Lower Radiator Hose doesn't have a coil spring - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

spddm0n · 03-13-2018, 12:32 PM

Hey all -

What are you all doing for lower radiator hoses these days? I thought I'd replace the 49 year old hose (though still seems to be in tact) just in case, but I can't find one anywhere with the coil spring inside like the original I have. I've reading that the newer hoses are good enough now, to not soften with age, thus not requiring the spring, but I'm curious what you all are using.

I also thought about putting my spring into a new hose with the spring inside.

Thanks for any thoughts you have.

harpo231 · 03-13-2018, 12:56 PM

get a new hose ...

spddm0n · 03-13-2018, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harpo231

get a new hose ...

Uhhh...hmmm...
Yeah that's the plan, but what about the spring in the hose?
Posted via Mobile Device

liftlawssuck · 03-13-2018, 01:50 PM

You take the old spring out and put it in a new hose. That's the way it's always been.

superhondaz50 · 03-13-2018, 01:59 PM

My new hose had no spring. The old spring was rusted into oblivion, so I am going to run it without a spring.

spddm0n · 03-13-2018, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liftlawssuck

You take the old spring out and put it in a new hose. That's the way it's always been.

Ok. Great! Thanks for the explanation!! I was hoping it might be that easy.

Thanks again!!
Posted via Mobile Device

davepl · 03-13-2018, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superhondaz50

My new hose had no spring. The old spring was rusted into oblivion, so I am going to run it without a spring.

Why?

The spring servers a purpose, it stops outer air pressure from collapsing the lower hose when the pump is at high speed. GM wasn't giving parts away, if it wasn't needed, they didn't include it!

spddm0n · 03-13-2018, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superhondaz50

My new hose had no spring. The old spring was rusted into oblivion, so I am going to run it without a spring.

You might be able to find a similar length spring in a different hose that could be used in this application. I saw somebody doing this, but they had a small block chevy crate motor in their '71, so the part number wasn't a match for me.

spddm0n · 03-13-2018, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davepl

Why?

The spring servers a purpose, it stops outer air pressure from collapsing the lower hose when the pump is at high speed. GM wasn't giving parts away, if it wasn't needed, they didn't include it!

Do you know if the GM part is still available for these trucks? I am not having a lot of luck finding a good source of OEM GM part numbers for vehicles this old.

1972RedNeck · 03-13-2018, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davepl

Why?

The spring servers a purpose, it stops outer air pressure from collapsing the lower hose when the pump is at high speed. GM wasn't giving parts away, if it wasn't needed, they didn't include it!

Sounds logical, until you put a 15 PSI radiator cap on the system. You will NEVER collapse the bottom radiator hose with 15psi (or even 3 psi) in the cooling system.

Take the spring, throw it in the scrap, install the new hose, and be on your way.

spddm0n · 03-13-2018, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1972RedNeck

Sounds logical, until you put a 15 PSI radiator cap on the system. You will NEVER collapse the bottom radiator hose with 15psi (or even 3 psi) in the cooling system.

Take the spring, throw it in the scrap, install the new hose, and be on your way.

Interseting...Ok, I'm just putting a new cap on today. It's the standard 13psi. Once I installed a new thermostat, I'm now building enough pressure to cause the cap to leak.

Thanks!!

**HO455** · 03-13-2018, 03:36 PM

The hose collapsing problem mostly occurs before the engine is up to temperature. The cooling system has no pressure when cold. Reving the engine when cold is when the hose will collapse.

GASoline71 · 03-13-2018, 03:49 PM

Never had a problem with a lower hose with no spring in any of my rigs.

Gary

sick472 · 03-13-2018, 03:52 PM

The following link has an interesting read. I can not vouch for its validity however...

http://www.martiauto.com/faqfocus.cfm?qid=20

Quoted below...

"I need a spring for my radiator hose. Where can I find one?

The thought that a spring is needed in a radiator hose is a common misconception, that springs (pun intended) from two events.

