engine selection help

[Guyz55]

I am going to be in the market soon for a motor ...I have a 350 4 bolt block that I was going to have built by a local shop , but was stunned at the price .For a 383 stroker they want 8K and for a 350/350,,,6k . I don't need a 6k $ motor

I have been looking at turnkey crate GM performer 350's and the "Blueprint " brand by JEGS....

does any one have any experience or information on either ...or any advice where else I should be looking ...I haven't checked summit yet

thanx

[mongocanfly]

One word...if its a word..LS!!!

[nebdrummer]

Blueprint is great.

Ls is almost the way to go anymore for quick and easy power. Factory Efi Ect.

Junkyard 4.8 or 5.3, tear it down, have it tanked and cleaned, lap the factory valves, new seals, new head gaskets and bearings, rocker arm trunion upgrade, new lifters, new oilpump, and factory everything else. I bet you wouldn't have 2 grand in a complete rebuilt motor with Efi and all the power you would need for a great cruiser with great mpg.

[mr48chev]

That is assuming that he is experienced enough in engine work to tackle an LS engine.
That isn't one to learn on. I and a lot of others on here can walk a guy though redoing a regular small block over the phone because we have done so many of them.

Nothing wrong with buying a low mileage LS that is ready to drop in though.

I can't see paying a machine shop 8K to build a 383 when you can buy a new one over the counter at the Chevy Performance dealer for a full list price of 5862 and some dealers will beat that by quite a bit or you might be able to swing a buddy deal http://www.chevrolet.com/performance...l-block-ht-383.

That came from here http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/crate-engines.html
You can poke around on that page and find everything from 350 target motors for fleet service to fully built from the factory hot rod engines and all prices. If you find something you like take the part number and put it in a Google search and see if someone offers it for a decent discount. Don't forget to add the cost of shipping though as you can usually get it hauled in with a stock order with no shipping at the dealer saving a few hundred.

[Jesse Z]

You've gotta call around for some second opinions. I can get fully rebuilt mild performance long blocks from local machine shops for $1500.

[Hampshire]

If you have the knowledge/patience to deal with the electronics the LS will be a good choice if you can find the right one, ready to go. It would probably be the most economical way to go for a combination of power & economy of operation.

On the other end, first gen SBC (GM crate) is a good foundation that hitches to an auto or manual with relative ease (and, IMHO, they look the coolest). You can get some reasonable power at moderate expense, but a new GM crate with some mods will most likely cost more then a low-mile LS.

I've been back on the show circuit/cruise nite thing for a few years now & talk to dozens of owners about their rides. A good used LS or a modest sbc crate build seems to have the least problems. Big hp "built" motors can be a crap shoot - it all depends on what your local network can help you with.

For big HP builds, I would take a cue from the reality show featuring Kindig-It Design ( I know, they are hyper expensive) Thing is, they gave up on locally "built" motors. It was where they had the most problems. Now, they only use crates. If someone wants big HP, they throw a turbo on it.

[my56chevytruck]

My suggestion is just one word, CARBURETOR!!!

[jweb]

If all of your accessories are good just buy a GM long block. The price is good from summit or jegs and it's a quick swap.

Ls swaps are great I did one in my truck last year but the cost and time got out of control really fast. You will need to change your fuel system, possibly your driveline and exhaust too. Then a dyno tune when your finished which cost me $500. Then when you're done you have a used engine.

I'm not trying to start an LS swap debate. It drives great and I'm sure I could do it faster&cheaper next time. Just something to think about.

[72bowtiestepper]

Go with a GM crate motor. Thousands have been installed in trucks of all years.
Check Jegs...about $1500 with free shipping to your door.

[Speedbumpauto]

Originally Posted by Jesse Z

You've gotta call around for some second opinions. I can get fully rebuilt mild performance long blocks from local machine shops for $1500.

