Hotwired truck, Now won't start normal!!!! - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

jorgensensc · 11-04-2003, 03:47 PM

Heres the story:
I left my keys in Texas, Flew back to California. Got Roadside assistance to get me into the truck, made sure I watched where the wires connect on the back of the ignition (there is no harness). Hotwired the truck, no problem, put all the wires back where they came off of (exactly, yes I'm positive), accessories work, but when I try and start the truck, it will crank but won't start. I verified it was wired right by the wiring diagram and by tracing wires. The minute I put the key in run position, and take the purple (starter) wire and touch the red (battery) wire still hooked to the ignition, she fires right up!! Perfect!!! I never had a problem before I pulled the wires. One thing to note is that while I try and crank the truck (hooked up normally) it tries and tries and then the starter makes a crazy screeching noise. I pull the wire and touch it to the red (battery) wire and it starts right up and doesn't make the noise at all.
Is the ignition switch bad?
Is it coincidence or did I F$%# something up?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!! I'm getting tired of crawling under the dash and hotwiring my truck when I have the keys!!!
Thanks,
Shawn

jorgensensc · 11-08-2003, 04:42 AM

Replaced the ignition switch yesterday, same problem!!!! I'm soooooo frustrated. Any advice would be great. Please folks, don't make me beg

ZOOMY · 11-08-2003, 08:03 AM

Make sure the wires on the pass. fender junction box are all there and tight, especially the red one from the positive battery post to that junction block. Tug on them to make sure the crimps are OK. Make sure there's no corrosion at the firewall connector. If you still have points ignition, check the resistor wire from the starter.

jorgensensc · 11-08-2003, 04:37 PM

Zoomy,
Thanks for the reply. Checked the wires, all tight. I've got HEI, and I checked the connection there, it's good too!! ARGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

jmanz69 · 11-08-2003, 05:50 PM

Sounds like you have no ignition voltage going to the coil during crank. Your pink wire should remain hot during crank, if not, then that's your problem. If you have a meter or even a test light, you can check it. It seems that when it's in the run position, and you touch the purple (starter) wire to the battery, it works, correct? Make sure your pink (ignition) wire is staying on during crank. You may have inadvertently mixed up the ignition and accessory wires. Your accessory wire should go dead during crank. This should mean that your blower motor will turn off while you are cranking.

Good luck.

*Randy70C-10* · 11-08-2003, 09:33 PM

What he said... I do have a question though, are you sure that you didn't burn up the ignition module when you hot wired it?

jmanz69 · 11-08-2003, 11:03 PM

I doubt he burned anything up. Since it still starts, it just seems to be losing it's 12 volts during crank. I think there is something not reconnected right at the switch. He needs to check to be very sure he has 12 volts during crank on the wire going to the HEI coil.

jorgensensc · 11-08-2003, 11:20 PM

I checked what you said, here's what I got:

12 volts on pink wire, even while cranking
11.47 volts on red wire when not cranking
12.01 volts on red wire while cranking

Yes the blower stops while cranking.

I have 12 violts going to the HEI also.
I redid all of the connections going to the ignition switch.

I does turn over, but it is very wierd. When it will start is when you have given up cranking and just as you let go of the key to put in the run position it kinda sputters and seems to catch and start running.
Do you think the timing got screwed up somehow???
My distributer is tight and has not moved.
I appreciate all of y'alls help!!!!!!

BtnkBndt · 11-08-2003, 11:41 PM

Sounds like its getting fire when you stop cranking (run position). Sort of deiseling. Have you pulled a wire off a plug and checked for fire when you crank it?

RussTburb · 11-08-2003, 11:56 PM

If memory serves, there is two circuits in the ignition module one for run, one for crank. I would strongly advise a new or "known good" HEI module. Oh yeah are checking for voltage with a meter or with a test light? In this problem I would use a test light on the power to coil and see when the light lights. (clip end to ground).

jorgensensc · 11-09-2003, 12:03 AM

BtnkBndt,
That is exactly what it sounds like, kinda dieseling, then catching. I haven't checked the spark plugs, I will do that next. What a coincedence that it would start this right after I hotwire it. I don't have a 'known good' hei, I will have to try and find one.

jorgensensc · 11-09-2003, 12:29 AM

RussTburb,
I am using a meter, but i can have someone crank while I check the readings. It should have power when the ignition is in the run position, right? Also in the crank position, right?

jmanz69 · 11-09-2003, 01:09 AM

Correct on the having power in both positions. You should have power to the ignition at all times.

jorgensensc · 11-09-2003, 01:11 AM

Why would it start as I let off on the ignition?? It makes no sense to me.

BtnkBndt · 11-09-2003, 02:32 AM

Because the cylinders have fuel and when you go from the start to run position one of the plugs fires and it slowly begins to run.