The first is that many (although not all) lower radiator hoses on the production assembly line had springs in them. The reason for this was the method by which the assembly lines filled the cooling systems. To save time, a special vacuum/fill fitting was placed over the radiator fill connection (the place where the radiator cap would eventually be placed. A vacuum machine was turned on to evacuate most of the air out of the cooling system. Once completed, the fill portion was turned on to introduce the coolant into the system. This process avoided entrained air preventing the system from being completed filled. The purpose of the hose spring was to prevent collapse during the vacuum portion of the fill cycle.

The second part of the story that has led to the "I need a spring" myth is that some people have observed their lower hose collapsing when they rev the engine. This is the result of a clogged radiator or a cooling system that has not been brought up to standard operating temperature. If an engine is revved up while still cool, there is only atmospheric pressure in the system. It is possible for the lower hose to collapse slightly due to the water pump drawing water out of the lower hose faster than the gravity-fed water from the radiator replaces it. Once the engine has been warmed up, the coolant system operates under pressure and this condition doesn't exist in a properly maintained cooling system. However, if the radiator tubes have restrictions, as the engine is revved, the water pump pulls coolant from the lower hose faster than water can trickle past the clogged tubes. This can result in a reduction in internal pressure that would cause the hose to collapse.

Note that the events that lead to the thought that "I need a spring" are based on either an insufficiently warmed up engine or a clogged radiator. The spring does not take care of these events. It merely masks a symptom. If, after your vehicle has reached normal operating temperature but you experience a collapsing hose, have your radiator tested.

As an additional thought, have you ever wondered where your original spring went? Did you ever find bits and pieces of it scattered throughout the cooling system? Being made of ordinary steel, they corrode with time, small pieces gradually breaking off and either scoring the water pump impeller, tearing the water pump seal, or clogging the radiator. They aren't necessary for the functioning of a properly maintained cooling system."

All that said and you can still buy them from places like Summit.

**HO455** · 03-13-2018, 05:02 PM

Good instructive reply. Thanks Sick472.

superhondaz50 · 03-13-2018, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HO455

Good instructive reply. Thanks Sick472.

Agreed. I'm gonna try no spring. Worst case, I buy a spring lol

mike16 · 03-13-2018, 10:05 PM

it is needed. It does stop the lower hose from collapsing. it used to be they came with the hose. No longer. But they are needed. more so if you have a hi volume water pump. the presumption that a clogged radiator can be cured by a spring in the hose? presumes that the radiator is clogged. but new vehicles comming off the assembly line dont usually have a clogged radiator. I think that guy on Marti got it wrong. It is needed. the vaccuum generated by the Pump should be suckin fluid. not collapsing a lower hose. Just because a system works under pressure of any amount does not preclude it from generating a vacuum. all there really has to be is a difference in pressure. after all a clogged system working under 15 psi will create a vacuum but a clean system working under the same pressure does not? new fiziks?

yes they rust too. funny that.... but one solution is to get some .041 stainless safety wire. about 12 feet of it and double it over and twist it good and tight like with safety wire pliers. your 12 foot single strand doubled over becomes a 6 foot strand. twist that with a set of pliers or safety wire pliers and it will reduce in length further. then wrap it around a piece of pipe or broom handle slide it inside that lower hose and release it and it will expand to fit tightly inside the hose. Its stainless so it wont rust away and disappear.

sick472 · 03-14-2018, 08:51 AM

The concept of collapsing the hose when a clogged radiator is present merely means that the difference in pressure from before and after the pump is sufficient enough to suck the hose in because of a difference in pressure from before and after the cooling tubes of the radiator. These differences in pressure always exist, but are not always enough to collapse the lower hose. When the radiator gets gummed-up (or undersized) it will not allow the pump to draw as much coolant and the hose gives in.

A warmed up motor will add an over all pressure to the system which further decreases the magnitudes of the pressure differences. This will reduce the likelihood of collapsing a hose by giving the inlet side of the pump a bit more pressure to aid the flow of the coolant to the pump. This added pressure also helps to keep the hose expanded.

