New Member with a question

[cbisson]

Hello,

I am a new member and have been looking off and on for a 67-70 C/K series 4X4. I always believed that eventually the right truck would come along. I have been hoping to find one as original as possible that hasn't been cut up inside or out, with original drivetrain, that includes a 4 speed transmission.

I think I may have found one. It is a 1969 C-10 4x4 SWB (65k miles) with what the owner claims to be the original drivetrain. It has a 307 and a 4 speed with a very low first gear. He says he is the 2nd owner and that the truck has spent its life in Phoenix AZ until 8 years ago when it was driven to the northeast where it is now. The truck was completely repainted inside and out by a local Chevy dealer 6-8 years ago. He claims that the truck was 100% rust free at that time and he has not taken it out on salted roads.

My question for you guys is what are some things I should be looking out for? Also, he is asking for $20k. If the truck checks out is this a reasonable asking price?

Thank you,

-Craig

[sick472]

Welcome to the club Craig! I am fairly new here too, but have had a few Chevy trucks for thirty years now.

The many bad places for rust on these old trucks are...

Under and around the battery (first place to go is the front portion of the fender well),
The front face of the hood,
Beneath the cowl vent,
Rocker panels (beneath the doors),
Cab corners,
Bed sides (especially above the wheel well),
and the lower portions of the tailgates (mostly on the bed side).

If the owner is giving it to you straight then the rust should not be an issue, but you can check the above areas for any signs of rust repair which may deflate his credibility should you find patch panel or bondo repairs. $20K sounds like a decent price for a true survivor of the years and elements. I would feel better, at that price, if all the numbers matched up. I'm no expert there, but you have come to the right place to research numbers. If you are into a "numbers matching" project, this might be the one. If you are just into the truck and it's looks and don't care about it's originality, I would bet you can find a better deal on a solid frame and body roller, BUT a lot can be said about an unmolested vehicle.

An old truck motor with 65K miles may or may not have a lot of life left in it. 100K miles used to be fairly expectable for the life of the engine depending on how it was used. I would like to see some cylinder compression numbers to help determine if it was really 65k or 165k (or worse).

Other places that can give you major headaches are...

The wiring harnesses,
Tranny condition,
Windows/glass,
and trim condition.

Hopefully this gives you some things to consider. Tell us more about your vision for the project.

[cbisson]

Thank you for the reply and information.

My vision for the truck is to retain stock or return to stock for the most part. The only changes I would make is maybe vintage air if it wasn't originally an AC truck. Also, I may do disk brakes up front if it doesn't already have them. It would not be a daily driver but more of a nights and weekend ride. Will almost certainly keep it out of the wintertime salt and snow.

How can I tell if its numbers matching? Are their numbers on the engine and tranny / transfer case that match it to that specific truck or will they just make it likely they're original based on date?

Thanks,

-Craig

[GASoline71]

A low mileage claim like that would need to come with proof for me to believe it.

Gary

[dfwright]

It sounds too good to be true, a real 4x4 Shortbed, low miles survivor, no rust, Arizona all it's life? Not saying it's not, but I would double-check every claim before I believed it.

[sick472]

Originally Posted by cbisson

How can I tell if its numbers matching? Are their numbers on the engine and tranny / transfer case that match it to that specific truck or will they just make it likely they're original based on date?

Like I said, I'm no expert here, but the engine, tranny, trans case, rear end will all likely have cast numbers that will determine an era, most of these parts will have stamped numbers or tags that would narrow down the year and usually the month. Some makes of automobiles will actually have the engine block stamped with a portion of the VIN, but I'm not sure about our Chevy's.

There are ID numbers on carbs that would be important to a strict numbers hobbyist. Likewise on the intake and exhaust manifolds. And I think the frame is date stamped up front on the top near the core support. I know the cab firewall is date stamped on my 72. I am sure there are as many numbers as you would like to get into, but there's my $0.02 (maybe not solely for Chevy's, but in general as far as "numbers matching" automobiles go).

At this point it's up to you to do the research as to where the numbers are located and how to decode them. I am sure some of the forums' more elite can help you with specifics.

