Electric Power Steering (64-66)... Anyone?

[61hawk]

I'm looking at putting electric power assisted steering (EPAS) into my '65 C-10 and was wondering if anyone has looked into it. I can find a bunch of stuff where Mustang owners have stalled it and it seems like the companies that make the kits have it for everything but 64-66 Chevy trucks. I've read all the articles about piecing kits together using Saturn and Prius parts, but am looking for real world experience.

[The Rocknrod]

I'm thinking you could do it and keep us all posted with pictures and we would follow along.

[61hawk]

Originally Posted by The Rocknrod

I'm thinking you could do it and keep us all posted with pictures and we would follow along.

If you don't know a guy who takes 2 hours to do something that should take 10 minutes... you do now.

[mongocanfly]

Only 2hrs?...you must be good....haha..

[BR3W CITY]

I'd suggest starting with "MR2 electric steering" and go from there. The MR2 was the OG donor for electric steering swaps on oddball stuff. I think someone is still making the pumps because I see WAY more people with them than I ever did MR2s lol.

[Clyde65]

FYI, 2014 and up silverados have electric ps too.

[The Rocknrod]

Originally Posted by Clyde65

FYI, 2014 and up silverados have electric ps too.

And Corvettes.

[61hawk]

Okay, now that I have my truck in my garage rather than 150 miles away I'm going to revive a dead thread. Apparently nobody wants to do the research or make expensive mistakes for me so I'll go ahead. I don't think I'm going to go the junkyard route. Pretty dead set on doing this so here goes (and I will be taking better pictures, this is just a quick cell phone photo to see what and how I can do this). Be easy on me, I'm just in the "I think this might work" phase and haven't actually started buying things.





This is a schematic and photo of one company's (Unisteer) drop in unit that utilizes an Ididit tilt column. I figured I needed some good base measurements and after asking about some specific measurements of the column I was surprised when they sent me the actual measurements. The factory column is about 5" from top of the column to the bottom of the cone. The tilt Ididit column is 7.5" so I should be able to push it 2.5" closer to the dash.





Now the fun part. I mocked up the factory brake pedal and steering column mount and quickly realized I don't have the room to keep everything and make this work.



So right off I'm seeing that I will need to go with a universal dash mount and have to figure out what to do with the emergency brake handle. I really wanted to keep that because unlike some I really like that handle.

It looks like if I eliminate the column and emergency brake bracket that I should have all kinds of room under the dash.

[The Rocknrod]

I've seen those. Should be interesting to watch.

[Rickysnickers]

Resized your photos

[roll_the_dice]

I talked to Epas performance about there electric steering a few months ago for my 64 GMC project. I didn't think I had to remove the emergency brake handle or anything...maybe I am wrong. I also love the look of the emergency brake handle and don't want to lose it. i am still thinking of using it.

[61hawk]

Originally Posted by roll_the_dice

I talked to Epas performance about there electric steering a few months ago for my 64 GMC project. I didn't think I had to remove the emergency brake handle or anything...maybe I am wrong. I also love the look of the emergency brake handle and don't want to lose it. i am still thinking of using it.

I've been thinking about it this morning. I think at worst, you could cut the bottom portion of the bracket where the motor may hit and possibly leave the emergency brake handle. That would leave three mounting bolts for the bracket which should be plenty to support the emergency brake handle. There's just not a lot of room under there to splice in an electric steering motor because the bracket takes about half the room between the dash and firewall.

I've been going back and forth on whether or not to section my original steering column and add in EPAS or other motor... or just order the drop in version from Unisteer. On the plus side, the drop in has tilt... which I set and never use on my other vehicles. A setup I'd like would be a drop in without tilt... it'd definitely be cheaper.

[61hawk]

I was able to get another photo with measurements from Unisteer, these are smaller than I thought. So that's good news.

[roll_the_dice]

Originally Posted by 61hawk

I was able to get another photo with measurements from Unisteer, these are smaller than I thought. So that's good news.

That's good! I realized last night my 64 GMC 1 ton project has the floor mounted emergency brake...so I won't have to modify anything...I was thinking of my 65 Chevy

[dayj1]

I put electric power steering in my ‘68 c10. At the time, no one really made a kit (if they even do now) so I rolled my own setup. It works well but it wasn’t cheap or easy. It looks stock when completely assembled. I made my own mount setup and, while it’s different than the original question, I assume it’d be similar for an earlier c10.

[61hawk]

What vehicle did you take your parts out of? Do you have any measurements of where you cut your tube and steering shaft?

It looks like you're using a power steering steering box, I was advised to go with a manual steering box because the parts internally are stronger. And since the steering is still manual with electric power assist.

[dayj1]

Originally Posted by 61hawk

What vehicle did you take your parts out of? Do you have any measurements of where you cut your tube and steering shaft?

It looks like you're using a power steering steering box, I was advised to go with a manual steering box because the parts internally are stronger. And since the steering is still manual with electric power assist.