Your just not getting fire in the start position for some reason. A quick fix to get you going would be a momentary pushbutton switch mounted under the dash to turn the starter. Just put the ignition to run and hit the button.

dinnut · 11-09-2003, 02:56 AM

BtnkBndt that is exactly what i think is happening. he is spinning it but no power in the crank position so when he puts it in the run position it gives power to the cylinders and starts firing.

jorgensensc · 11-09-2003, 04:57 AM

I checked the voltage off of the ignition switch and to te distributor during crank and it is 12.07. I still haven't done the spark plug test (mentioned above). I will let you know about that one soon.

*Phillip Johnson* · 11-09-2003, 05:26 AM

In all my years, all my starting problems are with the purple wire right at the firewall. Once Ive run a NEW wire to the ign. switch, the problems go away like magic! I too hate to have to start my truck with a screwdriver. The truck I sold to NU2-72 had a Ford solinoid switch on the fender well from the owner I bought it from. At first I thought, "thats weard" but I think I may be installing it that way on my big block . It sure makes jump starts, bumping the starter when wanting top dead center, or anything else easier when you dont have to crawl under the truck to turn the motor over.. Just my 5.37 cents worth

ZOOMY · 11-09-2003, 05:29 AM

I know you have HEI, but back when the truck had points, there was a wire that supplied 12 Volts to the coil during cranking. After it started, the resistor wire supplied a lower voltage to keep from burning the points quickly. If that 12 volt wire (ON A POINT SYSTEM) was broken, it would act just like your truck does now. If I remember correctly, that 12 V. wire ran from the starter solenoid up to the coil, so that when the solenoid was engaged there was 12 V to the coil. Once the start position was released the resistor wire supplid the lower voltage to the coil. The resistor wire came from the "ignition on" part of the switch. I don't know if this helps or not.....Zoomy

jorgensensc · 11-12-2003, 02:13 AM

I've now replaced the cap, rotor, coil and checked the starter. Could the ignition module be causing this problem? (like Randy70C-10 said earlier) I tried to otwire it the oter day and it started doing the same problem then too. The only thing left is the ignition module, capacitor, and pickup coil. What do y'all think?

jose · 11-12-2003, 02:28 AM

Sounds like your module pickup coils do go bad but rarely . You should take the module of and take it to a parts store where they check them at no charge and find out . I took 3 modules to auto zone and they checked for free and only one turned out to be good . They can also check the coil and see if its good or bad . Jose

jose · 11-12-2003, 02:36 AM

Oh i forgot to mention that some times those two little wires that go to the pickup coil . Well some times they get frayed and rub against metal and for sure your rig won't start might be some thing for you to check . Jose

jorgensensc · 11-12-2003, 02:39 AM

Thanks jose!!!!
I talked to my Dad on the phone today and he said the same thing. He said that sometimes the modules don't work when they get hot, but work fine when cold. (Not my problem though) He warned me that his module tested good, but didn't work once installed and driven. The machines don't heat the coil, so he spent days hunting down the same problem. Finally he replaced it and it worked great!!!!
Shawn

jose · 11-12-2003, 02:51 AM

Your Dad prolly owned a f%&d . Some of them would get hot and just die and start up again when they cooled of . Chevs tend to just go out and stay out with out any warning .

jorgensensc · 11-12-2003, 02:56 AM

Truthfully it is a '88 Chevy Silverado 1500. The first new truck he ever bought (in '87) It still runs and passes smog, but he has had a series of problems from the get go, but we still love Chevy!!!

11-04-2003, 03:47 PM	#1
jorgensensc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cypress, Tx Posts: 4,005	Hotwired truck, Now won't start normal!!!! Heres the story: I left my keys in Texas, Flew back to California. Got Roadside assistance to get me into the truck, made sure I watched where the wires connect on the back of the ignition (there is no harness). Hotwired the truck, no problem, put all the wires back where they came off of (exactly, yes I'm positive), accessories work, but when I try and start the truck, it will crank but won't start. I verified it was wired right by the wiring diagram and by tracing wires. The minute I put the key in run position, and take the purple (starter) wire and touch the red (battery) wire still hooked to the ignition, she fires right up!! Perfect!!! I never had a problem before I pulled the wires. One thing to note is that while I try and crank the truck (hooked up normally) it tries and tries and then the starter makes a crazy screeching noise. I pull the wire and touch it to the red (battery) wire and it starts right up and doesn't make the noise at all. Is the ignition switch bad? Is it coincidence or did I F$%# something up? Any help would be greatly appreciated!! I'm getting tired of crawling under the dash and hotwiring my truck when I have the keys!!! Thanks, Shawn __________________ 1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE

11-08-2003, 04:42 AM	#2
jorgensensc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cypress, Tx Posts: 4,005	Update..... Replaced the ignition switch yesterday, same problem!!!! I'm soooooo frustrated. Any advice would be great. Please folks, don't make me beg __________________ 1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE

11-08-2003, 08:03 AM	#3
ZOOMY Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: WIS Posts: 1,752	wiring Make sure the wires on the pass. fender junction box are all there and tight, especially the red one from the positive battery post to that junction block. Tug on them to make sure the crimps are OK. Make sure there's no corrosion at the firewall connector. If you still have points ignition, check the resistor wire from the starter.