If your high volume water pump is collapsing your lower hose under warmed up conditions and a clean radiator, I would surmise that you could use a better flowing radiator to get everything you can out of the pump (or you don't need the high flow pump).

A spring will cure the symptom (collapsing hose), but does not cure the cause (high delta P's across the pump and radiator). The pump would still be starving to some extent just not sucking the hose in.

I am not really arguing for the idea of NOT putting the springs in, I think all my engines have them. They are a nice thing to have to avoid completely starving the pump (peace of mind) under the right/wrong conditions, but I would say that the are not necessary with a properly designed and maintained system.

**D.PASSMORE** · 03-14-2018, 10:02 AM

Look on Ebay, someone has the spring available. I bought one for my lower rad hose.

**randy.powell** · 03-14-2018, 12:03 PM

So I'm old school. If it had a spring, it will continue to have a spring whether needed or not.

$8 on ebay. Makes me feel better.

Regards,
Randy

Green Monster · 03-14-2018, 10:51 PM

Lower radiator hose springs are available from ebay user pacecarjeff.
They are being sold for $7 free shipping. You can use any of the springs advertised for GM vehicles. I purchased one last year and installed it in my 72 Blazer.

Look at this on eBay
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F361923116019

spddm0n · 03-14-2018, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Monster

Lower radiator hose springs are available from ebay user pacecarjeff.
They are being sold for $7 free shipping. You can use any of the springs advertised for GM vehicles. I purchased one last year and installed it in my 72 Blazer.

Wow!! Excellent! Thank you so much for your reply!!!

Look at this on eBay
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F361923116019

Posted via Mobile Device

toolboxchev · 03-15-2018, 12:08 PM

Buy a Goodyear Hose. I do not know the correct part number, but they fit correctly with no kinks or any binding.

Ask me how I know.

**leddzepp** · 03-15-2018, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1972redneck

sounds logical, until you put a 15 psi radiator cap on the system. You will never collapse the bottom radiator hose with 15psi (or even 3 psi) in the cooling system.

Take the spring, throw it in the scrap, install the new hose, and be on your way.

x2

spddm0n · 03-15-2018, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toolboxchev

Buy a Goodyear Hose. I do not know the correct part number, but they fit correctly with no kinks or any binding.

Ask me how I know.

Where can you buy one? I looked for it unsuccessfully.

03-13-2018, 12:32 PM	#1
spddm0n Registered User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 24	Lower Radiator Hose doesn't have a coil spring Hey all - What are you all doing for lower radiator hoses these days? I thought I'd replace the 49 year old hose (though still seems to be in tact) just in case, but I can't find one anywhere with the coil spring inside like the original I have. I've reading that the newer hoses are good enough now, to not soften with age, thus not requiring the spring, but I'm curious what you all are using. I also thought about putting my spring into a new hose with the spring inside. Thanks for any thoughts you have. __________________ 1969 Chevy C10 - 292 6-cylinder, 4 speed manual 1983 Chevy C10 Scottsdale 2WD Long Bed

03-13-2018, 12:56 PM	#2
harpo231 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Lincoln City DE Posts: 1,292	Re: Lower Radiator Hose doesn't have a coil spring get a new hose ... __________________ Stan 67 swb BLU MULE posted via flip-fone

03-13-2018, 01:50 PM	#4
liftlawssuck Registered User Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: MA Posts: 353	Re: Lower Radiator Hose doesn't have a coil spring You take the old spring out and put it in a new hose. That's the way it's always been.

03-13-2018, 01:59 PM	#5
superhondaz50 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Behind the Taco Bell dumpster Posts: 296	Re: Lower Radiator Hose doesn't have a coil spring My new hose had no spring. The old spring was rusted into oblivion, so I am going to run it without a spring.