[sick472]

One more comment...even if it's not concourse numbers matching, but has all original (to that truck) sheet metal that is cancer free, you will be ahead of the restoration game by a lot. Check into what a tailgate will cost you, or bedsides, and then read about the "fun" you would have locating an OEM NOS part OR fitting an aftermarket patch panel into your truck. It is pretty easy to look the gaps over on a vehicle and tell if any parts have been swapped out. The gaps will waver or get bigger and/or smaller as they go along. Keep in mind that the gaps in the 60s and 70s did not have as close of a tolerance as todays standards, but they should look good at 10 feet and anything that stands out as being out of wack could be due to a junk yard donor part. My old 72 is made up of sheet metal parts from at least 3 different trucks plus some aftermarket patch panels and the gaps tell the story plain as day. I consider my project the salvation of many trucks all rolled up into one, kind of like Frankenstein.

[scampr]

Welcome to the group !! Always nice to see a local show up. Sounds like you might have found a nice one but with the market being what it is there is a lot of profit to be made making fakes. I would say if your not feeling confident i would find a reputable body person to go look at it too.A good person can usually find any work done on it. As far as disc on the front i am pretty sure it wouldnt have that unless someone has done a lot of work to change it..A c10 wouldnt be to bad to update but a k10 would. Good luck

[jocko]

Welcome to the forum. Regarding the numbers matching question, the only thing you can really confirm on a 67-72 is to ensure the SPID, metal VIN tag on the cab, and partial VIN on the frame (fwd top rail in the vicinity of the power steering pump) all match. The frame VIN is usually only a serial # match - i.e. last 6 characters or 8 or something like that, of the overall VIN). Beyond that, all you can do is DISprove something as not possibly original. Engines were not VIN stamped in this era, but codes can tell you when it was built and what it was built for - but not if it's still in the truck it rolled off the line with. Most informative thing on the engine is the code stamped on the front passenger side of the block - just below the front face of the head. That number, especially it's last 3 characters, can tell you if it COULD be original, but not if it IS original to that truck. Pics if you got em!

One more note - 71 was the first year for disks, so if you're gonna do a swap, might be better to focus your search on a 71-72. The only major difference between 69-70 and 71-72 is the grille and drum vs disks, so if you prefer the 69 or 70 grille to the 71-72, but want disks, you can buy a 69 or 70 and upgrade the brakes (easiest, most common way for K is a 71-72 axle swap), or you can buy a 71-72 and swap the grille surround and inner grille. Which, of course, would be sacrilege... Ha. Just kidding. Also note that your current wheels, if original, will not fit over disks, only 71+ 6 lug wheels fit over a factory disk brake assembly (different inner profile to clear the caliper). Again, welcome to the forum.

One more, more note. As for fakes - people don't normally fake 307/4-speeds (no offense to anyone with that combo). The faking game normally applies to trim levels and/or engine combos. In other words, a Custom being advertised as a Super, i.e. the base level being advertised as the top level. Top dog trim level in 69-70 was CST (Custom Sport Truck) and it should have that on the SPID as well as on the fenders and outer glovebox door. Or an original 6 cyl is often represented as an original V8 truck after a swap, etc. The VIN will tell you V8 vs I6 (E vs I) and the SPID will tell you if anything above the base was ordered. Your potential truck's VIN should be something like KE149xxxxxx - and there should be no engine listed on the SPID at all and no engine callouts on the fenders below "C/10" or "CST/10". Also note that on the SPID, the wheelbase should be 115 and the Model # KE10734. If there is a 9 in place of the 7, the cab is from a lwb truck. Could be an original lwb frame shortening or a swb frame swap.

If you want an informed opinion on value, gonna need to see a pic or two. What someone claims as "all original" can be totally different from someone else thinks it means.

[cbisson]

Thanks to all for the responses and info. I'm not real concerned with the whole numbers matching thing as long as its period correct. Meaning I wouldn't want the drivetrain to be out of an 87 GMC for example.

Mostly interested in as original as I can get. I will then rebuild and or refurbish what's there as opposed to replacing it with something newer that doesn't belong on that truck.

I spoke with the seller again and asked him what it was that convinced him of the mileage and originality of the truck and he told me that it was the overall look of the truck and lack of wear on the seat, pedals, controls etc. The guy that sold it to him also put him in touch with the original owner in AZ who verified the history and mileage. I'm going to go see it tomorrow so we shall see.