The column in my truck is 09-13 Toyota Corolla. You'll hear/read that the "failsafe" mode for these columns is fine. Failsafe mode is supposedly about 45% of total available assist and it never varies from that level. It's what you get when you transplant a column/ecu and there are no other modules from the original car connected to them and it goes into sort of a "limp" mode with minimal assist. Maybe that works for a light car, but it does not work well for something as heavy as our trucks (and,yes, I tried it). For that reason, I used the ECU from a 2006-07 Yaris without ABS. To my knowledge, that ECU is the only one that doesn't require an ABS controller to vary the assist level. Instead, it varies the assist based on VSS (vehicle speed signal). Even the Yaris controller will go into failsafe without receiving an RPM signal from the BCM over the CAN network. So, I used a small custom controller that sends the BCM a signal every few milliseconds to tell it that the engine is running (i.e. send it an RPM signal).

In the pictures I posted, there was indeed a power steering box. The "it's too weak" argument doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but, with a relatively heavy vehicle, the tight ratio of the power steering box is just more than the columns we're talking about can handle. It's like having no assist at all. I tried a manual box too and, while you can tell the EPAS is helping, 6 turns lock to lock sucks. For my '68 I was in luck. Originally, '67-'68 used a ram assist type power steering. So, the correct power steering box for a '68 doesn't have any provisions for hydraulic assist at all. It's a manual box with 16:1 ratio. That's in between a "normal" manual box and a hydraulic power box. That was the sweet spot for me. I have no idea if there's a similar box for a '65 or if the '67-'68 box will work there.

[61hawk]

Originally Posted by dayj1

So, I used a small custom controller that sends the ECU a signal every few milliseconds to tell it that the engine is running (i.e. send it an RPM signal).

Would this be the same controller regularly called the "EBay controller"?

The steering column tube looks identical to the one on my '65 and would be interested in where you made the cuts. Also assume that you had to cut the steering column shaft to fit. I guess I need to start this all by getting an electric motor and go from there.

[dayj1]

Originally Posted by 61hawk

Would this be the same controller regularly called the "EBay controller"?

No, the "Ebay controller" has a knob that lets you dial in the amount of assist that you want. It might work for some, but it's not at all what I wanted. I want the assist to decrease as the vehicle speed increases. In other words, max assist backing out of a parking space, but minimum assist cruising down the highway. That's functionality build into all the EPAS ECUs. The problem is that, when they go into failsafe mode, they default to minimum assist and stay there. To stop the ECU from failing, it needs to "see" the body controller that it expects. I used this controller which connects to a laptop for programming: http://www.cananalyser.co.uk/candoauto.html I coded it to send an RPM signal to the EPAS ECU every few milliseconds on the CAN network. The ECU thinks it's talking to the BCM and doesn't go into its failsafe mode. If there is an equivalent for that in the aftermarket for conversions like we're doing, I haven't seen it.

Originally Posted by 61hawk

The steering column tube looks identical to the one on my '65 and would be interested in where you made the cuts. Also assume that you had to cut the steering column shaft to fit. I guess I need to start this all by getting an electric motor and go from there.

If you think about how the column mounts, you obviously can't mount the motor in front of the dash because you don't want to see it. You want it behind the dash and you'll quickly find that the pedal support is in the way. You'd have to clock the motor below the dash to get it to fit. Worst case, that'd be in the way of the pedals and, best case, you'd see it. I had to modify the pedal support to shorten it on the dash side and allow the motor to bolt directly to it. I also cut out the factory portion of the dash just below the gauge cluster where the column clamps in place and build back a custom clamping system for the column. That will allow you to clock the motor up where you can't see it. In any case, you definitely want it mounted very solid. I'd start by trimming away all the stuff you don't need and monting the motor. Then you'll know how much of your original column you can use.

[Gregski]

figure I'll add to this thread rather than staring a new one, here's my attempt at shoving a second gen Prius electric power steering into my '71 dime, maybe someone will find this helpful


Chevy C10 Prius Steering Part III

[88Stanger]

Very interesting....

I know that this is not a thread about Rack-n-Pinion steering, but that is what I put to help with steering. My motor and cam are not Power system friendly (brakes or steering) so I got the Bolt in Rack system, but this is interesting because it would also solve my issue. (Note: brakes are hydraboost)

[Jmason]

I’m doing an electric power steering pump

[61hawk]

Originally Posted by Jmason

I’m doing an electric power steering pump

Volvo? That's the direction I decided to go. If so I'd be interested to see where you mounted the pump.

[Jmason]

Originally Posted by 61hawk

Volvo? That's the direction I decided to go. If so I'd be interested to see where you mounted the pump.

Yeah doing the Volvo pump. Gonna mount it in the bed along with the fuel cell and ice box for the super charger

[Jmason]

Originally Posted by 61hawk

Volvo? That's the direction I decided to go. If so I'd be interested to see where you mounted the pump.

Yeah doing the Volvo pump. Gonna mount it in the bed along with the fuel cell and ice box for the super charger