery?

You could be loosing cranking capacity if the cables or battery are undersized.

Jim

68 Suburban · 10-14-2003, 07:54 PM

Well, when I did change that starter, I thought the possitive cable going down to the starter was skinny

. Maybe that is it?

crazy longhorn · 10-14-2003, 08:17 PM

I agree, I would look at the battery & cables 1st.....if that doesnt get it, you might think about cutting back the initial timing, & getting a little more mechanical timing, or upping the vac advance to help the situation. Good luck,crazyL

cableguy0 · 10-14-2003, 08:21 PM

i agree either run more mechanical or keep it how it is and get a high torque mini starter otherwise its gonna crank slow

RON WOODGEARD · 10-14-2003, 09:39 PM

Are you running an engine ground strap ??

If not, give that the first try.. .

Replace your battery cables with good sized ones, and do a engine to frame ground strap.

Ron

68 Suburban · 10-14-2003, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RON WOODGEARD
Are you running an engine ground strap ??

If not, give that the first try.. .

Replace your battery cables with good sized ones, and do a engine to frame ground strap.

Ron

I do have the ground straps on both sides of the engine. Thanks for the ideas

Hooter · 10-14-2003, 10:56 PM

um what do you have running for compression on the starter, and what kind of cam are you running in there? if you have done any radical mods, i would try retarding the cam a tooth, butthen again that would be the very last thing id want to do

68 Suburban · 10-21-2003, 06:30 AM

I guess the problem was the skinny starter cable. I put a new 4 guage wire on, and it seems to start fine. I never had the problem with the old starter. I guess this one call for more power.

tom hand · 10-21-2003, 07:24 AM

Even though the bigger cable makes it start better, you still have a problem that will shorten starter life. I would look at getting the HEI recurved so it runs correctly without running so much initial advance...that will be the true fix.

Blue Beard · 10-21-2003, 09:41 AM

We use to make battery cables out of the cable we used for welders........

68 Suburban · 10-23-2003, 05:48 AM

I found out the problem.... The brand new starter was drawing over 200 amps!!! Not good.....lol

Blue Beard · 10-23-2003, 08:48 PM

Whats that strarter for a drag engine....?

ddsmith · 10-23-2003, 09:37 PM

Hey 68 Suburban,
How did you tell "The brand new starter was drawing over 200 amps!!! " Did you take it somewhere to check it or did you use a clamp on DC ammeter. I have a DC clamp on ammeter and I guess that is something it would be very useful for determining.

68 Suburban · 10-24-2003, 12:49 AM

Being the cheap ass that I am, I bought the cheapest starter Checker had. It cost me all of $31. I even talked them into giving me a lifetime guarantee, instead of the 3 year guarantee. The whole time I had it on, it would turn over a lot slower than my old starter. Then when the engine would warm up, it really dragged. Being the lazy ass that I am, I put off taking it out and returning it. Well last night, I got stuck somewhere while the starter cooled off enough to start the vehicle. I went to the closes Checker and told them what was going on. They told me I had to take it off so they could test it. Now I might be a Lazy and Cheap ass, but I am not a dumb ass :p , I went home took it off and took it to the 24 hour Checkers (11pm). They tested it and said, yes it is bad. They did not have the same starter in stock, so the manager upgraded me to the Autolite starter ($56), for free! This thing you tap the key and it fires right up. I think I have learned my lesson about being a cheap ass on something like this

Longhorn Man · 10-24-2003, 01:22 AM

Quote:

I think I have learned my lesson about being a cheap ass on something like this

You'd think so...but you'd be suprised.
I went through pretty much the same deal once...and I have a cheapie one on there now.

10-14-2003, 06:30 PM	#3
68 Suburban Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: From Chicago, Live in Phoenix, AZ Posts: 6,802	Well it is a brand new starter... And the old one did the same thing! lol __________________ Just sitting here contemplating contemplation.

10-14-2003, 06:39 PM	#5
68 Suburban Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: From Chicago, Live in Phoenix, AZ Posts: 6,802	It has been like this since I got the engine new. That was 3 years ago. I guess i will leave it alone. __________________ Just sitting here contemplating contemplation.

10-14-2003, 07:54 PM	#7
68 Suburban Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: From Chicago, Live in Phoenix, AZ Posts: 6,802	Well, when I did change that starter, I thought the possitive cable going down to the starter was skinny . Maybe that is it? __________________ Just sitting here contemplating contemplation.

10-14-2003, 08:17 PM	#8
crazy longhorn Fabricate till you "puke" Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ill Posts: 9,403	I agree, I would look at the battery & cables 1st.....if that doesnt get it, you might think about cutting back the initial timing, & getting a little more mechanical timing, or upping the vac advance to help the situation. Good luck,crazyL __________________ 69 longhorn,4" chop,3/5 drop, 1/2 ton suspension/disc brakes,1 1/2" body drop,steel tilt clip, 5.3/Edelbrock rpm intake/600 carb, Hooker streetrod shorties,2 1/2" exhaust/ H pipe/50's Flows , 6 spd Richmond trans,12 bolt/ 3.40 gears....

10-14-2003, 08:21 PM	#9
cableguy0 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Delta,Pa Posts: 14,950	i agree either run more mechanical or keep it how it is and get a high torque mini starter otherwise its gonna crank slow __________________ Owner of North Point Car Care in Dundalk Md. We specialize in custom exhaust on both modern and classic vehicles. We are a full service auto shop from classics to modern vehicles. Feel free to contact me with questions. I will give a 10% discount to any board member.