[davischevy]

Look at the floor braces also. I have seen a lot of decent looking trucks with holes rusted in the floor braces.

If you can post some pictures on here you will get plenty of opinions and advice, but nobody will steer you wrong.

[cbisson]

A few pics (if this works)

[davischevy]

I see a good looking truck with nice paint and decent panel fit.

The two tone paint is wrong. Look at some other 69-72 two tone trucks. This one is painted like a 67. The white should be on the door window frame, and around the windshield.

The firewall should be body color, not black. I see a couple of open holes in the firewall and the wrong air cleaner. For that kind of money, I would think a little more detail under the hood would be in order.

Can you get some close ups of the rocker and under the cab?

[davischevy]

The sliding rear glass frame should be clear anodized.

[clay68c10]

Looks nice, the 2 tone is 67 style as davischevy pointed out. I’m considering painting my 68 like that. Not correct for the year, but not a deal killer at all.
I like it and would definitely go look at it.
Bring a magnet and check for thick filler in the usual areas. Definitely check the drip rail for new seam sealer and the wiring gutter on the firewall.
Also check all the VIN and SPID info to make sure it jives.
Good luck, it looks like a nice one.

[cbisson]

I just got back from looking at the truck. It is nice for sure, and solid for the year but in my opinion its not 20k nice. Inner fender under battery is rotted out. There were cuts in the drivers side inner fender where either a power steering box was added or the inner fender was replaced with one that didn't have a recess cut into it for the PS lines. Underneath was very good in terms of rust but it did look like there was rust repaired on the back side of the rocker panels. Bottoms of the doors looked very good. Panel fit was not great but OK. The tape line for the 2 tone paint job was pretty choppy and the new weather stripping was glued on sloppily. Cab mounts and bed mounts were dry and cracked and the truck had that sway back look where the cab alignment to the bed makes it look like the truck is sagging. The transmission and transfer case were both weeping gear oil which wasn't a big surprise but will need to be addressed. Wiring is original as far as I can tell and looks pretty good. In my opinion, there's about 5-7k worth of work needed to make it a 20k truck. I think it would make a great occasional driver and be a great start for a full restoration project but for me personally starting out at 20k is a deal breaker. I didn't make an offer because I don't think the seller would appreciate the 12k number I had in mind.

[davischevy]

Originally Posted by cbisson

I just got back from looking at the truck. It is nice for sure, and solid for the year but in my opinion its not 20k nice. Inner fender under battery is rotted out. There were cuts in the drivers side inner fender where either a power steering box was added or the inner fender was replaced with one that didn't have a recess cut into it for the PS lines. Underneath was very good in terms of rust but it did look like there was rust repaired on the back side of the rocker panels. Bottoms of the doors looked very good. Panel fit was not great but OK. The tape line for the 2 tone paint job was pretty choppy and the new weather stripping was glued on sloppily. Cab mounts and bed mounts were dry and cracked and the truck had that sway back look where the cab alignment to the bed makes it look like the truck is sagging. The transmission and transfer case were both weeping gear oil which wasn't a big surprise but will need to be addressed. Wiring is original as far as I can tell and looks pretty good. In my opinion, there's about 5-7k worth of work needed to make it a 20k truck. I think it would make a great occasional driver and be a great start for a full restoration project but for me personally starting out at 20k is a deal breaker. I didn't make an offer because I don't think the seller would appreciate the 12k number I had in mind.

I can tell you from experience, whatever you think you will spend later, double it.

Your $12K would be my number.

[cbisson]

Thanks to you all for your advice on things to look for etc. If anyone wants a link to the Craigslist add just let me know and I'll post it up. As I said, I never made an offer because I could tell the seller believes he has a real gem, and second because I'm not looking for a project. I'm willing to pay for a truck that's had most of the issues dealt with. One of you guys may be able to haggle him down a bit and get yourself a great start on a full resto project.

[davischevy]

Here's one. It has some non original things, such as mirrors and body colored inner fenders and dash. The front hubs don't look like lockouts, which would make me question the year of drivetrain.

https://fayar.craigslist.org/cto/d/1...437000323.html

[davischevy]

Drivetrain is definitely in question.