11-08-2003, 04:37 PM	#4
jorgensensc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cypress, Tx Posts: 4,005	Zoomy, Thanks for the reply. Checked the wires, all tight. I've got HEI, and I checked the connection there, it's good too!! ARGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! __________________ 1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE

11-08-2003, 11:20 PM	#8
jorgensensc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cypress, Tx Posts: 4,005	I checked what you said, here's what I got: 12 volts on pink wire, even while cranking 11.47 volts on red wire when not cranking 12.01 volts on red wire while cranking Yes the blower stops while cranking. I have 12 violts going to the HEI also. I redid all of the connections going to the ignition switch. I does turn over, but it is very wierd. When it will start is when you have given up cranking and just as you let go of the key to put in the run position it kinda sputters and seems to catch and start running. Do you think the timing got screwed up somehow??? My distributer is tight and has not moved. I appreciate all of y'alls help!!!!!! __________________ 1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE

11-08-2003, 05:50 PM	#5
jmanz69 Careful, they attack... Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Waterford, MI, USA Posts: 1,107	Sounds like you have no ignition voltage going to the coil during crank. Your pink wire should remain hot during crank, if not, then that's your problem. If you have a meter or even a test light, you can check it. It seems that when it's in the run position, and you touch the purple (starter) wire to the battery, it works, correct? Make sure your pink (ignition) wire is staying on during crank. You may have inadvertently mixed up the ignition and accessory wires. Your accessory wire should go dead during crank. This should mean that your blower motor will turn off while you are cranking. Good luck.

11-08-2003, 09:33 PM	#6
Randy70C-10 Account Suspended Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Virginia Beach, Va. U.S.A. Posts: 15,320	What he said... I do have a question though, are you sure that you didn't burn up the ignition module when you hot wired it?

11-08-2003, 11:03 PM	#7
jmanz69 Careful, they attack... Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Waterford, MI, USA Posts: 1,107	I doubt he burned anything up. Since it still starts, it just seems to be losing it's 12 volts during crank. I think there is something not reconnected right at the switch. He needs to check to be very sure he has 12 volts during crank on the wire going to the HEI coil.

11-08-2003, 11:41 PM	#9
BtnkBndt Pennyless Fool Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Forney,Tx Posts: 439	Sounds like its getting fire when you stop cranking (run position). Sort of deiseling. Have you pulled a wire off a plug and checked for fire when you crank it?

11-08-2003, 11:56 PM	#10
RussTburb Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Blaine,Wa. U.S.A Posts: 261	If memory serves, there is two circuits in the ignition module one for run, one for crank. I would strongly advise a new or "known good" HEI module. Oh yeah are checking for voltage with a meter or with a test light? In this problem I would use a test light on the power to coil and see when the light lights. (clip end to ground). __________________ "Red-heads not war-heads, Blondes, not bombs, Brunettes, not fighter jets!" Fligh of the Choncords 72 burb 3/4 ton 2wd 06 2500 suburban 8.1L 4x4 84 chev 4x4 diesel 96 Geo Metro with the 4cylbb, lol! Almost 300k just won't die! 89 Honda Civic, runs on the smell of an oily rag! 2008 Aerolite 26qs Travel Trailer (aka "THE BARN") Last edited by RussTburb; 11-08-2003 at 11:59 PM.

11-09-2003, 12:03 AM	#11
jorgensensc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cypress, Tx Posts: 4,005	BtnkBndt, That is exactly what it sounds like, kinda dieseling, then catching. I haven't checked the spark plugs, I will do that next. What a coincedence that it would start this right after I hotwire it. I don't have a 'known good' hei, I will have to try and find one. __________________ 1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE

11-09-2003, 12:29 AM	#12
jorgensensc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cypress, Tx Posts: 4,005	RussTburb, I am using a meter, but i can have someone crank while I check the readings. It should have power when the ignition is in the run position, right? Also in the crank position, right? __________________ 1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE

11-09-2003, 01:09 AM	#13
jmanz69 Careful, they attack... Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Waterford, MI, USA Posts: 1,107	Correct on the having power in both positions. You should have power to the ignition at all times.