03-13-2018, 03:36 PM	#12
HO455 Post Whore Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 11,350	Re: Lower Radiator Hose doesn't have a coil spring The hose collapsing problem mostly occurs before the engine is up to temperature. The cooling system has no pressure when cold. Reving the engine when cold is when the hose will collapse. __________________ Thanks to Bob and Jeanie and everyone else at Superior Performance for all their great help. RIP Bob Parks. 1967 Burban (the WMB),1988 S10 Blazer (the Stink10 II),1969 GTO (the Goat), 1970 Javelin, 1952 F2 Ford OHC six 4X4, 29 Model A, 72 Firebird (the DBP Bird). 85 Alfa Romeo If it breaks I didn't want it in the first place The WMB repair thread http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=698377

03-13-2018, 03:52 PM	#14
sick472 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Sedalia Mo. Posts: 1,131	Re: Lower Radiator Hose doesn't have a coil spring The following link has an interesting read. I can not vouch for its validity however... http://www.martiauto.com/faqfocus.cfm?qid=20 Quoted below... "I need a spring for my radiator hose. Where can I find one? The thought that a spring is needed in a radiator hose is a common misconception, that springs (pun intended) from two events. The first is that many (although not all) lower radiator hoses on the production assembly line had springs in them. The reason for this was the method by which the assembly lines filled the cooling systems. To save time, a special vacuum/fill fitting was placed over the radiator fill connection (the place where the radiator cap would eventually be placed. A vacuum machine was turned on to evacuate most of the air out of the cooling system. Once completed, the fill portion was turned on to introduce the coolant into the system. This process avoided entrained air preventing the system from being completed filled. The purpose of the hose spring was to prevent collapse during the vacuum portion of the fill cycle. The second part of the story that has led to the "I need a spring" myth is that some people have observed their lower hose collapsing when they rev the engine. This is the result of a clogged radiator or a cooling system that has not been brought up to standard operating temperature. If an engine is revved up while still cool, there is only atmospheric pressure in the system. It is possible for the lower hose to collapse slightly due to the water pump drawing water out of the lower hose faster than the gravity-fed water from the radiator replaces it. Once the engine has been warmed up, the coolant system operates under pressure and this condition doesn't exist in a properly maintained cooling system. However, if the radiator tubes have restrictions, as the engine is revved, the water pump pulls coolant from the lower hose faster than water can trickle past the clogged tubes. This can result in a reduction in internal pressure that would cause the hose to collapse. Note that the events that lead to the thought that "I need a spring" are based on either an insufficiently warmed up engine or a clogged radiator. The spring does not take care of these events. It merely masks a symptom. If, after your vehicle has reached normal operating temperature but you experience a collapsing hose, have your radiator tested. As an additional thought, have you ever wondered where your original spring went? Did you ever find bits and pieces of it scattered throughout the cooling system? Being made of ordinary steel, they corrode with time, small pieces gradually breaking off and either scoring the water pump impeller, tearing the water pump seal, or clogging the radiator. They aren't necessary for the functioning of a properly maintained cooling system." All that said and you can still buy them from places like Summit. __________________ He who is without oil shall throw the first rod. Compressions 8.7:1 1972 C10 1976 C10 (parts truck) 1985 K20

03-13-2018, 05:02 PM	#15
HO455 Post Whore Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 11,350	Re: Lower Radiator Hose doesn't have a coil spring Good instructive reply. Thanks Sick472. __________________ Thanks to Bob and Jeanie and everyone else at Superior Performance for all their great help. RIP Bob Parks. 1967 Burban (the WMB),1988 S10 Blazer (the Stink10 II),1969 GTO (the Goat), 1970 Javelin, 1952 F2 Ford OHC six 4X4, 29 Model A, 72 Firebird (the DBP Bird). 85 Alfa Romeo If it breaks I didn't want it in the first place The WMB repair thread http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=698377