The operative word here is "long block." Add a decent intake=$250, Edelbrock or other carb=$300, MSD or Pertronix stand alone distributor=$275, plugs, wires, looms=$120, nice valve covers=$100, good water pump=$50, pulleys and brackets=$50-$200, depending on flavor, PCV and line + nice air filter=$100, fuel pump, filter and nice line to carb=$50, good oil and filter=$30 labor to install it all=$300. Now your $1,500 long block is $3,200 and that's with flat tappet cam which I won't hardly do anymore so add $900 for a quality hyd. roller retro fit.+ $250 for a decent set of roller rockers and now your $3,200 runner is $4,350, but it's approaching "hot rod" status. Throw in a nice stroker rotating assy.=$700 and now your "pretty sweet" engine is $5K+. It really depends, like always, on how good you want to go and how much money you have, but don't dangle that $1,500 long block out there because it's NEVER true.

[yossarian19]

I would buy a 5.3 from the junkyard, throw a 210 / 218 @ 0.50" cam in there and put it in as-is. An LS motor can go a long, LONG time without any work. No reason to go through the rings / bearings etc, especially on a hobby truck, if it ran when parked.
The factory EFI is hard to beat, ditto the intake & exhaust manifolds. Most of the aftermarket stuff that makes any additional power does so at like 5500 RPM and upward. Looks good though.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

One word...if its a word..LS!!!

^^^THIS^^^

I TOTALLY "get" the horror at the costs. you can do waay better with a carefully selected junkyard LS out of a lower mileage car/truck - and it doesnt have to be THAT low mileage!

I paid $8,000 for my LQ4 six liter, 4l85e transmission AND FLat Out Engineering C4 Corvette IFS. My engine came out of an 81,000 mile Isuu N series cab forward truck - the reason for the 4l85e instead of more common 4l80e.

This included a light hone of the block, new rings, cam, main & rod bearings, all gaskets, etc. Also included same leve lof refresh (more than rebuild) of the transmission. Just giving you real numbers so you have something to compare.

Best of luck!

[dsraven]

check out an insurance auction site like copart and buy a complete wreck. then you get everything you need and scrap/sell the rest. an ls engine is the way to go if you don't already have a small block in there. the wiring has been done so many times on youtube it would be easy to figure out and the thing will run without a dyno tune etc. when it is done and you have driven for a bit you can decide if you need to rebuild or dyno it or get a programmer. no need to rebuild one from the wrecker or from an insurance wreck if it was running when it was wrecked. the accesories cost would be close either way with small block or ls if you are starting from scratch.
check out pirate 4x4 for a great intro on the ls engines and what there are for different oil pan configurations and exhaust manifolds etc from different stock vehicles. that would make the conversion easier. these old trucks are pretty light so a stock engine, even a 4.8l, would be lots unless you want to tow a huge trailer or something.
good luck. have fun, post pics.

[mongocanfly]

I've got under 3000 in my lq9 swap..I just put it in stock with 107k on it

[1project2many]

Here's a different thought: IIRC you have a smallblock installed already. Someone has done the work to make that engine fit and play nice in the truck. I'm not sure how folks are equating "Buy a used LS" to "I'm pricing a new / rebuilt engine" without suggesting "Buy a used L31" as well. They're out there pretty cheap and with the right engine you'd need far fewer supporting parts. Cams can be swapped easily in a roller engine so a mild upgrade won't be a large expense. Buy an intake and electric inline pump, run the Q-jet you currently have, and you'll have as much power you need between beaches. In a previous thread you suggested that moving to a late chassis is something you might consider. If you're serious, save the big $$ for the chassis and install an LS engine at the same time.

[Jesse Z]

Originally Posted by Speedbumpauto

The operative word here is "long block." Add a decent intake=$250, Edelbrock or other carb=$300, MSD or Pertronix stand alone distributor=$275, plugs, wires, looms=$120, nice valve covers=$100, good water pump=$50, pulleys and brackets=$50-$200, depending on flavor, PCV and line + nice air filter=$100, fuel pump, filter and nice line to carb=$50, good oil and filter=$30 labor to install it all=$300. Now your $1,500 long block is $3,200 and that's with flat tappet cam which I won't hardly do anymore so add $900 for a quality hyd. roller retro fit.+ $250 for a decent set of roller rockers and now your $3,200 runner is $4,350, but it's approaching "hot rod" status. Throw in a nice stroker rotating assy.=$700 and now your "pretty sweet" engine is $5K+. It really depends, like always, on how good you want to go and how much money you have, but don't dangle that $1,500 long block out there because it's NEVER true.