11-09-2003, 01:11 AM	#14
jorgensensc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cypress, Tx Posts: 4,005	Why would it start as I let off on the ignition?? It makes no sense to me. __________________ 1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE

11-09-2003, 02:32 AM	#15
BtnkBndt Pennyless Fool Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Forney,Tx Posts: 439	Because the cylinders have fuel and when you go from the start to run position one of the plugs fires and it slowly begins to run. Your just not getting fire in the start position for some reason. A quick fix to get you going would be a momentary pushbutton switch mounted under the dash to turn the starter. Just put the ignition to run and hit the button.



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11-09-2003, 02:56 AM	#16
dinnut Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: missouri city, tx Posts: 4,486	BtnkBndt that is exactly what i think is happening. he is spinning it but no power in the crank position so when he puts it in the run position it gives power to the cylinders and starts firing. __________________ 70 longbed 496/th400/Ford 9"

11-09-2003, 04:57 AM	#17
jorgensensc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cypress, Tx Posts: 4,005	I checked the voltage off of the ignition switch and to te distributor during crank and it is 12.07. I still haven't done the spark plug test (mentioned above). I will let you know about that one soon. __________________ 1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE

11-09-2003, 05:26 AM	#18
Phillip Johnson Account Suspended Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Grants Pass, Oregon Posts: 1,579	In all my years, all my starting problems are with the purple wire right at the firewall. Once Ive run a NEW wire to the ign. switch, the problems go away like magic! I too hate to have to start my truck with a screwdriver. The truck I sold to NU2-72 had a Ford solinoid switch on the fender well from the owner I bought it from. At first I thought, "thats weard" but I think I may be installing it that way on my big block . It sure makes jump starts, bumping the starter when wanting top dead center, or anything else easier when you dont have to crawl under the truck to turn the motor over.. Just my 5.37 cents worth

11-09-2003, 05:29 AM	#19
ZOOMY Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: WIS Posts: 1,752	POINTS I know you have HEI, but back when the truck had points, there was a wire that supplied 12 Volts to the coil during cranking. After it started, the resistor wire supplied a lower voltage to keep from burning the points quickly. If that 12 volt wire (ON A POINT SYSTEM) was broken, it would act just like your truck does now. If I remember correctly, that 12 V. wire ran from the starter solenoid up to the coil, so that when the solenoid was engaged there was 12 V to the coil. Once the start position was released the resistor wire supplid the lower voltage to the coil. The resistor wire came from the "ignition on" part of the switch. I don't know if this helps or not.....Zoomy

11-12-2003, 02:13 AM	#20
jorgensensc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cypress, Tx Posts: 4,005	I've now replaced the cap, rotor, coil and checked the starter. Could the ignition module be causing this problem? (like Randy70C-10 said earlier) I tried to otwire it the oter day and it started doing the same problem then too. The only thing left is the ignition module, capacitor, and pickup coil. What do y'all think? __________________ 1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE

11-12-2003, 02:28 AM	#21
jose Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Salem , Oregon 97301 Posts: 1,796	Sounds like your module pickup coils do go bad but rarely . You should take the module of and take it to a parts store where they check them at no charge and find out . I took 3 modules to auto zone and they checked for free and only one turned out to be good . They can also check the coil and see if its good or bad . Jose __________________ 68 GMC 4x4 SWB jose6772@yahoo.com

11-12-2003, 02:36 AM	#22
jose Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Salem , Oregon 97301 Posts: 1,796	Oh i forgot to mention that some times those two little wires that go to the pickup coil . Well some times they get frayed and rub against metal and for sure your rig won't start might be some thing for you to check . Jose __________________ 68 GMC 4x4 SWB jose6772@yahoo.com

11-12-2003, 02:39 AM	#23
jorgensensc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cypress, Tx Posts: 4,005	Thanks jose!!!! I talked to my Dad on the phone today and he said the same thing. He said that sometimes the modules don't work when they get hot, but work fine when cold. (Not my problem though) He warned me that his module tested good, but didn't work once installed and driven. The machines don't heat the coil, so he spent days hunting down the same problem. Finally he replaced it and it worked great!!!! Shawn __________________ 1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE

11-12-2003, 02:51 AM	#24
jose Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Salem , Oregon 97301 Posts: 1,796	Your Dad prolly owned a f%&d . Some of them would get hot and just die and start up again when they cooled of . Chevs tend to just go out and stay out with out any warning . __________________ 68 GMC 4x4 SWB jose6772@yahoo.com

11-12-2003, 02:56 AM	#25
jorgensensc Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cypress, Tx Posts: 4,005	Truthfully it is a '88 Chevy Silverado 1500. The first new truck he ever bought (in '87) It still runs and passes smog, but he has had a series of problems from the get go, but we still love Chevy!!! __________________ 1972 C20 Suburban- Big Blue Betty '56 Chevy Bel Air Sedan- Frame up Restoration -What would you attempt to achieve if you knew you could not fail?- -I Refuse To Tiptoe Through Life, Only To Arrive Safely At Death's Door- R.I.P. EAST SIDE LOW LIFE

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