03-13-2018, 10:05 PM	#17
mike16 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: bisbee, arizona Posts: 1,529	Re: Lower Radiator Hose doesn't have a coil spring it is needed. It does stop the lower hose from collapsing. it used to be they came with the hose. No longer. But they are needed. more so if you have a hi volume water pump. the presumption that a clogged radiator can be cured by a spring in the hose? presumes that the radiator is clogged. but new vehicles comming off the assembly line dont usually have a clogged radiator. I think that guy on Marti got it wrong. It is needed. the vaccuum generated by the Pump should be suckin fluid. not collapsing a lower hose. Just because a system works under pressure of any amount does not preclude it from generating a vacuum. all there really has to be is a difference in pressure. after all a clogged system working under 15 psi will create a vacuum but a clean system working under the same pressure does not? new fiziks? yes they rust too. funny that.... but one solution is to get some .041 stainless safety wire. about 12 feet of it and double it over and twist it good and tight like with safety wire pliers. your 12 foot single strand doubled over becomes a 6 foot strand. twist that with a set of pliers or safety wire pliers and it will reduce in length further. then wrap it around a piece of pipe or broom handle slide it inside that lower hose and release it and it will expand to fit tightly inside the hose. Its stainless so it wont rust away and disappear. Last edited by mike16; 03-13-2018 at 10:18 PM.

03-14-2018, 08:51 AM	#18
sick472 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Sedalia Mo. Posts: 1,131	Re: Lower Radiator Hose doesn't have a coil spring The concept of collapsing the hose when a clogged radiator is present merely means that the difference in pressure from before and after the pump is sufficient enough to suck the hose in because of a difference in pressure from before and after the cooling tubes of the radiator. These differences in pressure always exist, but are not always enough to collapse the lower hose. When the radiator gets gummed-up (or undersized) it will not allow the pump to draw as much coolant and the hose gives in. A warmed up motor will add an over all pressure to the system which further decreases the magnitudes of the pressure differences. This will reduce the likelihood of collapsing a hose by giving the inlet side of the pump a bit more pressure to aid the flow of the coolant to the pump. This added pressure also helps to keep the hose expanded. If your high volume water pump is collapsing your lower hose under warmed up conditions and a clean radiator, I would surmise that you could use a better flowing radiator to get everything you can out of the pump (or you don't need the high flow pump). A spring will cure the symptom (collapsing hose), but does not cure the cause (high delta P's across the pump and radiator). The pump would still be starving to some extent just not sucking the hose in. I am not really arguing for the idea of NOT putting the springs in, I think all my engines have them. They are a nice thing to have to avoid completely starving the pump (peace of mind) under the right/wrong conditions, but I would say that the are not necessary with a properly designed and maintained system. __________________ He who is without oil shall throw the first rod. Compressions 8.7:1 1972 C10 1976 C10 (parts truck) 1985 K20

03-14-2018, 10:02 AM	#19
D.PASSMORE One of the First Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: St. Augustine,FL. Posts: 4,059	Re: Lower Radiator Hose doesn't have a coil spring Look on Ebay, someone has the spring available. I bought one for my lower rad hose. __________________ DAVID PASSMORE ST AUGUSTINE ,FL ZIP 32084 '71 SWB K/10 CUSTOM DELUXE (Chili) '72 BLAZER K/5 Muscle Truck (Mule) '72 LWB K/20 CHEYENNE (Blackie)

03-14-2018, 12:03 PM	#20
randy.powell Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Bushwood, MD Posts: 510	Re: Lower Radiator Hose doesn't have a coil spring So I'm old school. If it had a spring, it will continue to have a spring whether needed or not. $8 on ebay. Makes me feel better. Regards, Randy

03-14-2018, 10:51 PM	#21
Green Monster Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Malvern, PA Posts: 951	Re: Lower Radiator Hose doesn't have a coil spring Lower radiator hose springs are available from ebay user pacecarjeff. They are being sold for $7 free shipping. You can use any of the springs advertised for GM vehicles. I purchased one last year and installed it in my 72 Blazer. Look at this on eBay https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F361923116019 __________________ Photo Gallery of 1972 K/5 Blazer CST

03-15-2018, 12:08 PM	#23
toolboxchev Registered User Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: 2nd left past the stump on a dirt road. Posts: 2,629	Re: Lower Radiator Hose doesn't have a coil spring Buy a Goodyear Hose. I do not know the correct part number, but they fit correctly with no kinks or any binding. Ask me how I know.



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