Ha ha, horsepower cost money - how fast do you want to go?

[mongocanfly]

I guess I was assuming he was replacing the 6 cyl with a v8..if thats the position he's in I would look at the LS..you can buy a used LS with a 100k on it and still put another 200k on it..can't do that with many smallblocks.(at least none that ive owned).I had 285k on my 99 5.3 when I sold it and it still ran like new..never touched the engine except for a water pump..bonus the LS has mpgs and power is easy to make

[Speedbumpauto]

The new EFI engines just don't wear the cylinder walls like the old engines did. The cold start is managed so much better along with cruise fuel that they will go 200K without problems.

[1project2many]

I had 285k on my 99 5.3 when I sold it and it still ran like new..never touched the engine except for a water pump..bonus the LS has mpgs and power is easy to make

Hmmm... The 1999-2002 one ton cutaway vans in our bus fleet have gone quite a ways, then. We're currently running 5.7 / 4L80E vans with 350-400k miles on the original engines. Biggest problem for this engine ime was failing intake gaskets allowing coolant into the oil.

[whitedog76]

The LS are the popular item of the day. There's still nothing wrong with an older small block.

The GM 260 and 290 HP engines can still be had fairly reasonable, usually cheaper than a rebuild. So what if they don't get good mileage like an LS. You're building a hot rod aren't you?

Of course, there's plenty of older trucks, vans, and cars that can donate their entire drivetrain. If it runs good, nothing wrong with that either.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by whitedog76

The LS are the popular item of the day. There's still nothing wrong with an older small block.

This is absolutely true. What is also absolutely true is that there is nothing wrong with a well running flathead either. Doesn't mean you necessarily want one unless you want originality, already own a good running one, etc.

Otherwise, the LS is less expensive to buy, install and own, plus it performs better and lasts longer.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the original SBC, just saying time moves on.

[_Ogre]

58 truk has a gm ramjet 350 crate motor in it, every spring i turn the key and it starts without a hitch
350 hp, 400 ftlb torque, efi complete with everything except the front accessory drive
$6100 from speedway buy if you look around it is less



gm also has the e-rod 6.2 motor that is CARB certified jegs pricing is $8300
it comes complete with cats



i spent more on my motor and trans than i did the rest of truk, it has paid off in dependability
i would never build a vehicle with a carburetor, ogre hates carbs and truk gets 21 mpg
ogre hates his lawn mower, ogre hates his weed trimmer and ogre hates his chain saw

[mongocanfly]

Ogre make funny..haha

[dsraven]

so, just to be clear, guyz55, do you have a sbc in the truck or you just have the engine block etc and want to do a swap at some point? I understood ( just my brain assuming things prolly but lets clarify the scenario) you have the engine to do a swap but the truck actually has the inline 6 in it.
let us know so we can all stop bickering about whats the best, even though we all know it is the LS, haha.
if it was me,and I was starting from scratch, I would buy a good wreck and put an ls in it, or an ogre engine. something with fuel injection. no more stinkin finicky carbs or vehicles without cats for me. when i turn the key I want it to start, run smooth and not stink me out of the garage. thats just me though.

guys, kidding around with the comments. no snipers please. after all, this is hotrodding. the owner does what the heck he likes. it may not be popular but the owner likes it.

[Flysocal]

I bought a brand new 5.3 LS from summit a couple months ago for 2800. Looks to be discontinued now. I opted for a new motor vs rebuilding a junkyard for about the same cost. With a junkyard motor you can get all the accessories and wire harness so there are pros and cons. In the end I didn't want a used motor and didn't want to begin the slippery slope of rebuilding, camming, upgrading although I get it. Hell of a lot of fun for some people.