10-14-2003, 06:04 PM	#1
68 Suburban Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: From Chicago, Live in Phoenix, AZ Posts: 6,802	Timing Dilemma My truck likes the timing advanced far enough that the truck hesitates when starting. If I retard it so the truck starts easy, it does not run nearly as well. What I do is keep the timing advance and keep the kill switch off to the HEI until I start spinning the starter, then I hit the kill switch and it fires right up. Any other suggestions? __________________ Just sitting here contemplating contemplation.

10-14-2003, 06:28 PM	#2
RON WOODGEARD Resident Young Old Dude ! Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Nevada Posts: 1,948	The only time I have encountered that was, #1 my starter brushes were going bad, or something else in the starter. #2 my timing chain had slipped a tooth. Did it slip, or did I screw up on the install ??????? Ron

10-14-2003, 07:44 PM	#6
JimKshortstep4x4 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Muskegon,MI,USA Posts: 6,026	What size are your battery cables and what is the cranking capacity of your battery? You could be loosing cranking capacity if the cables or battery are undersized. Jim

10-14-2003, 09:39 PM	#10
RON WOODGEARD Resident Young Old Dude ! Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Nevada Posts: 1,948	Are you running an engine ground strap ?? If not, give that the first try.. . Replace your battery cables with good sized ones, and do a engine to frame ground strap. Ron

10-14-2003, 10:56 PM	#12
Hooter My other Love Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Castlegar B.C. Canada Posts: 4,085	um what do you have running for compression on the starter, and what kind of cam are you running in there? if you have done any radical mods, i would try retarding the cam a tooth, butthen again that would be the very last thing id want to do __________________ Castlegar B.C.The great white North (Canada Eh!) Hooter_5@hotmail.com First generation Monte Carlo club pictures of my life

10-21-2003, 06:30 AM	#13
68 Suburban Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: From Chicago, Live in Phoenix, AZ Posts: 6,802	I guess the problem was the skinny starter cable. I put a new 4 guage wire on, and it seems to start fine. I never had the problem with the old starter. I guess this one call for more power. __________________ Just sitting here contemplating contemplation.

10-21-2003, 07:24 AM	#14
tom hand CCRider Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Olive Branch,MS,USA Posts: 2,232	Even though the bigger cable makes it start better, you still have a problem that will shorten starter life. I would look at getting the HEI recurved so it runs correctly without running so much initial advance...that will be the true fix. __________________ 72 GMC Sierra SWB almost finished---- 84 Softail Olive Branch MS

10-21-2003, 09:41 AM	#15
Blue Beard Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 8,834	We use to make battery cables out of the cable we used for welders........ __________________ 1970 Chev CST 2003 Harley Fatboy 1975 Chevrolet Step Van 1956 Chev Bel Air 1977 Blazer 2WD For Sale $3000.00 1978 Blazer 2WD For Sale $7000.00 1978 Silverado 2005 Monte Carlo

10-23-2003, 05:48 AM	#16
68 Suburban Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: From Chicago, Live in Phoenix, AZ Posts: 6,802	I found out the problem.... The brand new starter was drawing over 200 amps!!! Not good.....lol __________________ Just sitting here contemplating contemplation.

10-23-2003, 08:48 PM	#17
Blue Beard Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Washington State Posts: 8,834	Whats that strarter for a drag engine....? __________________ 1970 Chev CST 2003 Harley Fatboy 1975 Chevrolet Step Van 1956 Chev Bel Air 1977 Blazer 2WD For Sale $3000.00 1978 Blazer 2WD For Sale $7000.00 1978 Silverado 2005 Monte Carlo



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10-23-2003, 09:37 PM	#18
ddsmith Glowing since 1978 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Lusby,MD,USA Posts: 532	Hey 68 Suburban, How did you tell "The brand new starter was drawing over 200 amps!!! " Did you take it somewhere to check it or did you use a clamp on DC ammeter. I have a DC clamp on ammeter and I guess that is something it would be very useful for determining. __________________ 66 Chevy C30 Stakebody Dump, PS,PB, 327cu in 71 Corvette Coupe 454 4 speed 69 Chevy C20 Custom Camper

10-24-2003, 12:49 AM	#19
68 Suburban Registered User Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: From Chicago, Live in Phoenix, AZ Posts: 6,802	Being the cheap ass that I am, I bought the cheapest starter Checker had. It cost me all of $31. I even talked them into giving me a lifetime guarantee, instead of the 3 year guarantee. The whole time I had it on, it would turn over a lot slower than my old starter. Then when the engine would warm up, it really dragged. Being the lazy ass that I am, I put off taking it out and returning it. Well last night, I got stuck somewhere while the starter cooled off enough to start the vehicle. I went to the closes Checker and told them what was going on. They told me I had to take it off so they could test it. Now I might be a Lazy and Cheap ass, but I am not a dumb ass :p , I went home took it off and took it to the 24 hour Checkers (11pm). They tested it and said, yes it is bad. They did not have the same starter in stock, so the manager upgraded me to the Autolite starter ($56), for free! This thing you tap the key and it fires right up. I think I have learned my lesson about being a cheap ass on something like this __________________ Just sitting here contemplating contemplation.

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